BoxRec

I just got done looking at an interesting list of the top 10 dirtiest & meanest fighters in the history of Boxing. I am curious to hear what the guys here at the Boxers of the Past have to say about this.

The list in thumbnail is
1. Harry Greb
2. Mike Tyson
3. Fritzie Zivic
4. Jake LaMotta
5. Rocky Graziano
6. Roberto Duran
7. Stanley Ketchel
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Tony Ayala jr.
10.Sandy Saddler

My initial thoughts are
1. They should have left the "meanest" part off the list because that can muddle up the issue.
2. Mike Tyson has some of the most imfamous moments in dirty tactic, trying to break a mans arm (was it Botha or Golata I cant remember) and of course the ear bite, but I feel he is up to high on this list.
3. Tony Ayala jr. is too insignificant in the pantheon of boxing to make the list, plus they put too much in about his out of the ring actions, which dont make him a dirty or mean fighter, just a poor excuse for of a person (or a piece of shit, whichever you prefer). If they wanted to include someone insignificant but dirty inside the ropes I would have picked the recently deceased Agapito Sanchez.
4. Sandy Saddler is to low on the list. He should be higher, maybe around 5 or 6?
5. Alittle too much about outside the ring stuff on alot of the boxers.

Here are the links to the two parts of the article.
Part I fighters 10-6
Part II fighters 5-1

Anyone know of other lists purely about dirty fighters?

JAHamilton77 wrote:I just got done looking at an interesting list of the top 10 dirtiest & meanest fighters in the history of Boxing. I am curious to hear what the guys here at the Boxers of the Past have to say about this.

The list in thumbnail is
1. Harry Greb
2. Mike Tyson
3. Fritzie Zivic
4. Jake LaMotta
5. Rocky Graziano
6. Roberto Duran
7. Stanley Ketchel
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Tony Ayala jr.
10.Sandy Saddler

My initial thoughts are
1. They should have left the "meanest" part off the list because that can muddle up the issue.
2. Mike Tyson has some of the most imfamous moments in dirty tactic, trying to break a mans arm (was it Botha or Golata I cant remember) and of course the ear bite, but I feel he is up to high on this list.
3. Tony Ayala jr. is too insignificant in the pantheon of boxing to make the list, plus they put too much in about his out of the ring actions, which dont make him a dirty or mean fighter, just a poor excuse for of a person (or a piece of shit, whichever you prefer). If they wanted to include someone insignificant but dirty inside the ropes I would have picked the recently deceased Agapito Sanchez.
4. Sandy Saddler is to low on the list. He should be higher, maybe around 5 or 6?
5. Alittle too much about outside the ring stuff on alot of the boxers.

Here are the links to the two parts of the article.
Part I fighters 10-6
Part II fighters 5-1

Anyone know of other lists purely about dirty fighters?

Evander Holyfield and Bernard Hopkins surely qualify for a honorable mention.

The author of that article has Tyson from Hells Kitchen. He was from bed stuy I believe. Next thing ya know folks will be saying he was a Westie.

Whoever wrote this article doesnt know shit about boxing history. half the people on his list wouldnt crack the top fifty much less the top ten.

Would Battling Nelson be considered a dirty fighter, with his "scissor" punch?

Where the heck is Evander Holyfield? His headbutting is notorious.

Mike was a bit dirty even before he lost Rooney, I remember Tyson hitting Berbick with elbows.

although on occasion Roberto could get ugly I don't consider him in the top of this catagory at all.....am I looking through rose colored glasses here? Somebody chime in...I just don't see it.

I have to agree with that Duran wouldn't rabbit punch or other dirty tactics. He would just intimidate and overwhelm his opponent, that was basically his style.

Tyson was actually from Brownsville.

I think in my opinion, at Heavyweight, concerning title challengers, Tom Sharkey was the most dirty fighter there was, doing everything that he could possibly think of when he faced Jim Jefferies.

Honorable mentions, Jim Flynn when he faced Jack Johnson, never in my life have I seen so many damn head butts outside of Holyfield!

"Mysterious" Billy Smith was the dirtiest fighter to ever lace up the gloves.
How anyone could leave him off a list like that is beyond me, unless the person just simply did not know about Smith! Not only was Smith dirty, but he was one tough SOB. I think it was "Barbados" Joe Walcott that Smith had promised to gouge out his eyes in they're bout, which would usually be something to take not so literal, but with Smith you had better take it serious as he was devious enough to do anything in the ring.

