Is valuev a threat to marcianos record?
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 14:35
opinions
BoxRec
Is valuev a threat to marcianos record?
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Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 15:01
Not unless he becomes the HW champion by unifying the titles of the four families.
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 16:44
It's not the 49-0 mark alone that made Marciano's record legendary, it's the fact that he retired from the ring as heavyweight champion with an undefeated record.
Several fighthers were 49-0 at one point in their career, although not at heavyweight.
For Valuev to top Marciano he would have to win the heavyweight title, not just one belt, and retire undefeated. Until he gets the actual undisputed heavyweight title, he isn't even a threat.
-KOKid-
Several fighthers were 49-0 at one point in their career, although not at heavyweight.
For Valuev to top Marciano he would have to win the heavyweight title, not just one belt, and retire undefeated. Until he gets the actual undisputed heavyweight title, he isn't even a threat.
-KOKid-
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 17:35
Decagon wrote:Brian Nielsen already tied Marciano's record.
but he was never a champion of the 3 major boxing organizations (wba, wbc, ibf)
valuev is, WBA
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 17:35
Valuev's got a no contest against a German fighter, so perhaps his record isn't completely spotless. Does anyone know what happened in that NC ?
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 18:04
Valuev holding the WBA belt off a bad decision in this day and age is about as prestigious as Leotis Martin winning the NABF title by beating Sonny Liston.
So in other words, no.
So in other words, no.
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 18:51
Valuev is already better than Marciano ever was.
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 20:05
better at what, netball?
Posted: 04 Jun 2006, 20:40
Better at growing hair on his back is about all I can think of...mrbassie wrote:better at what, netball?
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 01:25
Valuev will possibly surpass the 49-0, I mean look at how they fed him Owen Beck as his first title defense. The giant will prolly be spoon fed a bunch of "set-ups" until he is 49-0 and then take on a real opponent.
But irregardless if Valuev won all the titles and became undisputed champion, and retired undefeated...I would still give Marciano the edge.
Marciano will always have beaten the better fighters and had to over come far more than what Valuev has.
Even when Holmes was 48-0 and though he had the better ring skills, I never felt that Holmes beat better fighters than Marciano.
Valuev could be 60-0 or even a 100-0....and in the end he might end up in the top 10 Heavies of all time. But with this era of Heavyweights with the talent levels so shallow, there isn't much to prove.
But irregardless if Valuev won all the titles and became undisputed champion, and retired undefeated...I would still give Marciano the edge.
Marciano will always have beaten the better fighters and had to over come far more than what Valuev has.
Even when Holmes was 48-0 and though he had the better ring skills, I never felt that Holmes beat better fighters than Marciano.
Valuev could be 60-0 or even a 100-0....and in the end he might end up in the top 10 Heavies of all time. But with this era of Heavyweights with the talent levels so shallow, there isn't much to prove.
re
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 02:47
It’s not likely that his suitors will not give Valuev a real opponent until he hits 50-0, which even facing softies, up to that point, is not a certainty he will make the mark, but it's likely he will.
They want some way to try to make him seem better and more important than he really is and what better way than to claim that he beats Marciano's long-standing record. But even at that he is never going to be champion in my eyes unless he unifies the division (IBF, WBA and WBC).
This holding one belt and calling yourself a champion bullshit is a joke and always has been! The fact that he just defended the belt that he holds, which by the way is the same belt that James Toney beat Ruiz for, but which was handed back to Ruiz for the umpteenth time, but Valuev defended that trinket and very few people even knew about it, or actually, few people cared...it sure as hell wasn't given any consideration here in the states...and rightly so...it was treated as it should be...just another heavyweight fight!
They want some way to try to make him seem better and more important than he really is and what better way than to claim that he beats Marciano's long-standing record. But even at that he is never going to be champion in my eyes unless he unifies the division (IBF, WBA and WBC).
This holding one belt and calling yourself a champion bullshit is a joke and always has been! The fact that he just defended the belt that he holds, which by the way is the same belt that James Toney beat Ruiz for, but which was handed back to Ruiz for the umpteenth time, but Valuev defended that trinket and very few people even knew about it, or actually, few people cared...it sure as hell wasn't given any consideration here in the states...and rightly so...it was treated as it should be...just another heavyweight fight!
Is valuev a threat to Marcianos record?
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 08:01
Very few fighters are 44-0 and an alphabet champion. Anyone who does is a threat to break Marciano's record. This is the heavyweight division. Even if half of Valuev opponents were journeyman, one would figure he would lose a fight along the way.Is valuev a threat to Marcianos record?
I beleive Valuev and Marciano are somewhat similar in terms of their career paths. Neither man had more than 15 amateur fights. Both guys were considered crude. Both guys received close decisions that could have gone the other way. Both guys had a lot of lower level fights until they won the title.
Can Valuev win 6 more WBA title fights? I don’t think so, but he has a chance.
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 10:35
im confused, cause i dont agree
I beleive Valuev and Marciano are somewhat similar in terms of their career paths.
valuev got his title shot by beating on bums
marciano got his title shot by knocking out # 1 ranked joe louis, # 2 ranked rex layne, and # 5 ranked harry kid mathews and decisioning top 10 rated roland lastarza.
i really think theres no comparison
Re: Is valuev a threat to marcianos record?
