BoxRec

http://www.boxingbanter.com/viewnews.php?p=85#85


What do you guys think? ;)

There is no such thing as an accurate P4P. Especially when Calzaghe is put above Mayweather.

Hah, not even close...I understand Floyd at 2 or 3 at the lowest, but 5 is just hatred for the man.

Barrera barely beats Juarez, and is #3, and Floyd handling Judah keeps him at 5?

Calzaghe at 4? Nope. Somewhere in the top 10 yes, but not 4.

Hatton # 6 after almost LOSING to a pretty much unknown guy who had the jr version of the WBA belt drops the same # of spots as Floyd did, who beat a guy who was the man at 147 not 6 months before...his math doesn't make sense.

The fact he had Raheem in his top 20 p4p after beating Morales is a joke.

Mattyp151 wrote:Hah, not even close...I understand Floyd at 2 or 3 at the lowest, but 5 is just hatred for the man.

Barrera barely beats Juarez, and is #3, and Floyd handling Judah keeps him at 5?

Calzaghe at 4? Nope. Somewhere in the top 10 yes, but not 4.

Hatton # 6 after almost LOSING to a pretty much unknown guy who had the jr version of the WBA belt drops the same # of spots as Floyd did, who beat a guy who was the man at 147 not 6 months before...his math doesn't make sense.

The fact he had Raheem in his top 20 p4p after beating Morales is a joke.

So that's a no then, Matty?

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:Hah, not even close...I understand Floyd at 2 or 3 at the lowest, but 5 is just hatred for the man.

Barrera barely beats Juarez, and is #3, and Floyd handling Judah keeps him at 5?

Calzaghe at 4? Nope. Somewhere in the top 10 yes, but not 4.

Hatton # 6 after almost LOSING to a pretty much unknown guy who had the jr version of the WBA belt drops the same # of spots as Floyd did, who beat a guy who was the man at 147 not 6 months before...his math doesn't make sense.

The fact he had Raheem in his top 20 p4p after beating Morales is a joke.

So that's a no then, Matty?

Eh, I'm on the fence....

It's a pretty poor ranking - the Brits are way too high, Maywaether and DLH too low.

Mattyp151 wrote:Hah, not even close...I understand Floyd at 2 or 3 at the lowest, but 5 is just hatred for the man.

Barrera barely beats Juarez, and is #3, and Floyd handling Judah keeps him at 5?

Calzaghe at 4? Nope. Somewhere in the top 10 yes, but not 4.

Hatton # 6 after almost LOSING to a pretty much unknown guy who had the jr version of the WBA belt drops the same # of spots as Floyd did, who beat a guy who was the man at 147 not 6 months before...his math doesn't make sense.

The fact he had Raheem in his top 20 p4p after beating Morales is a joke.

Well I think it's the most reasonable list I have seen.

Why is Floyd No.1 all the time? Because HBO say so?

Jim Lampley keeps saying that Floyd Mayweather is P4P the best fighter in the World like it's some kind of fact. I agreed that Mayweather beat Judah by 2 rounds, well, so did Baldimor. And Judah didn't even last 2 rounds against Kostya Tszyu.

Is Mayweather really all that he's hyped up to be? Because on paper he doesn't seem so.

On Calzaghe, it says: "He's 41-0-0 (31 KO's), he's defended his WBO belt 18 times! In those defenses have included 7 former World champions who all reined for a significant length of time and has unified the WBO with the IBF belt with one of the most devastating pure boxing performances seen in a ring for years."

What active fighter can compare to this?

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:Hah, not even close...I understand Floyd at 2 or 3 at the lowest, but 5 is just hatred for the man.

Barrera barely beats Juarez, and is #3, and Floyd handling Judah keeps him at 5?

Calzaghe at 4? Nope. Somewhere in the top 10 yes, but not 4.

Hatton # 6 after almost LOSING to a pretty much unknown guy who had the jr version of the WBA belt drops the same # of spots as Floyd did, who beat a guy who was the man at 147 not 6 months before...his math doesn't make sense.