Off those listed in the article a few I agree with and a few I don't:

Harry Greb---I would have him listed, but not numbetr one...maybe around 8, or 9. Fritzie Zivic---I would probably rank number 2 behind Smith.

Greb could get dirty dont get me wrong but the offense that he committed most often and that was most associated with him during his career was to hold and hit. Compared with some other fighters thats not a drop in the bucket. Greb's dirtiness has been blown so far out of proportion its ridiculous. Also, he didnt have the American Light Heavyweight championship when he faced Tunney the first time. Tunney had it and Greb took it from him. Greb wasnt middleweight champion as the author of this terrible article suggests. Greb wouldnt win the world championship for more than a year.

I mean, Jack Dempsey, Tony Ayala, Jake LaMotta (who Ive rarely ever heard about being dirty in ringside accounts), Duran? Please! Yes Dempsey could rabbit Rabbit punch and yes he fouled Sharkey, but nobody ever considered him an overly dirty fighter. Tony Ayala's career wasnt even close to being long enough to be considered one of the dirtiest fighters ever. Ive seen most of his fights and barring maybe two or three I never saw anything dirty in any of them. You could go on and on but this guy illustrates well enough that he doesnt know what hes talking about so whats the point.

Who has the record for most DQ's in a career ? I know Ted "Kid" Lewis had 5. Should that count for anything ?

>>>Who has the record for most DQ's in a career ?<<<

Probably "Mysterious" Billy Smith...he had 10, or 12 DQ losses!

Billy Papke should be on the top 10 list, he even "out-dirtied" Stanley Ketchell in one of their fights by punching him in the throat before the fight started!

Kid McCoy is another, though he was more smart than dirty, but if he saw a chance to get one by the ref, he certainly did not hesitate. Billy Papke is a good call though.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:I think in my opinion, at Heavyweight, concerning title challengers, Tom Sharkey was the most dirty fighter there was, doing everything that he could possibly think of when he faced Jim Jefferies.

Honorable mentions, Jim Flynn when he faced Jack Johnson, never in my life have I seen so many damn head butts outside of Holyfield!

I didn't see either fight so I'm not doubting what you are saying but I know that neither fight lasted beyond the first round so to be rated among the top in headbutts he would have had to do all of that in a very short time span.

Great fighter and generally clean but surely Larry Holmes' thumb deserves an honourable mention? Ask Earnie Shavers,Leroy Jones or Scott Frank....

Scott Laduex also claimed that Holmes thumbed him.

This thread has potential. Ok, I nominate George Godfrey as a dirty fighter. He was the king of low blows. Golota had nothing on him.

Flump wrote:Great fighter and generally clean but surely Larry Holmes' thumb deserves an honourable mention? Ask Earnie Shavers,Leroy Jones or Scott Frank....

Yes he was a master.

My list:
Fritzie zivic. Rough with the thumbs. "Always work the refs blind side".
Mysterious Billy Smith. Barrys right about this guy.
Bummy Davis. Wildman , when his temper went the polce were needed .
Tony Galento. Just about ruined Lou Nova.
Billy Papke.
Tyson. When he got frustrated he got dirty.
Harry Greb. Threw everythig including his head at opponents.
Sandy Saddler. Good Judoka.
Gus Dorazio.
Andrew Golota. Out of control.

Im sure there are many more. These guys are off the top of my head.

Decagon wrote:I'm not sure whether or not Greb was a dirty fighter, or simply a product of his times. In Greb's era, there were a hundred fighters just as dirty.

Yeah , I hesitated a bit before I threw him on the list. Supposedly he broke Tunneys nose with a headbutt .And fouled some in his fights. He may also have just been super aggresive. I wish there was some film of him out there.

JAHamilton77 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2006, 18:27 I just got done looking at an interesting list of the top 10 dirtiest & meanest fighters in the history of Boxing.

Dirty means dirty, mean means mean one fighter might be mean as f*ck, without being dirty, and vice-versa.

Dempsey, Duran, Harry Greb... I didn't watch a lot of footage of them (except for Duran), but I picture them as meaner than dirtier.

Dirtiest boxers I've seen in my time are: Bernard Hopkins, Andre Ward, and Anthony Joshua.

John Ruiz is going to be mentioned. Clinching in that amounts was a clear violation of the rules, that's not boxing.