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 10:38
He holds only one belt and isn't he best beltholder around. Even if he breaks the record in a formal sense it doesn't count.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:opinions
re
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 11:29
>>>Neither man had more than 15 amateur fights.<<<
Marciano won tournaments as an amateur heavyweight and damn near made the Olympic team, so even though he had very few amateur bouts, he was accomplished...Valuev was not then and he is not now...he's an oddity! Valuev is just a step above Butterbean in the skill department and has won simply because he is so big. If he consistently fought guys like Larry Donald, or hell, if he consistently fought guys like Dicky Ryan...he would have a loss by now. He does not compare one bit to Marciano! If anyone really considered him to be a champion a lot would have been made about his fighting Owen Beck, but as I said, it was giving little to no consideration and rightly so...after all, the trinket he now has was gifted to Ruiz on more than one occasion and it is nothing more than a pretty mantle piece…there’s certainly not one thing legit about it! Now if he unified the big three, that would be different, he could be called champion, but that’s not likely to happen any time soon!
Marciano won tournaments as an amateur heavyweight and damn near made the Olympic team, so even though he had very few amateur bouts, he was accomplished...Valuev was not then and he is not now...he's an oddity! Valuev is just a step above Butterbean in the skill department and has won simply because he is so big. If he consistently fought guys like Larry Donald, or hell, if he consistently fought guys like Dicky Ryan...he would have a loss by now. He does not compare one bit to Marciano! If anyone really considered him to be a champion a lot would have been made about his fighting Owen Beck, but as I said, it was giving little to no consideration and rightly so...after all, the trinket he now has was gifted to Ruiz on more than one occasion and it is nothing more than a pretty mantle piece…there’s certainly not one thing legit about it! Now if he unified the big three, that would be different, he could be called champion, but that’s not likely to happen any time soon!
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 11:57
yea and marciano beat 17-0(17KO) big colley wallace, the top amatuer prospect in the countty but was robbed. the decision was so bad the fans threw bottles in the ring. wallace was beating touted as the next joe louis(even looked like him) but this unknown crude nobody named rocco marchegiano came out of nowhere to give him a licking, but wallace got the decision
marciano did quite well in the amatuers for having no world class training or no experience. thats all he had was a suzyQ
fact is goldman didnt start training rocky until his 10th pro fight . had rocky not had a suzyQ he would have lost most of his first 10 fights
thats what people dont realize about rockys right hand, everytime he was in trouble it was the right hand that got him out of the trouble.
barry wuts ur opinion on carmine vingo. was he a legite potential prospect, or was he an overhyped nothing cause of his efforts in the marciano fight? it seems he really proved he was no bum in the marciano fight and that he had a lot of potential. rocky said vingo hit him harder than he had ever been hit by anything in his life.
in the 15 seconds of marciano-vingo film, u can catch glimpes of vingo and he didnt seem all that bad. i even saw him put a 4 punch combo together.
marciano did quite well in the amatuers for having no world class training or no experience. thats all he had was a suzyQ
fact is goldman didnt start training rocky until his 10th pro fight . had rocky not had a suzyQ he would have lost most of his first 10 fights
thats what people dont realize about rockys right hand, everytime he was in trouble it was the right hand that got him out of the trouble.
barry wuts ur opinion on carmine vingo. was he a legite potential prospect, or was he an overhyped nothing cause of his efforts in the marciano fight? it seems he really proved he was no bum in the marciano fight and that he had a lot of potential. rocky said vingo hit him harder than he had ever been hit by anything in his life.
in the 15 seconds of marciano-vingo film, u can catch glimpes of vingo and he didnt seem all that bad. i even saw him put a 4 punch combo together.
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 12:06
If I recall Marciano said that his fight with Vingo was "the toughest of my career".
Now that is coming from a man who faced Walcott, Charles, Cockell, Louis, Matthews etc. Vingo was also a rather large Heavyweight for the time period, like 6'4" or 6'5", that may have given Marciano problems considering his 69" reach.
Now that is coming from a man who faced Walcott, Charles, Cockell, Louis, Matthews etc. Vingo was also a rather large Heavyweight for the time period, like 6'4" or 6'5", that may have given Marciano problems considering his 69" reach.
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 15:38
Well even if Valuev beats Marcianos record that won't make him a better fighter than Marciano, and only if Valuev unifies the titles and cleans up the division can we start saying that he's a true champion etc... I actually hope he does well for himself as he's a good guy and has had to put up with a lot of crap because of his unusual appearance, plus the division needs a dominant champion again...
re
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 15:45
Has anyone ever heard any more about when Valuev supposedly attacked the guard at an airport?
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 15:52
I dont think Valuevs undefeated record compares to Marcianos. The whole undefeated thing is real overated anyway as far as Im concerned. When a guys record is 1000-0 ya gotta check into who he fought . Thats more important. Always check under the hood.
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 15:54
Valuev would have to get past John Ruiz in a rematch first, which is no sure thing. Maybe in Germany he'd get a decision again, but he has stated his intentions to come to America.
Even if he did beat Ruiz, he would have to take a slew of non-title fights to surpass 49-0. His talent is too lacking to take him much further at the top of the division. He already received two gifts - against Larry Donald and John Ruiz - and I doubt he will receive another.
Even if he did beat Ruiz, he would have to take a slew of non-title fights to surpass 49-0. His talent is too lacking to take him much further at the top of the division. He already received two gifts - against Larry Donald and John Ruiz - and I doubt he will receive another.
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 16:11
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 16:31
Well he seems to have improved a lot since he won the title and gained a lot more confidence, I think if he fights Ruiz again he will win clearly...
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 20:32
Here's the Giant Killer in action...against Carnera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAbY8sj ... Max%20Baer
against Galento...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKoarFEm ... Max%20Baer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrAbY8sj ... Max%20Baer
against Galento...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKoarFEm ... Max%20Baer
Posted: 05 Jun 2006, 20:52
Great stuff,thanks. Galento was quite the brawler. I wonder if he caught any grief for quitting on the stool.It was hard to tell ,maybe the ref stopped it I couldnt tell. Maybe someone has more info.