BoxRec

I've never been you biggest fan but that was a tremendous performance, well done.

Tell Jim Watt to GoFuckHimself next time you see him, he critisises you every fight.

European title next for the Cobra.

i think i'm with jim watt. that was not a "tremendous" performance.

It was an impressive finish but all in all Carl showed that he's got glaring flaws.... which mainly his defence and lack of pace, reliance on single punches and most worringly his attitude that he doesnt need to change anything. The talent is there but he will fall short at world level with that 'defence'. If Magee had had a better chin and punch he would have won imo...

silkov wrote:If Magee had had a better chin and punch he would have won imo...

Facking silly useless comment, could be used for any fighter who gets knocked out! The reality of the fight is that Froch won by knocking Magee out, so that's where the credit should be predominantly served, otherwise what's the point of a boxing match. Yes Froch has defensive flaws, but what won the fight was his ability to knock people out. Your comment might be valid if you were talking about a fighter not known for punching power stopping a guy known for having a weak chin. Truth is Froch's strength is his power.

fist wrote:

silkov wrote:If Magee had had a better chin and punch he would have won imo...

Facking silly useless comment, could be used for any fighter who gets knocked out! The reality of the fight is that Froch won by knocking Magee out, so that's where the credit should be predominantly served, otherwise what's the point of a boxing match. Yes Froch has defensive flaws, but what won the fight was his ability to knock people out. Your comment might be valid if you were talking about a fighter not known for punching power stopping a guy known for having a weak chin. Truth is Froch's strength is his power.

Why do you always use swearing and insults in your posts?... is it to cover up a lack of constructive argument?. Let me help you!... the point is that at world level there are plenty of 168 pound fighters with Magees boxing ability and also better chins and bigger punches and they will have a field day with Froch if he fights like that at world level. Magee is Europeon level at most... Froch will be found out at world level on that form...

Where now for Froch? He has to step it up with a european shot or a fight against a ranked yank.

A fight against Mkrtchan for the Euro title is the logical step.

silkov wrote:

fist wrote:

silkov wrote:If Magee had had a better chin and punch he would have won imo...

Facking silly useless comment, could be used for any fighter who gets knocked out! The reality of the fight is that Froch won by knocking Magee out, so that's where the credit should be predominantly served, otherwise what's the point of a boxing match. Yes Froch has defensive flaws, but what won the fight was his ability to knock people out. Your comment might be valid if you were talking about a fighter not known for punching power stopping a guy known for having a weak chin. Truth is Froch's strength is his power.

Why do you always use swearing and insults in your posts?... is it to cover up a lack of constructive argument?. Let me help you!... the point is that at world level there are plenty of 168 pound fighters with Magees boxing ability and also better chins and bigger punches and they will have a field day with Froch if he fights like that at world level. Magee is Europeon level at most... Froch will be found out at world level on that form...

No, your missing your OWN point - you indirectly criticise Froch by inferring that Magee's chin was under par. My question to you is why you choose this subjective route rather than acknowledge Froch's power. It s a weird and rather weak assessment of the fight. Credit should be given to Froch for winning the fight and yes criticism should also be directed at Froch's flaws i.e. defense, but your route of assessment with regards Magee's chin is poor and blind.

fist wrote:

silkov wrote:

fist wrote: Facking silly useless comment, could be used for any fighter who gets knocked out! The reality of the fight is that Froch won by knocking Magee out, so that's where the credit should be predominantly served, otherwise what's the point of a boxing match. Yes Froch has defensive flaws, but what won the fight was his ability to knock people out. Your comment might be valid if you were talking about a fighter not known for punching power stopping a guy known for having a weak chin. Truth is Froch's strength is his power.

Why do you always use swearing and insults in your posts?... is it to cover up a lack of constructive argument?. Let me help you!... the point is that at world level there are plenty of 168 pound fighters with Magees boxing ability and also better chins and bigger punches and they will have a field day with Froch if he fights like that at world level. Magee is Europeon level at most... Froch will be found out at world level on that form...

No, your missing your OWN point - you indirectly criticise Froch by inferring that Magee's chin was under par. My question to you is why you choose this subjective route rather than acknowledge Froch's power. It s a weird and rather weak assessment of the fight. Credit should be given to Froch for winning the fight and yes criticism should also be directed at Froch's flaws i.e. defense, but your route of assessment with regards Magee's chin is poor and blind.

My assessment is only poor because you seem to think that my purpose is to criticise Carl for the sake of it... the point is I expected Carl to win because I knew all along that he would punch too hard for Magee, he said it himself!... but he relies far too much on his power and between flooring Magee in the first and koing him in the 11th Carl was fairly unimpressive. Had Froch been in against a fighter with a better chin and bigger punch I doubt he would have won and the point is that there are 168 fighters out there with bigger punches and better chins than Magee...
So all in all the assessment of Carl must be, has to do much better if he is to go all the way....

