BoxRec

after his dominant win over jeff lacy you have to consider joe calzaghe's legacy, especially considering may not be fighting for more than another 3-4 years...

where does joe stand now in terms of entrance into international boxing HOF?

I voted for needs 1 or 2 big wins. Lacy was big but not GREAT. He needs to beat Kessler and Beyer/Mundine - he will be unified and linear if he does that so you can't argue about that as a great achievement.

If he beats BHOPs it would be great but somewhat tainted with BHOPs advanced age.

his career's not over so give him time. hopkins got his HOF cementing wins - following a long title reign - from age 36-41. Calzaghe's 34 and I'd say a win over the Kessler-Beyer winner would really make him a complete super middle champ. He's beaten the best Brits, the best Americans, but he needs to beat the best of Europe, where there have always been classy super middles. if he beats the kessler-beyer winner, he has all 4 titles, 19 title defenses, hard to argue with that

He's been champion since 1997 which is very good going, but all of his opponents have never been major names apart from Lacy. He could unify the belts for starters, then get either Johnson or Hopkins. Tarver's damaged goods after last weekend now.

I think a couple of big wins will probably do it. Say the Kessler-Beyer winner, and a win over a top lightheavyweight, or a win over a bulked-up Taylor.

There are worse fighters than Calzaghe in the HOF, it's not simply undoubted, all time greats and legends who make it in. Especially with the number of fighters they induct these days.

Think it will be hard for Joe now with the Hopkins win over Tarver... Unless Adameck or Erdei do the same (beat up Tarver) and then Joe beats the one who did it.... I just cannot see he will quite make HoF status.

As things officially stand, Hopkins retired and Tarver still probably the #1 Light Heavyweight things don't look good up there. Even if Joe beats Tarver he would be #1 in a crappy time in the devision, as he is now.

Lets not forget, love him or hate him, there was a geniune case for Joe to only be the #2 Super Middleweight for a large portion of his reign. Ottke partially unified the belts long before Calzaghe did and beat many of Joe's best opponents before Joe got his hands on them.

If he beats Taylor or Wright, it will be always be argued that he beat a bulk up middle (or light middle in Wrights case).

Joe can quickly, if he does something special - but I cannot see it, unless he wants to take on O Neil Bell at Cruiserweight.

All time greats have got to start as an underdog as some point in their career, I still think the only time Joe did this was vs Mark Delaney (and I favoured Joe heavily there).... he might have been vs Lacy, but wasn't initially and he did have home advantage.

I suppose some guys like Roy Jones can still acquire HoF status and always be the favourite, but Jones has provided more of a "challenge" to his career than Joe has.

If Barry McGuigan has manged to seal a place in the HOF then Calzaghe will walk in.
The HOF standards seem to have dropped lately,so by the time Calzaghe's illegible,it's possible that he has done enough already.

Bear in mind the WBO belt is not held in high esteem or at least hasn't been in the past by most Americans. So in some minds over there Calzaghe has only just won a (IBF) world title. That could count against him.

stujones wrote:Think it will be hard for Joe now with the Hopkins win over Tarver... Unless Adameck or Erdei do the same (beat up Tarver) and then Joe beats the one who did it.... I just cannot see he will quite make HoF status.

As things officially stand, Hopkins retired and Tarver still probably the #1 Light Heavyweight things don't look good up there. Even if Joe beats Tarver he would be #1 in a crappy time in the devision, as he is now.

Lets not forget, love him or hate him, there was a geniune case for Joe to only be the #2 Super Middleweight for a large portion of his reign. Ottke partially unified the belts long before Calzaghe did and beat many of Joe's best opponents before Joe got his hands on them.

If he beats Taylor or Wright, it will be always be argued that he beat a bulk up middle (or light middle in Wrights case).

Joe can quickly, if he does something special - but I cannot see it, unless he wants to take on O Neil Bell at Cruiserweight.

All time greats have got to start as an underdog as some point in their career, I still think the only time Joe did this was vs Mark Delaney (and I favoured Joe heavily there).... he might have been vs Lacy, but wasn't initially and he did have home advantage.

I suppose some guys like Roy Jones can still acquire HoF status and always be the favourite, but Jones has provided more of a "challenge" to his career than Joe has.

if he beats the Kessler-Beyer winner, he should deserve to get in. he needs to best one of the elite of Europe. The Europeans are the most precise boxers around the s/m division. Joe's beaten plenty of top power punchers, let's see him beat a class act in terms of skill.