The fact he had Raheem in his top 20 p4p after beating Morales is a joke.

Well I think it's the most reasonable list I have seen.

Why is Floyd No.1 all the time? Because HBO say so?

Jim Lampley keeps saying that Floyd Mayweather is P4P the best fighter in the World like it's some kind of fact. I agreed that Mayweather beat Judah by 2 rounds, well, so did Baldimor. And Judah didn't even last 2 rounds against Kostya Tszyu.

Is Mayweather really all that he's hyped up to be? Because on paper he doesn't seem so.

On Calzaghe, it says: "He's 41-0-0 (31 KO's), he's defended his WBO belt 18 times! In those defenses have included 7 former World champions who all reined for a significant length of time and has unified the WBO with the IBF belt with one of the most devastating pure boxing performances seen in a ring for years."

What active fighter can compare to this?

Haha, name another fighter that is as skilled as Floyd is in the ring? No one is. The guy hardly gets hit, he is one of the most accurate punchers in the game, and he has had quite a resume. Castillo twice, Corrales, Judah, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez isn't exactly shit.

7 former world champs: Lacy(vacant), Mitchell(1 was vacant), Brewer(vacant), Woodhall (finally not a vacant title), Eubank....can't find the other 2.

Why does FLoyd even get No 1 in most ratings? Most seem think you have to beat a P4p fighter. Castillo wasn't one until recently.

Haha, name another fighter that is as skilled as Floyd is in the ring? No one is. The guy hardly gets hit, he is one of the most accurate punchers in the game, and he has had quite a resume. Castillo twice, Corrales, Judah, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez isn't exactly shit.

7 former world champs: Lacy(vacant), Mitchell(1 was vacant), Brewer(vacant), Woodhall (finally not a vacant title), Eubank....can't find the other 2.

Judah was coming off a loss to Baldomir and frauded America with a PPV! Gatti should never of boxed him. He's been troubled more than Joe has like with Castillo and was down Vs Judah or just as troubled.

I'd say Calzaghe is as skilled and can fight at a much faster pace for someone much bigger than FLoyd.

Max Molyneux wrote:Why does FLoyd even get No 1 in most ratings? Most seem think you have to beat a P4p fighter. Castillo wasn't one until recently.

Haha, name another fighter that is as skilled as Floyd is in the ring? No one is. The guy hardly gets hit, he is one of the most accurate punchers in the game, and he has had quite a resume. Castillo twice, Corrales, Judah, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez isn't exactly shit.

7 former world champs: Lacy(vacant), Mitchell(1 was vacant), Brewer(vacant), Woodhall (finally not a vacant title), Eubank....can't find the other 2.

Judah was coming off a loss to Baldomir and frauded America with a PPV! Gatti should never of boxed him. He's been troubled more than Joe has like with Castillo and was down Vs Judah or just as troubled.

I'd say Calzaghe is as skilled and can fight at a much faster pace for someone much bigger than FLoyd.

Since when does pace = skill? Pace and workrate merely shows what style you like to fight at and what works for you. I'm sure Floyd could go out and throw 1200 punches if he chose to, but why not put yourself in situations where you avoid getting hit, and land about 40% of your punches in return. Yeah, he could open up, land about 30%, but land more overall punches, but in return comes the chance to get hit back...boxing carries two basic principles...hit and don't get hit, he does both about as well as any can.

PS: Joe's slapping and cuffing punches show he's not even closely as skilled as Floyd. Joe has a good workrate and carries very good power, but to think he's as skilled as FLoyd is a stretch.

Mattyp151 wrote:Haha, name another fighter that is as skilled as Floyd is in the ring? No one is. The guy hardly gets hit, he is one of the most accurate punchers in the game, and he has had quite a resume. Castillo twice, Corrales, Judah, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez isn't exactly shit.

7 former world champs: Lacy(vacant), Mitchell(1 was vacant), Brewer(vacant), Woodhall (finally not a vacant title), Eubank....can't find the other 2.

