BoxRec

How would The Body Snatcher have done if he'd been in thrown into the mix with the fabulous four in the mid 80s? I'd see him fighting Duran, Hearns and Leonard at Light Middle and obviously Hagler at 160lb.

What would be your pick in each fight?

He would beat Duran at 154 or 160

Lose to Hagler

lose to Hearns

A pick'em against Leonard at 160.The ray that fought Kalule would beat him at 154.

At JMW I think McCallum beats Duran by something like 144-141. Survives an early beating from Hearns, and then stops him in the 13th round. Loses to Leonard by about 145-141, and at MW, he goes the distance with Hagler, but loses by perhaps 148-139.

J-C wrote:How would The Body Snatcher have done if he'd been in thrown into the mix with the fabulous four in the mid 80s? I'd see him fighting Duran, Hearns and Leonard at Light Middle and obviously Hagler at 160lb.

What would be your pick in each fight?

Beats Duran. Gets KO'd by Hearns. Hagler wins a TKO or UD. Leonard....that's a tough call. If McCallum's body attack could slow Ray down in the later rounds he could pound out a decision. Hardest one to call.

McCallum beats Duran by clear UD. He loses by UD himself to the other three. Hearns hurts him more than the others and most likely drops him once or twice along the way.

How about Barkley?

Barkley would be a very easy UD win for McCallum. "The Blade" maybe the greatest over achiever of all time.

Would the Duran who beat Moore have lost to McCallum? I don't think so. McCallum was a good fighter...but great? He struggled with Mannion, Minichillo and even Curry. When he moved up, he lost to Kalambay. A point deducted from Herol Graham cost Bomber a draw with The Bodysnatcher in 1989.
I really believe Duran would have licked McCallum at light-middle.

Moore was extremely ill and should not have been in the ring that night. HBO's real sports had a great segment on one of there shows about the fight. Duran did nothing spectacular at the weight unless you count getting spectacularly ko'd by Hearns, spectacularly outboxed by Benitez and spectacularly upset by Kirkland Laing.

Of coarse now I expect all the Duran apologist to rationally explain away all these poor performances.

theone wrote:Moore was extremely ill and should not have been in the ring that night. HBO's real sports had a great segment on one of there shows about the fight. Duran did nothing spectacular at the weight unless you count getting spectacularly ko'd by Hearns, spectacularly outboxed by Benitez and spectacularly upset by Kirkland Laing.

Of coarse now I expect all the Duran apologist to rationally explain away all these poor performances.

Are we supposed to believe a healthy Moore would have beaten Duran?

Are we supposed to believe a healthy Moore would have beaten Duran?

Not sure really. But I dont think the result of the actual fight should serve as evidence of Duran being superior to McCallum at Jr Middle.

theone where do you rate Duran as a lightweight?

theone where do you rate Duran as a lightweight?

Number 2 all time. I think Whitaker was the better lightweight.

fair enough I rate him a strong number one in that division. Sort of sorts out the differences in predictions.

fair enough I rate him a strong number one in that division. Sort of sorts out the differences in predictions.

Could you elaborate Boxbuzz?

Big Mac loses to Hagler on points, either loses to Hearns on points or KOs him, beats Duran on points, and beats the Leonard of the late 80s on points or stops him

Big Mac loses to Hagler on points, either loses to Hearns on points or KOs him, beats Duran on points, and beats the Leonard of the late 80s on points or stops him

McCullem would have a hell of a time dealing with Leonards speed and movement. Imagine if Curry was a little faster, alot smarter and had a solid chin. That would be what McCullem would be facing against Leonard.
i dont think he stands to much of a chance of outpointing Leonard.

And ko'ing Leonard? Leonards chin was way to solid and he was to elusive for McCallum to mount an effective enough body attack to get the job done.

Duran's combination of talent, skill, durabilty and will puts him at the top of the lightweight division all time IMHO. That does not mean to say that he tops every catagory. When it comes to pure skill I think one can reasonably make the claim that Pernell may top the list. But based on our assessments, or impressions if you will, it helps sort out why you think Duran would not be competitive with McCallum.

I can't quite remember your take on Tommy but in order to glorify Tommy at Duran's expense one has to sort of put Barkley in his place. (Or vice versa if you think Duran has credibility at the higher weights)...two very popular landscape scenarios here at boxrec, from what I have read. Now some people do not use that construct...and I can not remember where you stand, I was just throwing out keys to popular scenarios. Not sure if you even fit into those catagories. I find the McCallum Hearns, Duran fights too close to call. Oh and I'm sort of a "no excuse" person so the Moore thing doenst carry a lot of weight.