I thought Froch was definitely over hyping himself in the post fight interview saying that he was a different class to Magee. I'd say he's just about around the same class and that is EBU level. Magee outworked him in most of the rounds and Froch put too much thought behind throwing punches, so much that he didn't throw anything for stretches of rounds.

The uppercut was the punch that brought him success in this fight but that won't work as effectively against the top guys in the division as it did against "Glass Jaw" Magee. Never mind Calzaghe, I'd favour Lacy to take Froch out if Lacy is looking for a decent come back fight.

For anyone who missed it, you can watch the knockout here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbmewvKqe7c&search=froch

Cannibal wrote:I thought Froch was definitely over hyping himself in the post fight interview saying that he was a different class to Magee. I'd say he's just about around the same class and that is EBU level. Magee outworked him in most of the rounds and Froch put too much thought behind throwing punches, so much that he didn't throw anything for stretches of rounds.

The uppercut was the punch that brought him success in this fight but that won't work as effectively against the top guys in the division as it did against "Glass Jaw" Magee. Never mind Calzaghe, I'd favour Lacy to take Froch out if Lacy is looking for a decent come back fight.

Though it may sound perverse, I was more impressed by Magee than Froch during the fight. Magee looked the better boxer technically and fought the better fight, its just a shame that he just hasn't got the durabilty. Froch has a possibly a world class punch and chin... but everything else is I'm afraid just Euro level at the most and when he steps up he won't be koing fighters with the infrequent punches he throws and good chin or not, against a good puncher he will be stopped unless he learns a decent defence...

i read on seconds out that in reality froch is a shy chap who, on the advice of his managers, feigns an over the top bravado style to compensate for this shyness. if true, what a stupid thing to ask a fighter to do. to get the vast majority of brit boxing fans backs up when we would be more ready to cheer and encourage a guy whose own glaring faults he admits.
mugs, the lot of them

harrygreb wrote:i read on seconds out that in reality froch is a shy chap who, on the advice of his managers, feigns an over the top bravado style to compensate for this shyness. if true, what a stupid thing to ask a fighter to do. to get the vast majority of brit boxing fans backs up when we would be more ready to cheer and encourage a guy whose own glaring faults he admits.
mugs, the lot of them

I agree, if this is true... let the man be himself. All his arrogant talk has just led to Froch being probably one of the most unpopular British boxers around today. One of the problems is that he talks a better fight than he delivers... said he would outclass Magee but did anything but...

silkov wrote:

fist wrote:

silkov wrote: Why do you always use swearing and insults in your posts?... is it to cover up a lack of constructive argument?. Let me help you!... the point is that at world level there are plenty of 168 pound fighters with Magees boxing ability and also better chins and bigger punches and they will have a field day with Froch if he fights like that at world level. Magee is Europeon level at most... Froch will be found out at world level on that form...

No, your missing your OWN point - you indirectly criticise Froch by inferring that Magee's chin was under par. My question to you is why you choose this subjective route rather than acknowledge Froch's power. It s a weird and rather weak assessment of the fight. Credit should be given to Froch for winning the fight and yes criticism should also be directed at Froch's flaws i.e. defense, but your route of assessment with regards Magee's chin is poor and blind.

My assessment is only poor because you seem to think that my purpose is to criticise Carl for the sake of it... the point is I expected Carl to win because I knew all along that he would punch too hard for Magee, he said it himself!... but he relies far too much on his power and between flooring Magee in the first and koing him in the 11th Carl was fairly unimpressive. Had Froch been in against a fighter with a better chin and bigger punch I doubt he would have won and the point is that there are 168 fighters out there with bigger punches and better chins than Magee...
So all in all the assessment of Carl must be, has to do much better if he is to go all the way....

I agree. Carl dropped Magee early, and then spent the rest of the fight trying to land the same honey punch, neglecting his defence, not racking up the points, and taking silly shots. I wasn't scoring the bout, but had he not knocked Magee out, it would have been pretty close.

I thought Magee was drastically runing out of puff to be honest, he seemed to be falling apart before the knockout came. Before that, he had put up a spirited peformance, and was outworking Froch for the majority of the rounds, but this fight was always going to be a question of whether his chin would hold up or not.

Froch has performed like this a lot of times now, where by he gets outworked, but comes through with his power - That isn't going to see him through against more resistant fighters.

I'd give him a good shout to walk Beyer down for a stoppage, and a Lacy fight would be lots of fun - It will be interesting to see how he fairs against Mkrtchian, I've always thought that Calzaghe was very impressive when he dismantled Mkrtchian.

I'll say it here and now.

If Froch ever fights Lacy, then unless Lacy has completely lost his confidence, Carl will be annihilated.

Lacy would love to fight someone with that posing style of Carl's, he would just keep pouring it on until Carl found himself backed in a corner, and shortly afterwards having his gumshield removed by the ref.