Remember, Floyd Mayweather lost the 1st five rounds against Zab Judah on most peoples scorecards, and the HBO commentators were also laughing and referring to Mayweathers, "hit once and hold" tactics as John Ruiz. Mayweather also suffered a legitimate KD.

Then by about the 6th round, Zab Judah did what he always does and decided to stop fighting. It's exactly the same thing he did against Baldimor in his previous fight and the same reason he lost.

Mayweather beat Judah by 2 rounds, and it was Zab Judah that lost the fight for himself. Mayweather didn't have too much of a say in it.

Can you imagine many other fighters P4P, struggling that much with a fighter of Judah's calibre, and question mark chin?

I suspect perhaps you are watching Mayweather fights with blinkers on, and not taking in what is really happening?

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:Haha, name another fighter that is as skilled as Floyd is in the ring? No one is. The guy hardly gets hit, he is one of the most accurate punchers in the game, and he has had quite a resume. Castillo twice, Corrales, Judah, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez isn't exactly shit.

7 former world champs: Lacy(vacant), Mitchell(1 was vacant), Brewer(vacant), Woodhall (finally not a vacant title), Eubank....can't find the other 2.

Remember, Floyd Mayweather lost the 1st five rounds against Zab Judah on most peoples scorecards, and the HBO commentators were also laughing and referring to Mayweathers, "hit once and hold" tactics as John Ruiz. Mayweather also suffered a legitimate KD.

Then by about the 6th round, Zab Judah did what he always does and decided to stop fighting. It's exactly the same thing he did against Baldimor in his previous fight and the same reason he lost.

Mayweather beat Judah by 2 rounds, and it was Zab Judah that lost the fight for himself. Mayweather didn't have too much of a say in it.

Can you imagine many other fighters P4P, struggling that much with a fighter of Judah's calibre, and question mark chin?

I suspect perhaps you are watching Mayweather fights with blinkers on, and not taking in what is really happening?

HA, ok, show me one person who had Floyd losing the first 5...Floyd beat Zab badly in the fifth, he clearly won the third, and gave Zab the 12th.

By your standards "most" people would have that fight a draw, and that's bullshit. Zab gassed out in the 4th after hit caught Floyd with a straight left and tried to follow up with about 8 hooks that hit nothing but gloves. After that moment in the 4th, Judah never fought for 3 minutes the rest of the fight. Bullshit insight on that fight from you...nice try.

Mattyp151 wrote:HA, ok, show me one person who had Floyd losing the first 5...Floyd beat Zab badly in the fifth, he clearly won the third, and gave Zab the 12th.

By your standards "most" people would have that fight a draw, and that's bullshit. Zab gassed out in the 4th after hit caught Floyd with a straight left and tried to follow up with about 8 hooks that hit nothing but gloves. After that moment in the 4th, Judah never fought for 3 minutes the rest of the fight. Bullshit insight on that fight from you...nice try.

Well Kostya Tszyu had Mayweather losing the 1st four rounds.

http://www.boxingbanter.com/viewnews.php?p=40977#40977

I'm not saying that Mayweather is shite, I'm just saying that a lot of people watch Mayweather fights with blinkers on.

Remember this is Zab Judah we're talking about here, Zab f**kin' Judah. I'm pretty confident that Zab Judah would not have lasted the distance P4P against some of the other fighters in the top 10 of that P4P list.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter, in fact when he did step up to World class he got flattened in less than 2 rounds against Tszyu. Mayweather was not even close to achieving anything like that when they fought.

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:HA, ok, show me one person who had Floyd losing the first 5...Floyd beat Zab badly in the fifth, he clearly won the third, and gave Zab the 12th.

By your standards "most" people would have that fight a draw, and that's bullshit. Zab gassed out in the 4th after hit caught Floyd with a straight left and tried to follow up with about 8 hooks that hit nothing but gloves. After that moment in the 4th, Judah never fought for 3 minutes the rest of the fight. Bullshit insight on that fight from you...nice try.

