BoxRec

The file Nero sent me is interesting and worth reading.

It's in PDF format so I can't post it here.

I have, however, uploaded it to a hosting site from which you can download it for free.

To view it you will need the adobe reader plugin which is free and available from a million places on the net (you probably already have it as I think it comes with the latest version of IE)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JDANEWCU

Now, how about some more reports from the rest of you????

Collins I told you I would never "edit" one of your posts again...I have broken my promise please forgive.

BoxBuzz wrote:Collins I told you I would never "edit" one of your posts again...I have broken my promise please forgive.

Thanks, mate. I wasn't sure how to make it clickable.

great read....

Collins2000 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Collins I told you I would never "edit" one of your posts again...I have broken my promise please forgive.

Thanks, mate. I wasn't sure how to make it clickable.

So what are your thoughts on the bout now? I thought it interesting how the ref said he actually heard "something snap" when LaMotta shoved Cerdan and thereafter was unable to use his left. Also how Jake was wailing away the whole fight with both hands with no hint of diminished power.(somebody wake Silkov. I think he just fainted).

But all that aside, what are your thoughts?

Collins2000 wrote:The file Nero sent me is interesting and worth reading.

It's in PDF format so I can't post it here.

I have, however, uploaded it to a hosting site from which you can download it for free.

To view it you will need the adobe reader plugin which is free and available from a million places on the net (you probably already have it as I think it comes with the latest version of IE)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JDANEWCU

Now, how about some more reports from the rest of you????

5 will get you 10 that Silkov is already debunking this report in his head before even reading it. "The LA Times?? What the hell do they know?! I read somewhere that their entire staff were French-Morroccans in 1949! They're Cerdan nuthuggers!"

BoxBuzz wrote:great read....

Thoughts?

The funny thing is that I used to buy into the whole LaMotta myth about a decade or so ago. The I did my research- with no bias towards Cerdan or anyone- and came up with the truth about the bout.

It proves nothing, its just another point of veiw. So Jake was still using the left hand, I never said he didnt use it... just because he used it doesnt mean it wasnt injured.
Still seems to me that Lamotta won on a retirement... or am I missing something!

Nero3000 wrote:The funny thing is that I used to buy into the whole LaMotta myth about a decade or so ago. The I did my research- with no bias towards Cerdan or anyone- and came up with the truth about the bout.

Whats the myth exactly?... noones denying that Cedan hurt his arm... what gets Lamotta haters is that he actually won the title and is recognised as a great fighter by some people and this is too much for certain whiter than white people with higher than thou sensibilities... all in all you really need to get a life mate... what has your 'research' on Lamotta actually uncovered?... Lamotta still won, end of story, ....you can't change that buddy... 8)

silkov wrote:

Nero3000 wrote:The funny thing is that I used to buy into the whole LaMotta myth about a decade or so ago. The I did my research- with no bias towards Cerdan or anyone- and came up with the truth about the bout.

Whats the myth exactly?... noones denying that Cedan hurt his arm... what gets Lamotta haters is that he actually won the title and is recognised as a great fighter by some people and this is too much for certain whiter than white people with higher than thou sensibilities... all in all you really need to get a life mate... what has your 'research' on Lamotta actually uncovered?... Lamotta still won, end of story, ....you can't change that buddy... 8)

The dying gasps of a shattered myth. Keep posting.

silkov wrote:It proves nothing, its just another point of veiw. So Jake was still using the left hand, I never said he didnt use it... just because he used it doesnt mean it wasnt injured.
Still seems to me that Lamotta won on a retirement... or am I missing something!

You've been "missing something" since this debate started. Like RESEARCH

Nero3000 wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Collins I told you I would never "edit" one of your posts again...I have broken my promise please forgive.

Thanks, mate. I wasn't sure how to make it clickable.