Carl Froch is now one of the most unpopular fighters in Britain? That’s news to me. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t see his trash talking as a bit of PR for boxing in the same way that boxers through the years have always talked. I remember JC calling out Steve Collins when he was the up and coming Super Middleweight exactly the way Froch does to him now. When I see Froch call the Calzaghes ‘Steptoe & Son’ I just find it funny, I don’t think ‘I can’t wait for someone to shut him up’. Its just entertainment.

Carl Froch has just beaten a very good boxer in Brian Magee – a man who arguably should be wearing the Euro strap. And he gave him the worst beating of his career. Fact. Boxrec rankings have Carl as #3 in the world now – too high perhaps – but Froch has arrived on the world scene now and all the talk of him not getting very far with his style, needing to change etc is irrelevant.

He is already here, and right in the mix. As a British Boxing fan I am delighted.

I don't have any problem with the trash talk either, I find it amusing, and I've followed Carl from day 1 in the hope we could have another world class operator at 168. What frustrates the shit out of me is watching Carl try and do a Roy Jones impersonation instead of just fighting and throwing punches. Roy Jones was virtually superhuman at 168, and could get away with that shit, Carl just stands there and gets hit. I guess that is how he likes to fight, but he's going to come a cropper and soon, and I don't see him changing at this stage of his career. He's gotten a long way with poor fundamentals, but to get to the top you have to have some sound boxing skills, and Carl either doesn't have them or more likely won't use them. It's frustrating.

I agree with what you say James.

The fundamentals are lacking – and the bad habits are far too ingrained to be changed now I fear. These faults will probably inhibit Carl from making the final push to world champion status but it should be an interesting journey.

That's what I mean. When he planted his feet and let a string of punches go, he had Magee wincing and backing up every time, but then he would revert to standing there with his left arm by his side doing stupid body popping moves.

Myguess is that he doesn't have enough confidence in his defensive abilities to stand and fire off shots, for the fear of being countered. It's a lot easier to do that if you are landing single shots, then slip or duck and regroup.

Problem is, someone like Lacy, who obviously has a good chin, will just keep on firing and Carl, at least fighting the kind of style he has exhibited so far, would be overwhelmed.

I have heard McCracken exhorting Carl to throw the jab and get his guard up on numerous occasions, all to no avail, when Carl was quizzed about his lack of defence he said something along the lines of 'My chin is tucked behind my shoulder, and that's the style I've always fought.'

Well, what good it will do when someone lands a big right hook to the side of his head is beyond me, or a straight right down the middle.

neverwin wrote:Carl Froch is now one of the most unpopular fighters in Britain? That’s news to me. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t see his trash talking as a bit of PR for boxing in the same way that boxers through the years have always talked. I remember JC calling out Steve Collins when he was the up and coming Super Middleweight exactly the way Froch does to him now. When I see Froch call the Calzaghes ‘Steptoe & Son’ I just find it funny, I don’t think ‘I can’t wait for someone to shut him up’. Its just entertainment.

Carl Froch has just beaten a very good boxer in Brian Magee – a man who arguably should be wearing the Euro strap. And he gave him the worst beating of his career. Fact. Boxrec rankings have Carl as #3 in the world now – too high perhaps – but Froch has arrived on the world scene now and all the talk of him not getting very far with his style, needing to change etc is irrelevant.

He is already here, and right in the mix. As a British Boxing fan I am delighted.

Will you be saying all the talk of of Frochs flaws is irrelevant after he is koed?.... I think not. In Magee he beat a good Euro level fighter and had trouble doing it... if you think that his performance against Magee shows that Carl will go all the way then your dreaming. To say Carl has arrived on the world scene by beating Magee is just nonsense.
Remember, old and worn out Robin Reid floored Magee 5 times and beat him, then Robin was destroyed by Lacy who was in turn destroyed by Calzaghe.... look at this and you will see where abouts in the world scene Froch is... not very hight at all.
Unfortunately he's probably got a bunch of yes men like you around him making him think he is invincible...

Hi Silkov

out of interest, where would you rank Carl Froch then?

I think #3 in the world is too high.(boxrec ranking)

But I would say he is just outside the Top 10.
Which puts him in the mix. Does it not?

I think it's fair to say Froch is edging top 10 material, even though he's only beaten one Euro Class fighter..

neverwin wrote:Hi Silkov

out of interest, where would you rank Carl Froch then?

I think #3 in the world is too high.(boxrec ranking)

But I would say he is just outside the Top 10.
Which puts him in the mix. Does it not?

Off the top of my head I'd put Froch at about 11th or 12th in the world... certainly no higher. When you say it puts him in the mix it depends what mix you mean, it makes him basically a fringe contender at world class but he should realistically forget about going for a world title for the time being... fighting Calkzaghe would be a disaster right now.
Froch is too slow to fight with the style he's adopted, he's far too onepaced and easy to hit. He can get by at the level he's at now because of his power and chin but if he steps up to true world class he will come unstuck unless he changes a lot of things.
I say all this not because I'm a hater or anything, but because I'd actually like to see froch do well and win a proper world title... but he won't do that fighting the way he did against Magee.