The 3 way go round of Duran, Hearns and Barkly does make for interesting prediction patterns however. Styles do make fights but a loss is a loss and a win a win in my mind. No excuses for Cerdan, none for Duran, none for Moore.

McCallum UD over Duran
McCallum late tko over Hearhs
Leonard UD over McCallum
Hagler SD over McCallum

These are fights I would have loved to have seen.

By 87 I think McCallum would have beaten all of them.

In prime match ups...

Duran would lose a very tight decision to McCallum in a fight not too dissimilar to Duran-Hagler.

Mike has too much iron in his jaw for Hearns and I can see him scoring a late round KO. Although Hearns would win over 12 and if Tommy can clinch like he fianlly learned to do at the end of his career then he can stay up to take the decision over 15. The problem would be that everyb4ody would remember the final rounds rather than the whole fight and it would be disputed.

Hagler would pull away late on as the bigger man and win a decision.

Leonard would be close. Ray wasn't truly proven above welter. He looked good in 1 fight against Kalule, but he definitely lost something as he moved up. I imagine he could pull off a split decision win.

Interesting stuff guys.

Nobody so far has picked Mccullum to beat Hagler and I definitely agree on that score. I’d also have to go with the consensus in picking MM to beat Duran at 154lb, although it would be by no means a foregone conclusion.

I definitely go for SRL on points; I think he would have too much speed and movement for Mccullum to be able to apply a sustained pressure, although I McCullum’s chin would be too good for Leonard to stop him.

For me Hears McCullum would be the most interesting fight, at some point McCullum would have to eat some right hands on the way in if he was to utilize his body attack, a lot would depend on if he could survive that. I’d lean toward Hearns as he’s probably a notch above McCullum although I think it would be one of his toughest tests a light-middle.

Great match up's for the "Body Snatcher" in all of these -

At 154....I say McCallum Dec's Duran in a good solid fight (and that is just at 154....Duran is still the top guy at 135 I believe)..

Vs SRL - I see SRL getting an unpopular SD victory over him -

Vs Hagler (at 160)....a good solid fight with Hagler getting the deserved nod -

Vs the Hitman Hearns.....A real tough one. I can see Hearns winning by both KO or Dec......while I can really only see McCallum winning by KO-TKO.....he couldn't outbox Hearns over 12 rounds....though he may be the stronger of the two by the 12th......My gut says....Hearns KO 4th -

I picked McCallum over Hearns by a late stoppage, but I should clarify that matter. If Hearns had a weakness in the ring, it was the fact that he believed he could always take out his opponent. If he goes in with a fight plan that says, if McCallum is still on steady legs after perhaps 8 rounds, then I switch over to stick and move mode. If Hearns did this, I think he could take a decision over McCallum even in a 15 rd bout. He could do it, but my gut feeling would be that he wouldn't . Instead, as Hearns goes hell bent for leather, and tries to KO McCallum, I see the Body Snatcher doing what he does best, gradually the tide would turn and in the late rounds, instead of stick and move mode, Hearns would be just trying to survive.

Seamus wrote:I picked McCallum over Hearns by a late stoppage, but I should clarify that matter. If Hearns had a weakness in the ring, it was the fact that he believed he could always take out his opponent. If he goes in with a fight plan that says, if McCallum is still on steady legs after perhaps 8 rounds, then I switch over to stick and move mode. If Hearns did this, I think he could take a decision over McCallum even in a 15 rd bout. He could do it, but my gut feeling would be that he wouldn't . Instead, as Hearns goes hell bent for leather, and tries to KO McCallum, I see the Body Snatcher doing what he does best, gradually the tide would turn and in the late rounds, instead of stick and move mode, Hearns would be just trying to survive.

I can understand this sentiment.....but at 154 if Hearns lands that right hand just a few good times.....McCallum is going to go (IMO)....I love the Body Snatcher....always was a big fan (ditto that for the Hitman)....but McCallum never faced a guy with Hearn's power & Speed (He faced J. Jackson who had the same power....but Jackson didn't have Hearn's speed, nor jab, nor footwork ability)....and Jackson never really landed flush on McCallum in their short contest (J. Jackson was young in that fight to boot).

So conventional wisdom so far has it this way....MM gets by Hearns in a very tough one, Breezes by Barkley like a walk in the park, struggles but perserveres with Duran, almost certainly loses a decision with Ray and certainly loses to Hagler.

Interesting threading of the needle here. Not sure I disagree but it is interesting when looked at in it's "condensed" form.