BoxRec

im excited they are doing a speciaL RINGSIDE on marciano tommorow like they did with louis and ali. this is going to be great, i hope everyone tunes in too watch.

im worried though.........

I saw a guy say on the commercial, he is a good puncher, but he cant fight. GEEZ, this is going be a Marciano bashing program. The man can FIGHT.

I hope they bring someone in that actually knows what they are talking about rather than bert sugars "he had the greatest right hand in history but he had no skill" which is bullshit. I hope they do rock justice.




schedule




Interviews:
Marvin Hagler (following the footsteps of Marciano in Brockton)
Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini
Heavyweight Champion Wladimir Klitschko
Peter and Lou Marciano (brothers)
Dr. Ferdie Pacheco
Archie Moore's 1998 interviews (discusses his 1955 title fight vs Marciano)

Marciano Featured Fights with historic radio calls:
Marciano vs Joe Louis (Don Dunphy radio)
Marciano vs Jersey Joe Walcott I & II (Dunphy radio)
Marciano vs Ezzard Charles I & II (Russ Hodges radio)
Marciano vs Don Cockell (Dunphy radio)
Marciano vs Archie Moore (Hodges radio)
Marciano vs Lee Savold (Steve Ellis radio)

Other Features:
Highlights with analysis of Marciano knockouts of Rex Layne and Harry "Kid" Matthews
Computer-simluated Superfight between Marciano and Muhammad Ali







* why is wlad klitschko on the show? wonder wut his thoughts on marciano will be

Should be a good show, and I’m sure there will be someone to balance Sugar’s viewpoint. I do seem to recall that he doesn’t think too highly of the Rock.

Not sure of Wlad’s place, but he seems to be generally regarded as the top HW right now, so I guess that’s why he’s on. Maybe he’ll tell everyone that he was inspired by the stories his father/grandfather used to tell him about the great Rocky Marciano and how these stories inspired him to become a fearless warrior like the Rock.

Tivo will make this 6 hours fly by in like 4 1/2! It will be a good watch, any historical insight into one of my favorite FIGHTERS is great.

Nice bit of copying & pasting 1238's words

DoubleM wrote:Nice bit of copying & pasting 1238's words

heh?

I missed the program...did anyone get to see it? Did they portray the Rock in a positive light or did they shit all over him?

..positive light!!!! jeezus....they made him into superman!!! i din't see all of it.....don't know if they edited down the first charles fight the way it's usually shown on "classics"..with all of ezzard's best rounds cut....but they fell all over themselves...at least from what i saw...in trying to make marciano into an unbeatable destruction machine with grerater defensive sklls than willie pep and a punch that would floor a rhinoscerous.

...however...speaking of falling all over oneself...i tuned in just in time to catch marciano vs. the washed up lee savold....and that fight goes into my own personal marciano "highlights" file...marciano hitting this poor old slob and not being able to put him down (he had been a once punch kayo victim of an over-the-hill joe louis earlier)...and rocky misses one swing and falls on his face. i add this footage to the first six rounds of charlesI...the first 12 rounds of walcott I....and much of his foul filled battering of that poor fat fellow don cockell.

it did dismiss the myth that marciano was "blinded" in those middle rounds against walcott. hell, if he couldn't see he'd half whacked the referee a couple of times by mistake. even keeper-of-the-marciano flame teddy atlas said the rock's eyes might have stung,. but if he couldn't see there was no way he could have traded punches with his 40 year old opponent as well as he did.

okay...brockton boy.....i know you've checked on to this one....and when your blood pressure comes back down let me know if you got that second email from me re: ezzard and ken overlin.

I will quote Teddy Atlas, on Marciano:

"He is the most over-rated and most under-rated champion of all time, over-rated because of being undefeated..."

I will say that sums it up by and large. Marciano will always be under-rated because of his late start, short reach, terrible skills (when he first started), and because he fought "old fighters". These can be disputed over and over again---but in the end, the best that era had couldn't shake him off, not many people can say that for the boxers these days.

