BoxRec

We think alike... I see Monzon being too much for Sugar.... he would wear him down and win by ko in about 8 to 10 rounds... Monzon is possibly the best ever at 160...

I think Monzon would be too strong, but then again, I figured the same thing when he fought Hagler!

Monzon dishes out a one-sided beating.

barry wrote:I think Monzon would be too strong, but then again, I figured the same thing when he fought Hagler!

I think a peak Hagler would have been too strong for Ray, which is why he waited till after the Mugubi fight when it was clear that Marvin was slipping....

Monzon Wins.....Sugar could get a cerebral as he wants but there is no fight plan he can devise that is going to match what Carlos brings in ring generalship and ability to adapt. There is too much desparity in will, size and capability.

This would be a case sort of like the scene in Satuday Nite Live where the boxer meets the chess player in the ring. The boxer beats the chess player handily.

I cant see what Leonard would bring that would beat Monzon. He might be a little faster than Carlos but I dont see that being enough. Hed drop a Ud to Monzon I think.

Leonard was much more than just a stick and move fighter, very underated power, chin and heart to go with all of his other skills. I'm going to be in the minority here. I would love to have seen a fight like this just to give Ray the chance to remove any doubts of what kind of fighter he was. I say Ray adapts to anything Monzon throws at him and comes out the winner.

Monzon would start slow. Leonard would build up a points lead with his speed. At some point he'd land a few flush shots and it would be then that Monzon's counters would start flying and once he got himself into that position there would be no stopping him. Monzon stops Ray sometime after the 10th.

Ezzard wrote:Monzon would start slow. Leonard would build up a points lead with his speed. At some point he'd land a few flush shots and it would be then that Monzon's counters would start flying and once he got himself into that position there would be no stopping him. Monzon stops Ray sometime after the 10th.

I agree with that. I see the fight in much the same way. Monzon by decision or by late stoppage although Leonard would win the first few rounds.

Monzon would not be able to handle the speed and the movement to land a big punch leanord wins by a hugh UD

Bradley001 wrote:Monzon would not be able to handle the speed and the movement to land a big punch leanord wins by a hugh UD

This does not pan out in my book. Leonard is going to have his way easier with Monzon than with Hagler? I put this through the mighty Univac and it blew it's tube. First of all Leonard being a rather brilliant man would NEVER and I mean NEVER put paper to pen to find out. Providing both fighters were at the top of there game.

I'm pretty sure the only thing that brought Leonard out to fight Hagler was that Ray was convinced Marvin's best days were behind him. It was calculated. With Monzon in his prime that same brilliant mind would see "Legacy Destroyer" in Monzon and simply not engage.

At 160 I'd go for Monzon, too.

I would have to question what Ray's weaknesess were as to make this such a one sided fight with Ray coming out on the short end of a beatdown. His only loss in his prime was a razor thin decsision to Duran that could have gone either way which he later avenged, yet somehow he is given little to no chance here. Also Monzon was not totally unbeatable during his career. Strongly disagree.

We're talking perhaps the greatest pure middleweight of all time.....Leonard had his hands full with the greatest lightweight of all time.

kick asner wrote:I would have to question what Ray's weaknesess were as to make this such a one sided fight with Ray coming out on the short end of a beatdown. His only loss in his prime was a razor thin decsision to Duran that could have gone either way which he later avenged, yet somehow he is given little to no chance here. Also Monzon was not totally unbeatable during his career. Strongly disagree.

Kick

This fight is more about Monzon than Leonard. Carlos would not be beaten by a WW moving up.

So I guess that Leonard is seen more as a Welterweight here than a middleweight which is true since that is where Ray had most of his fights. Also nobody has made the point yet but I wonder if so many people favor Monzon because they figure that he fought in a time period where boxing was better overall. Then the argument would come down to how Ray makes the transition from welterweight to middleweight which it looks like most people think not well enough. I guess I am still somewhat in the minority here.

Monzon on points for me.

I can't see a KO, as Sugar had too much heart, but he would not have been big enough to deal with Monzon at middleweight.

Sugar was a great welterweight & Carlos was great middleweight; Sugar never fought a middleweight often enough to be considered against Monzon.

kick asner wrote:So I guess that Leonard is seen more as a Welterweight here than a middleweight which is true since that is where Ray had most of his fights. Also nobody has made the point yet but I wonder if so many people favor Monzon because they figure that he fought in a time period where boxing was better overall. Then the argument would come down to how Ray makes the transition from welterweight to middleweight which it looks like most people think not well enough. I guess I am still somewhat in the minority here.

even as a MW you're putting him in with a guy who has probably the best reign of any MW champion in history. Leonard was a special talent but so was carlos.