On Calzaghe's side is that he demolished a highly regarded title holder - beat Lacy so badly that now ppl think Lacy is rubbish. Also on his side is longevity - if you're going to get found out you usually slip up before 9 years. That can't be overlooked.

nickd wrote:Bear in mind the WBO belt is not held in high esteem or at least hasn't been in the past by most Americans. So in some minds over there Calzaghe has only just won a (IBF) world title. That could count against him.

yeah but it's preposterous to say he's just won his first world title. he was beating foes as good as Ottke's and Ottke was WBA/IBF champ.

yiddo14 wrote:If Barry McGuigan has manged to seal a place in the HOF then Calzaghe will walk in.
The HOF standards seem to have dropped lately,so by the time Calzaghe's illegible,it's possible that he has done enough already.

Yeah I agree, if Bazza is in, then Calzaghe has alreay done more than enough.

viciousmaussa wrote:

nickd wrote:Bear in mind the WBO belt is not held in high esteem or at least hasn't been in the past by most Americans. So in some minds over there Calzaghe has only just won a (IBF) world title. That could count against him.

yeah but it's preposterous to say he's just won his first world title. he was beating foes as good as Ottke's and Ottke was WBA/IBF champ.

Of course. But while Ottke was unifying the then considered better titles Calzaghe was strolling through one sided fights against an assortment of has beens and never weres set up by Warren and the WBO.

There are no opponents that Calzaghe can beat who can give Calzaghe any sort of credible hall of fame lagacy.

All options are either too old (ie Hopkins), unknown (ie Kessler), already been exposed (ie Tarver) or shot (ie Jones Jr).

A few relatively big wins for Calzaghe can not surely eradicate the fact that he has wasted his best years hiding behind his WBO belt, fighting far too many shitty mandatories.

nickd wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:

nickd wrote:Bear in mind the WBO belt is not held in high esteem or at least hasn't been in the past by most Americans. So in some minds over there Calzaghe has only just won a (IBF) world title. That could count against him.

yeah but it's preposterous to say he's just won his first world title. he was beating foes as good as Ottke's and Ottke was WBA/IBF champ.

Of course. But while Ottke was unifying the then considered better titles Calzaghe was strolling through one sided fights against an assortment of has beens and never weres set up by Warren and the WBO.

It's the WBU and all those that followed that don't count as world titles. silly to say one's better than the other. ie Paul Briggs saying the WBC is best. Not fair to call Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall and Reid has beens. The first 2 lost their titles closely to Ottke. They weren't shot all of a sudden when Calzaghe fought them & he did a more convincing job than Ottke. Reid went on to beat on Ottke. He was fighting world class fighters.

Lacy was supposed to beat him cos he was peaking. Clzaghe beats him and that makes him a 'never was'.


If Kessler beats Beyer, he is name enough he'll be WBA and WBC champion. If the Americans can't accept anything for not being American they can piss off or do some research into the super middle history. Instead of trying to make up history, ie 'Lacy as 168-lb ruler'. Polls show that majority of media voters had Lacy as the #1 super middle before March 4th!

That's what it all boils down to, not American enough. Well what Yanks can he fight? If Winky is too small, if Tarver is destroyed, if Taylor isn't yet a super middle, if Hopkins is retired?

fried bread wrote:

nickd wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:yeah but it's preposterous to say he's just won his first world title. he was beating foes as good as Ottke's and Ottke was WBA/IBF champ.

Of course. But while Ottke was unifying the then considered better titles Calzaghe was strolling through one sided fights against an assortment of has beens and never weres set up by Warren and the WBO.

It's the WBU and all those that followed that don't count as world titles. silly to say one's better than the other. ie Paul Briggs saying the WBC is best. Not fair to call Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall and Reid has beens. The first 2 lost their titles closely to Ottke. They weren't shot all of a sudden when Calzaghe fought them & he did a more convincing job than Ottke. Reid went on to beat on Ottke. He was fighting world class fighters.

Lacy was supposed to beat him cos he was peaking. Clzaghe beats him and that makes him a 'never was'.


If Kessler beats Beyer, he is name enough he'll be WBA and WBC champion. If the Americans can't accept anything for not being American they can piss off or do some research into the super middle history. Instead of trying to make up history, ie 'Lacy as 168-lb ruler'. Polls show that majority of media voters had Lacy as the #1 super middle before March 4th!

That's what it all boils down to, not American enough. Well what Yanks can he fight? If Winky is too small, if Tarver is destroyed, if Taylor isn't yet a super middle, if Hopkins is retired?