Well Kostya Tszyu had Mayweather losing the 1st four rounds.

http://www.boxingbanter.com/viewnews.php?p=40977#40977

I'm not saying that Mayweather is shite, I'm just saying that a lot of people watch Mayweather fights with blinkers on.

Remember this is Zab Judah we're talking about here, Zab f**kin' Judah. I'm pretty confident that Zab Judah would not have lasted the distance P4P against some of the other fighters in the top 10 of that P4P list.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter, in fact when he did step up to World class he got flattened in less than 2 rounds against Tszyu. Mayweather was not even close to achieving anything like that when they fought.

Mayweather doesn't carry the power Tszyu does, so that's moot. Mayweather isn't a KO guy, he looks to outbox. And the statement Zab wouldn't last against anyone else in that shitty list is dumb...how many fight at 147? Hatton and Mayweather are it...and with the way Hatton looked against Collazo...guess what, a fast, southpaw at 147, I'd say Judah would trouble Ricky quite a bit.

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:HA, ok, show me one person who had Floyd losing the first 5...Floyd beat Zab badly in the fifth, he clearly won the third, and gave Zab the 12th.

By your standards "most" people would have that fight a draw, and that's bullshit. Zab gassed out in the 4th after hit caught Floyd with a straight left and tried to follow up with about 8 hooks that hit nothing but gloves. After that moment in the 4th, Judah never fought for 3 minutes the rest of the fight. Bullshit insight on that fight from you...nice try.

Well Kostya Tszyu had Mayweather losing the 1st four rounds.

http://www.boxingbanter.com/viewnews.php?p=40977#40977

I'm not saying that Mayweather is shite, I'm just saying that a lot of people watch Mayweather fights with blinkers on.

Remember this is Zab Judah we're talking about here, Zab f**kin' Judah. I'm pretty confident that Zab Judah would not have lasted the distance P4P against some of the other fighters in the top 10 of that P4P list.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter, in fact when he did step up to World class he got flattened in less than 2 rounds against Tszyu. Mayweather was not even close to achieving anything like that when they fought.

What does it matter if he lost the first 4 rounds? It was a 12 round fight and I'm sure that Mayweather knew that he could win atleast 7 of those remaining 8. Zab Judah is as good as anyone in the early rounds, and if it wasn't for his focus and stamina lacking he would be around the top end of anyone's P4P list.

Mattyp151 wrote:Mayweather doesn't carry the power Tszyu does, so that's moot. Mayweather isn't a KO guy, he looks to outbox. And the statement Zab wouldn't last against anyone else in that shitty list is dumb...how many fight at 147? Hatton and Mayweather are it...and with the way Hatton looked against Collazo...guess what, a fast, southpaw at 147, I'd say Judah would trouble Ricky quite a bit.

Mayweather not having any power is definitely something you have to consider when rating him.

And talking up Zab Judah as World class fighter to try and add weight to Mayweather's lack lustre victory is not incredibly realistic in my eyes.

If we forget everything else, your P4P best fighter in the World just dragged out a close points victory over a fighter that has been demolished in 2 before, and was not only coming off a lose, he has been exposed before several times.

The P4P No.1 is supposed to be the best fighter in the World. Best fighters in the World are usually a little bit better than that.

I'm not trying to discredit Floyd Mayweather, I'm just a little surprised that people see him the way they do, when I've not seen anything that particularly impresses me.

Adversity wrote:
I'm not trying to discredit Floyd Mayweather

That's exactly what you're doing.

Judah is a world class talent boxer....no one questioned that. It's his mental capacity, or lack thereof, that everyone questioned. Lackluster victory hardly. He went in with one of the most skilled, not best because Judah isn't the complete package, and outboxed him over the course of the fight. He won 8-4 on most cards, 7-5 on a few. Not to mention he landed about 40% of his punches against one of the fastest men in boxing. But, because he didn't KO Judah, it's lack luster? Or because Judah took 4 rounds, it's lackluster? I'll admit, I'm one of the bigger Mayweather fans here, but I called the fight an early split, with Floyd dominating late as my predicition.