So what are your thoughts on the bout now? I thought it interesting how the ref said he actually heard "something snap" when LaMotta shoved Cerdan and thereafter was unable to use his left. Also how Jake was wailing away the whole fight with both hands with no hint of diminished power.(somebody wake Silkov. I think he just fainted).

But all that aside, what are your thoughts?

I loved reading it. Thanks.

Yes, the report gives no indication that La Motta was unable to attack with both hands throughout the fight. In fact, it makes reference to Jake constantly attacking with the left hook.

I agree, the reference to the referee hearing something snap is very interesting.

Unless the fellow who wrote it wasn't actually there and just made it up (and that has happened before) it certainly goes against some of the thinking in here.

I'd still love to see other reports and, ultimately, the fight itself.

According to my list, I do actually have it on tape (highlights) in Brisbane and as I will be up there in 2 weeks I will dig it out and watch it and let you know what I see.

Highlights of Jake La Motta vs Marcel Cerdan, Laurent
Dauthille, Eugene Hairston, Norman Hayes, Bob Murphy,
Billy Kilgore (40 mins) 1628

Nero3000 wrote:

silkov wrote:

Nero3000 wrote:The funny thing is that I used to buy into the whole LaMotta myth about a decade or so ago. The I did my research- with no bias towards Cerdan or anyone- and came up with the truth about the bout.

Whats the myth exactly?... noones denying that Cedan hurt his arm... what gets Lamotta haters is that he actually won the title and is recognised as a great fighter by some people and this is too much for certain whiter than white people with higher than thou sensibilities... all in all you really need to get a life mate... what has your 'research' on Lamotta actually uncovered?... Lamotta still won, end of story, ....you can't change that buddy... 8)

The dying gasps of a shattered myth. Keep posting.

How about you research the NYT view of the fight, or THE RING, or Boxing News.... is this the best you can come up with?..... after ten years???.... you still havent told me exactly what 'myth' has been shattered, despite your ludicrously pompous posing. I'm still waiting!...

I'm going to bed now, so you've got about 8 hours Nero to come up with this Myth shattering revelation I've been promised... 8)

Collins2000 wrote:

Nero3000 wrote:

Collins2000 wrote: Thanks, mate. I wasn't sure how to make it clickable.

So what are your thoughts on the bout now? I thought it interesting how the ref said he actually heard "something snap" when LaMotta shoved Cerdan and thereafter was unable to use his left. Also how Jake was wailing away the whole fight with both hands with no hint of diminished power.(somebody wake Silkov. I think he just fainted).

But all that aside, what are your thoughts?

I loved reading it. Thanks.

Yes, the report gives no indication that La Motta was unable to attack with both hands throughout the fight. In fact, it makes reference to Jake constantly attacking with the left hook.

I agree, the reference to the referee hearing something snap is very interesting.

Unless the fellow who wrote it wasn't actually there and just made it up (and that has happened before) it certainly goes against some of the thinking in here.

I'd still love to see other reports and, ultimately, the fight itself.

According to my list, I do actually have it on tape (highlights) in Brisbane and as I will be up there in 2 weeks I will dig it out and watch it and let you know what I see.

Highlights of Jake La Motta vs Marcel Cerdan, Laurent
Dauthille, Eugene Hairston, Norman Hayes, Bob Murphy,
Billy Kilgore (40 mins) 1628

The fact that he used the left doesnt mean it wasn't injured though... can you see a myth shattering revelation that Zero is talking about??!.... 8) and he spent ten years looking for it as well!

I'm off to bed now, I expect some more revelations in the morning Nero... it'd better be good cause so far you're not showing me anything new at all!...

silkov wrote:I'm off to bed now, I expect some more revelations in the morning Nero... it'd better be good cause so far you're not showing me anything new at all!...

*LOL* You're cute, Silkov. But I'll spare you any further embarrassment.

And as to where you were wrong, read your opening salvos on the original thread. All debunked.