Rubbish. When Calzaghe won the WBO belt back in 97 it was barely recognised in the USA if at all. Of course now the WBO is considered legit but that is only recently that has been the case Stateside.

I never called Lacy specifically a never was, in fact I still think he's the third of fourth best supermiddleweight and can come again. Just Calzaghe was all wrong for him and of course an exceptional performance on the night helped.

Between options 2 and 3. He needs 2, 3 really big wins. Kessler, Woods, and then whoever is the leading l-h at the time - if he can win all these he'll be a sure hall-of-famer.

But I fear with his manger all these speculations are mute.

I think that given today's criteria I'd say Calzaghe will make it in, one more big win would cement it, but he's already achieved more than many in the hall of fame, though it's questionable whether he's as famous as those lesser lights who made it.

McGuigan got in there because of his huge popularity on both sides of the atlantic, something which cannot be said of Joe, but I think his long tenure as champion and his style, which has produced some pretty conclusive wins, will be enough.

nickd wrote: ...When Calzaghe won the WBO belt back in 97 it was barely recognised in the USA if at all. Of course now the WBO is considered legit but that is only recently that has been the case Stateside.

That is 100% correct. I went to Vegas in the summer of '97 and picked up loads of boxing mags, including The Ring. At the time, Naseem Hamed was particularly successful. In all the magazines he was recognised for his skill and ability - but not as a World Champion, on the basis he carried the WBO version.

nickd wrote:

fried bread wrote:

nickd wrote: Of course. But while Ottke was unifying the then considered better titles Calzaghe was strolling through one sided fights against an assortment of has beens and never weres set up by Warren and the WBO.

It's the WBU and all those that followed that don't count as world titles. silly to say one's better than the other. ie Paul Briggs saying the WBC is best. Not fair to call Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall and Reid has beens. The first 2 lost their titles closely to Ottke. They weren't shot all of a sudden when Calzaghe fought them & he did a more convincing job than Ottke. Reid went on to beat on Ottke. He was fighting world class fighters.

Lacy was supposed to beat him cos he was peaking. Clzaghe beats him and that makes him a 'never was'.


If Kessler beats Beyer, he is name enough he'll be WBA and WBC champion. If the Americans can't accept anything for not being American they can piss off or do some research into the super middle history. Instead of trying to make up history, ie 'Lacy as 168-lb ruler'. Polls show that majority of media voters had Lacy as the #1 super middle before March 4th!

That's what it all boils down to, not American enough. Well what Yanks can he fight? If Winky is too small, if Tarver is destroyed, if Taylor isn't yet a super middle, if Hopkins is retired?

Rubbish. When Calzaghe won the WBO belt back in 97 it was barely recognised in the USA if at all. Of course now the WBO is considered legit but that is only recently that has been the case Stateside.

I never called Lacy specifically a never was, in fact I still think he's the third of fourth best supermiddleweight and can come again. Just Calzaghe was all wrong for him and of course an exceptional performance on the night helped.

hey, boxing is global in case you didn't realize. when Naz went over to America no one denied he was world champ. Sure, the Ring always had their hermetic ways (Boxing news I like for putting 'world champion' in inverted comma), but who was champ if naz wasn't? WBO has been recognized in England and Germany for a long time. Europe has bossed super middle since that brief time when Toney and Jones were around. so what if it took america longer to recognize it? they recognized the IBF when Larry Holmes grabbed it (caused by WBC refusing to sanction a fight w Marvis Frazier!), and Holmes fought some poor opponents for the IBF title

Tarver was #1 at light heavy after giving up his WBC belt and trading it in for the IBO. In fact, Barrera earned #1 recognition at featherweight after beating Naz for the IBO. Beating a former WBO champ for the IBO!

The WBC have santioned some of the worst mismatches in history. Those two who W Gomez beat, who had made up records. Barrera vs Mzonke Fana - is that much worst than Scott Harrison-Kebede (WBO)? Ppl can look at the Calzaghe-Ashira & use it as a mark against the WBO, but other bodies have been doing this for aeons

viciousmaussa wrote:

nickd wrote:

fried bread wrote: It's the WBU and all those that followed that don't count as world titles. silly to say one's better than the other. ie Paul Briggs saying the WBC is best. Not fair to call Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall and Reid has beens. The first 2 lost their titles closely to Ottke. They weren't shot all of a sudden when Calzaghe fought them & he did a more convincing job than Ottke. Reid went on to beat on Ottke. He was fighting world class fighters.