Like many of those fighters he fought said, he hit harder with one punch than a prime Joe Louis did with four---that he wasn't a boxer, just a slam bam didn't give a damn kinda guy. Even Joe Louis said Marciano hit harder than anyone he ever fought.

I guess in this sport, irregardless of whatever skills you have, an iron willed determination and a jack hammer of a punch can change the course of any fight---Marciano was one of those men. His style was beatable, but he wasn't entirely terrible---he was getting beat by Charles and Walcott on the cards, but he always managed to find a way to the KO.

Joe Frazier has been compared to him, but Joe doesn't have the two fisted power, yet people hold Frazier up better than Marciano in some respects. Foreman was compared to him as well, but George was a puncher, not a swarmer like Marciano, George stalked people and threw big punches one at a time, Marciano threw ten and was always on top of his opponents, yet Foreman is considered better.

I think there is still great ignorance when it comes to Marciano, as it was when he was alive and well. He faced criticism then, and he probably always will. I will say in all fairness, Marciano probably would be beaten by the best movers on all cards---but all it would take would be one single punch. Nobody I don't think could sincerly swap punches with Marciano and think they could manage to beat him.

Archie Moore thought he could, and was destroyed. Imagine this, if Foreman fought Marciano and turned it into a slugfest who would be knocked out? If Foreman could be dropped by Ron Lyle multiple times, dropped by Ali, dropped by Jimmy Young---lacked stamina and endurance as well as ring smarts in his prime---George I believe would be going down.

But that's just me.

Maybe not the best, but surely he gave everything he was worth every time out, and every time he won. Give credit to where credit is due. If there ever was a superman (as you quoted Jaclem) Marciano was it.

Amen IrishRufusMurphy,

PLUS (allow me to just add to that)...

How many of today's heavyweights can take severe punishments for 12 rounds (lose round by round consecutively) and still have the KO power in their fists to KO a man who's actually heavier than them.

(CHECK WALCOTT-MARCIANO I.)

That would take:
1. Courage/grit- to take such a beating and continue fighting for a victory.
2. Stamina- to keep fighting hard.
3. Unbelieveable fists- not many people in history have...

AMEN once again.

Overrated? Hardly.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:…If there ever was a superman (as you quoted Jaclem) Marciano was it.

Of course, as Jaclem noted, he did trip over that cape a few times.

Crease wrote:Amen IrishRufusMurphy,

PLUS (allow me to just add to that)...

How many of today's heavyweights can take severe punishments for 12 rounds (lose round by round consecutively) and still have the KO power in their fists to KO a man who's actually heavier than them.

(CHECK WALCOTT-MARCIANO I.)

Marciano was not losing "round by round consecutively" for 12 rounds against Walcott. He was behind in a close, competitive fight and pulled ahead with a monstrous right hand in round 13.

Imagine this, if Foreman fought Marciano and turned it into a slugfest who would be knocked out? If Foreman could be dropped by Ron Lyle multiple times, dropped by Ali, dropped by Jimmy Young---lacked stamina and endurance as well as ring smarts in his prime---George I believe would be going down.

And if old fighters, south of 200lbs. like Moore, Walcott, and Charles could drop, cut and stand up to a lot of his punches, imagine what Foreman would do to the Rock?

Marciano was the best of his era and I expect that people rate him higher than IrishMurphy is suggesting. Just because many people may dislike Marciano does not mean they underrate his abilities. His achievements speak for themselves and no amount of criticism can undermine his career achievements.

Yeah, but Foreman wasn't a tactician with great skill and speed like Charles and Walcott either. Watch those fights, the better half of those fights is those men back peddling and using their jabs. Foreman, like Marciano opponent Don Cockell, would have came to Marciano.