PS: Ask Jeff Lacy what power should do for you p4p rankings...the guy is still one of the hardest hitters in the game, and he wasn't on anyone's P4P and certainly isn't after the Calzaghe beating.

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:Mayweather doesn't carry the power Tszyu does, so that's moot. Mayweather isn't a KO guy, he looks to outbox. And the statement Zab wouldn't last against anyone else in that shitty list is dumb...how many fight at 147? Hatton and Mayweather are it...and with the way Hatton looked against Collazo...guess what, a fast, southpaw at 147, I'd say Judah would trouble Ricky quite a bit.

Mayweather not having any power is definitely something you have to consider when rating him.

And talking up Zab Judah as World class fighter to try and add weight to Mayweather's lack lustre victory is not incredibly realistic in my eyes.

If we forget everything else, your P4P best fighter in the World just dragged out a close points victory over a fighter that has been demolished in 2 before, and was not only coming off a lose, he has been exposed before several times.

The P4P No.1 is supposed to be the best fighter in the World. Best fighters in the World are usually a little bit better than that.

I'm not trying to discredit Floyd Mayweather,

No, of course not

Btw, 119:109, 117:111, 116:112 is close?

Mattyp151 wrote:

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:HA, ok, show me one person who had Floyd losing the first 5...Floyd beat Zab badly in the fifth, he clearly won the third, and gave Zab the 12th.

By your standards "most" people would have that fight a draw, and that's bullshit. Zab gassed out in the 4th after hit caught Floyd with a straight left and tried to follow up with about 8 hooks that hit nothing but gloves. After that moment in the 4th, Judah never fought for 3 minutes the rest of the fight. Bullshit insight on that fight from you...nice try.

Well Kostya Tszyu had Mayweather losing the 1st four rounds.

http://www.boxingbanter.com/viewnews.php?p=40977#40977

I'm not saying that Mayweather is shite, I'm just saying that a lot of people watch Mayweather fights with blinkers on.

Remember this is Zab Judah we're talking about here, Zab f**kin' Judah. I'm pretty confident that Zab Judah would not have lasted the distance P4P against some of the other fighters in the top 10 of that P4P list.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter, in fact when he did step up to World class he got flattened in less than 2 rounds against Tszyu. Mayweather was not even close to achieving anything like that when they fought.

Mayweather doesn't carry the power Tszyu does, so that's moot. Mayweather isn't a KO guy, he looks to outbox. And the statement Zab wouldn't last against anyone else in that shitty list is dumb...how many fight at 147? Hatton and Mayweather are it...and with the way Hatton looked against Collazo...guess what, a fast, southpaw at 147, I'd say Judah would trouble Ricky quite a bit.

you are forgetting margarito (would knock zab flat), and baldomir (ALREADY HAS beat him). You think Hatton would have stood for Judah's antics??? The second zab fell to sleep like he did against mayweather, hatton would have put him right on his arse. Collazo came to fight, and put on probably the best losing effort so far this year, thats why he gave ricky trouble, unlike zab he didnt lack motivational problems so didnt get disinterested half way through. Hatton would have KO'd judah in 6 on the performance against Mayweather.

By the way, 8 hooks which land on gloves is still a winning effort, despite not physically hurting mayweather, because they are unanswered punches, and letting the opponent dictate the aggression and the pace, a big mistake.

pundit wrote:[Btw, 119:109, 117:111, 116:112 is close?

That's just day-light robbery!

Mattyp151 wrote:[That's exactly what you're doing.

Judah is a world class talent boxer....no one questioned that. It's his mental capacity, or lack thereof, that everyone questioned. Lackluster victory hardly. He went in with one of the most skilled, not best because Judah isn't the complete package, and outboxed him over the course of the fight. He won 8-4 on most cards, 7-5 on a few. Not to mention he landed about 40% of his punches against one of the fastest men in boxing. But, because he didn't KO Judah, it's lack luster? Or because Judah took 4 rounds, it's lackluster? I'll admit, I'm one of the bigger Mayweather fans here, but I called the fight an early split, with Floyd dominating late as my predicition.