Lacy was supposed to beat him cos he was peaking. Clzaghe beats him and that makes him a 'never was'.


If Kessler beats Beyer, he is name enough he'll be WBA and WBC champion. If the Americans can't accept anything for not being American they can piss off or do some research into the super middle history. Instead of trying to make up history, ie 'Lacy as 168-lb ruler'. Polls show that majority of media voters had Lacy as the #1 super middle before March 4th!

That's what it all boils down to, not American enough. Well what Yanks can he fight? If Winky is too small, if Tarver is destroyed, if Taylor isn't yet a super middle, if Hopkins is retired?

Rubbish. When Calzaghe won the WBO belt back in 97 it was barely recognised in the USA if at all. Of course now the WBO is considered legit but that is only recently that has been the case Stateside.

I never called Lacy specifically a never was, in fact I still think he's the third of fourth best supermiddleweight and can come again. Just Calzaghe was all wrong for him and of course an exceptional performance on the night helped.

hey, boxing is global in case you didn't realize. when Naz went over to America no one denied he was world champ. Sure, the Ring always had their hermetic ways (Boxing news I like for putting 'world champion' in inverted comma), but who was champ if naz wasn't? WBO has been recognized in England and Germany for a long time. Europe has bossed super middle since that brief time when Toney and Jones were around. so what if it took america longer to recognize it? they recognized the IBF when Larry Holmes grabbed it (caused by WBC refusing to sanction a fight w Marvis Frazier!), and Holmes fought some poor opponents for the IBF title

Tarver was #1 at light heavy after giving up his WBC belt and trading it in for the IBO. In fact, Barrera earned #1 recognition at featherweight after beating Naz for the IBO. Beating a former WBO champ for the IBO!

The WBC have santioned some of the worst mismatches in history. Those two who W Gomez beat, who had made up records. Barrera vs Mzonke Fana - is that much worst than Scott Harrison-Kebede (WBO)? Ppl can look at the Calzaghe-Ashira & use it as a mark against the WBO, but other bodies have been doing this for aeons

Yeah I know but my original point which we seem to have deviated from is that American perception of Calzaghe is a lot different to the UK perception. And the Hall of Fame is American based and run lets not forget.

viciousmaussa wrote:Sure, the Ring always had their hermetic ways (Boxing news I like for putting 'world champion' in inverted comma), but who was champ if naz wasn't?

Tom 'boom boom' Johnson and/or Wilfredo Vasquez - and legitimately so. Both long reigning champions, with recognised title belts, each of who had faced many top class fighters.

he's already there in my opinion. certainly on the level of requirement the hall of fame demand.

18 defences, 9 yrs as champ (in october), dominant wins over good top 10 opponents.

he just needs to "pad the resume" from here on in.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think that given today's criteria I'd say Calzaghe will make it in, one more big win would cement it, but he's already achieved more than many in the hall of fame, though it's questionable whether he's as famous as those lesser lights who made it.

i'd compare calzaghe's reign to someone like eusebio pedroza. pedroza held the wba title for 7 yrs at featherweight.

during that time he missed out on fighting salvador sanchez, who was the best featherweight of the time. he also didn't fight azumah nelson, who was arguably the 2nd best of his time.

calzaghe has missed out on ottke and beyer, who are the longest reigning title holders since calzaghe won his title.

ottke and beyer are clearly not on sanchez and nelson's level. but they were still names that calzaghe missed.

but like pedroza, calzaghe still deserves his place in history by defeating some good opponents and impressive longevity.

in the bag.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:he just needs to "pad the resume" from here on in.

You are joking, arent you?

stujones wrote: If he beats Taylor or Wright, it will be always be argued that he beat a bulk up middle (or light middle in Wrights case).

Before the Tarver fight, Hopkins built his whole legacy on beating 2 bulked up fighters, and it wasn't long before that untill he got the respect he deserved. So that shouldn't be the case. Not to mention Taylor is naturally bigger than Joe, 6'1 and comes to fight at 170+ lbs.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: McGuigan got in there because of his huge popularity on both sides of the atlantic, something which cannot be said of Joe, but I think his long tenure as champion and his style, which has produced some pretty conclusive wins, will be enough.

True & it's not like the yanks are ever going to warm to Joe when he keeps beating up their champs They only truely appreciated Lewis after he retired.


I feel if lesser fighters have made it into HOF, then Joe should walk in no probs. Though I'd like to see him beat Kessler (if he gets past Beyer) then Taylor to seal the deal, which I think he can and will.