"LaMotta almost KO'd him in the first round!" DEBUNKED
"LaMotta broke his hand in the second round!" DEBUNKED
"Cerdan quit in his corner!" DEBUNKED
"Ive seen the films!' DEBUNKED
"What evidence do you have you got that Marcel even hurt his shoulder?" PROVEN

Now get to the library like a good boy and do some research. I'll talk to you in a year or so. Toodles.

Collins2000 wrote:

Nero3000 wrote:

Collins2000 wrote: Thanks, mate. I wasn't sure how to make it clickable.

So what are your thoughts on the bout now? I thought it interesting how the ref said he actually heard "something snap" when LaMotta shoved Cerdan and thereafter was unable to use his left. Also how Jake was wailing away the whole fight with both hands with no hint of diminished power.(somebody wake Silkov. I think he just fainted).

But all that aside, what are your thoughts?

I loved reading it. Thanks.

Yes, the report gives no indication that La Motta was unable to attack with both hands throughout the fight. In fact, it makes reference to Jake constantly attacking with the left hook.

I agree, the reference to the referee hearing something snap is very interesting.

Unless the fellow who wrote it wasn't actually there and just made it up (and that has happened before) it certainly goes against some of the thinking in here.

I'd still love to see other reports and, ultimately, the fight itself.

According to my list, I do actually have it on tape (highlights) in Brisbane and as I will be up there in 2 weeks I will dig it out and watch it and let you know what I see.

Highlights of Jake La Motta vs Marcel Cerdan, Laurent
Dauthille, Eugene Hairston, Norman Hayes, Bob Murphy,
Billy Kilgore (40 mins) 1628

No problem. And now that you've helped me end this little debate with Silkov, out of thanks I'm offering to send you anything from the LA Times historical archives that you'd like to see. Just give me the date and fight or fighters and I'll send it to your exploding email addy(is it really just a temporary?).

For more sources regarding this fight, read the last 7 posts on the "what are ur top 15 middleweights" thread. I've bumped them up.

I dont really see what all the fuss is about really. So what if Cerdan hurt his arm in the first round, that doesnt mean he would have won the fight if he hadnt. If Cerdan would have been winning the fight up to the point that he could no longer continue then I could understand the whole debate.
Lamotta beat him period. There is nothing to suggest Cerdan would have won the fight without the injury or if they fought a rematch.
Historically Lamotta should be considered the greater fighter. He fought top quality opponents his entire career and beat better fighters than Cerdan did.

I'm inclined to agree with theone....so I better go back and think this through more carefully.

I'm inclined to agree with theone....so I better go back and think this through more carefully.

Dont really understand the jab. I dont remember us have many differing opinions on other topics.

I just missed you....havent seen ya around for a while. Actually your one of my only allies on this forum that believes that new fighters can hang with the older ones and that boxing is actually evolving. That's a hard sell around these parts.

theone wrote:I dont really see what all the fuss is about really. So what if Cerdan hurt his arm in the first round, that doesnt mean he would have won the fight if he hadnt. If Cerdan would have been winning the fight up to the point that he could no longer continue then I could understand the whole debate.
Lamotta beat him period. There is nothing to suggest Cerdan would have won the fight without the injury or if they fought a rematch.
Historically Lamotta should be considered the greater fighter. He fought top quality opponents his entire career and beat better fighters than Cerdan did.

Saying that LaMotta beat Cerdan is like saying Rocky Marciano beat Joe Louis.

Jake did fight the better opposition...and lost to lesser fighters. Cerdan lost 3 fights: 2 by disqualification. One by controversial decision(to top 10 contender Cyril Dellanoit, which he promptly avenged) and a one-armed battle with LaMotta, which he never got a chance to avenge.

Being able to go toe to toe with Jake LaMotta for 9 rounds without his best weapon(the left hook) suggests to me that he would beat him with two usable arms.

The fact that he was favored to win the fight and the rematch that never happened suggests that there were many others who felt the same way.