PS: Ask Jeff Lacy what power should do for you p4p rankings...the guy is still one of the hardest hitters in the game, and he wasn't on anyone's P4P and certainly isn't after the Calzaghe beating.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

You think Zab Judah would give Hatton problems?

Hatton is a far better fighter than Baldimor, and look what Baldimor was able to do.

Hatton would walk through Judah, and as soon as the first telling blows land, Judah would be on his bike quick smart. From there on it would just be a matter of time before Judah get's knocked out.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter. He can't handle getting hit.

i think jorge arce should be somewhere in that list.he is definitely a proven world class p4p fighter.

Ask Corrales and Gatti if Floyd has no power...

Adversity wrote:

Mattyp151 wrote:[That's exactly what you're doing.

Judah is a world class talent boxer....no one questioned that. It's his mental capacity, or lack thereof, that everyone questioned. Lackluster victory hardly. He went in with one of the most skilled, not best because Judah isn't the complete package, and outboxed him over the course of the fight. He won 8-4 on most cards, 7-5 on a few. Not to mention he landed about 40% of his punches against one of the fastest men in boxing. But, because he didn't KO Judah, it's lack luster? Or because Judah took 4 rounds, it's lackluster? I'll admit, I'm one of the bigger Mayweather fans here, but I called the fight an early split, with Floyd dominating late as my predicition.

PS: Ask Jeff Lacy what power should do for you p4p rankings...the guy is still one of the hardest hitters in the game, and he wasn't on anyone's P4P and certainly isn't after the Calzaghe beating.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

You think Zab Judah would give Hatton problems?

Hatton is a far better fighter than Baldimor, and look what Baldimor was able to do.

Hatton would walk through Judah, and as soon as the first telling blows land, Judah would be on his bike quick smart. From there on it would just be a matter of time before Judah get's knocked out.

Zab Judah is not a great fighter. He can't handle getting hit.

He can't handle getting hit...how many times has he been KOed? Yeah, he's been wobbled by guys, but being buzzed by Corley isn't a terrible thing, it happened to Floyd, and he just wasn't mentally there the night he fought Baldomir. I thought Zab was just a glass jaw, but when you watch his other fights, and watch his Baldomir fight, he wasn't even 50% of his ability.

As for the Tszyu KO...tell me how many guys get caught square by Kostya and get up and fight? Not many.

Mattyp151 wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Why does FLoyd even get No 1 in most ratings? Most seem think you have to beat a P4p fighter. Castillo wasn't one until recently.

Haha, name another fighter that is as skilled as Floyd is in the ring? No one is. The guy hardly gets hit, he is one of the most accurate punchers in the game, and he has had quite a resume. Castillo twice, Corrales, Judah, Gatti, Chavez, Hernandez isn't exactly shit.

7 former world champs: Lacy(vacant), Mitchell(1 was vacant), Brewer(vacant), Woodhall (finally not a vacant title), Eubank....can't find the other 2.

Judah was coming off a loss to Baldomir and frauded America with a PPV! Gatti should never of boxed him. He's been troubled more than Joe has like with Castillo and was down Vs Judah or just as troubled.

I'd say Calzaghe is as skilled and can fight at a much faster pace for someone much bigger than FLoyd.

Since when does pace = skill? Pace and workrate merely shows what style you like to fight at and what works for you. I'm sure Floyd could go out and throw 1200 punches if he chose to, but why not put yourself in situations where you avoid getting hit, and land about 40% of your punches in return. Yeah, he could open up, land about 30%, but land more overall punches, but in return comes the chance to get hit back...boxing carries two basic principles...hit and don't get hit, he does both about as well as any can.

PS: Joe's slapping and cuffing punches show he's not even closely as skilled as Floyd. Joe has a good workrate and carries very good power, but to think he's as skilled as FLoyd is a stretch.

Calzaghe can handle pressure too unlike Floyd and can fight off the ropes. Just because he often cuffs doesn't make him less skilled. Calzaghe hardly gets hit either.

"hit once and hold" tactics as John Ruiz.

I've noticed he's doing that too.