George threw punches one at a time, always going for a knockout, he was pretty sloppy in his efforts at times---Marciano was a swarmer and would have stayed on top of George the entire time---Marciano is often compared to Frazier, but Frazier wasn't as ferocious nor did he have the two-fisted power, plus I give Marciano an edge in the amount of punches he threw as well his body-punching and crouching style would have fought off Big George far more than Frazier, who just blocked the blows with his face.

Plus you have to figure, Foreman was a strong man with good size, but he did not have the conditioning nor the endurance to go that many rounds in his prime. Marciano was easily the most conditioned Heavyweight champion there ever was, he trained like an old bare-knuckle era fighter, having the endurance to go 20, 30, 40 even 50 rounds if he wanted to.

George hit hard, but I can't recall the man ever using 300+ pound punching bags and knocking em all over the place. I do know George had 250 pound bags and made big dents in them. When it comes down to it, Marciano threw punches in bunches, and he hit just as hard as George did, if not harder---Foreman stalked people and tried to take em out with one punch at a time.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:...plus I give Marciano an edge in the amount of punches he threw as well his body-punching and crouching style would have fought off Big George far more than Frazier, who just blocked the blows with his face.

I think you are grossly under rating Frazier's abilities with an insulting comment like this. Perhaps in your zeal to build up the Rock, you simply got carried away and said something that you really didn't mean?

I aint saying Frazier was a bad fighter, just he wasn't as fast as Marciano. Yes Frazier threw alot of punches himself, but Marciano from round one onwards would not slow down the pace. Like many who fought him, he threw punches in great numbers.

Myself Frazier threw body shots only long enough for him to get that left hook in to someone's head---Marciano would have just kept beating on em, irregardless if there was a shot or not. He literally broke someone down to nothing. Frazier just set-up people for that big left.

sockdollanger wrote:

DoubleM wrote:Nice bit of copying & pasting 1238's words

heh?

Nothing, just that BB copied & pasted the words of another poster from another forum. Don't know whether to think of it as laziness or sneakiness.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:I aint saying Frazier was a bad fighter, just he wasn't as fast as Marciano. Yes Frazier threw alot of punches himself, but Marciano from round one onwards would not slow down the pace. Like many who fought him, he threw punches in great numbers.

Myself Frazier threw body shots only long enough for him to get that left hook in to someone's head---Marciano would have just kept beating on em, irregardless if there was a shot or not. He literally broke someone down to nothing. Frazier just set-up people for that big left.

OIC. Well I'll simply disagree with your assessment.

I look at it this way, ok? Frazier will always be remembered for his three fights with Ali. In the first fight Ali was out of the ring for three years. Second time was a pretty exciting fight, but certainly not great. And in the third match, let's face it both men were on the downside at the time.

Frazier did well enough though to go 5 rounds instead of 2 in his rematch with Foreman, but he was too old by then and going blind. Hell when he faced Ali for the third time his vision in one of his eyes was 20x150!

He, in my opinion, was a tough man, with a great left...but he pressured men down. In his prime yes he had pretty good skills for a puncher, but nonetheless it was to set up that left hook. His right hand was nothing more than a parrying tool.

His best wins will always be against a inactive Ali, Mathis, Light Heavyweight Foster, and Ellis. His reign was short, and with his defense, which really wasn't none to begin with, he got hit alot. He did stay on top of his opponents, but almost every old timer and historian can tell you, if Frazier is comparable to Marciano, and all of them agreed that Marciano was better---imagine what a prime Marciano could do to Ali when he fought Frazier?

Wow. What is with the Frazier bashing?
His defense was bad? He moved his head a lot and was more difficult to hit than most fighters with his style, and was certainly a better defensive fighter than Marciano.
You mentioned Frazier's wins over Ali, Mathis, Foster and Ellis as his biggest. That's pretty good right there. You forgot to mention that he beat Quarry (twice), Bonavena (twice), Chuvalo, and Bugner.

Ali wasn't at his absolute best when Frazier beat him, but very few other fighters would have beaten Ali then. Frazier fought a phenomenal fight.

And why are you knocking the 3rd Ali-Frazier fight? It was an tremendous fight. Frazier would have beaten almost any fighter that ever lived that night.

Frazier was as relentless as any heavyweight ever; and one of the best heavyweights of all time.

Yeah, but Foreman wasn't a tactician with great skill and speed like Charles and Walcott either. Watch those fights, the better half of those fights is those men back peddling and using their jabs. Foreman, like Marciano opponent Don Cockell, would have came to Marciano.

You make my point. Foreman would have alot more opportunity to land on Marciano than Charles and Walcott did. He would land more punches, harder punches and would be able to stand his ground against the much smaller Marciano. I'll ignore the fact thay your mentioning Cockell and Foreman in the same sentence.

George threw punches one at a time, always going for a knockout, he was pretty sloppy in his efforts at times---Marciano was a swarmer and would have stayed on top of George the entire time---Marciano is often compared to Frazier, but Frazier wasn't as ferocious nor did he have the two-fisted power, plus I give Marciano an edge in the amount of punches he threw as well his body-punching and crouching style would have fought off Big George far more than Frazier, who just blocked the blows with his face

Are you serious? Compared to Marciano, Frazier was a technician and Foreman was a ballerina.

George hit hard, but I can't recall the man ever using 300+ pound punching bags and knocking em all over the place. I do know George had 250 pound bags and made big dents in them. When it comes down to it, Marciano threw punches in bunches, and he hit just as hard as George did, if not harder---Foreman stalked people and tried to take em out with one punch at a time.

Anyone who believes for a second that Marciano hit harder than Foreman is living in a fantasy world. If Marciano had the type of power alot of people claimed he did every match probably would have ended with a one punch ko before the third round.

Ambling Alp wrote:Wow. What is with the Frazier bashing?
His defense was bad? He moved his head a lot and was more difficult to hit than most fighters with his style, and was certainly a better defensive fighter than Marciano.
You mentioned Frazier's wins over Ali, Mathis, Foster and Ellis as his biggest. That's pretty good right there. You forgot to mention that he beat Quarry (twice), Bonavena (twice), Chuvalo, and Bugner.

Ali wasn't at his absolute best when Frazier beat him, but very few other fighters would have beaten Ali then. Frazier fought a phenomenal fight.

And why are you knocking the 3rd Ali-Frazier fight? It was an tremendous fight. Frazier would have beaten almost any fighter that ever lived that night.

Frazier was as relentless as any heavyweight ever; and one of the best heavyweights of all time.

Well said.

The Great John L wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:Wow. What is with the Frazier bashing?
His defense was bad? He moved his head a lot and was more difficult to hit than most fighters with his style, and was certainly a better defensive fighter than Marciano.
You mentioned Frazier's wins over Ali, Mathis, Foster and Ellis as his biggest. That's pretty good right there. You forgot to mention that he beat Quarry (twice), Bonavena (twice), Chuvalo, and Bugner.

Ali wasn't at his absolute best when Frazier beat him, but very few other fighters would have beaten Ali then. Frazier fought a phenomenal fight.

And why are you knocking the 3rd Ali-Frazier fight? It was an tremendous fight. Frazier would have beaten almost any fighter that ever lived that night.

Frazier was as relentless as any heavyweight ever; and one of the best heavyweights of all time.

Well said.

Agree

Frazier was a truly great fighter who, IMO, prime-for-prime, would beat Ali.

Well, I would go as far as saying he would would beat Ali, prime for prime; no one would do that. However, Frazier was certainly one of the best of all time.

...i'm never sure of how i estimate frazier. at times i think he was up there with the very best...at other times...i think he might have been too one dimensional.

he would beat marciano, though. a fighter wouldn't have to be an all-time great to do that. :P