BoxRec

George Chuvalo was one of the best chin in boxing history who fought the best heavyweights of his times. He fought Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Ernie Terrell, Jimmy Ellis, Cleveland Williams, Floyd Patterson, Zora Folley, Buster Mathis, Oscar Bonavena, Jerry Quarry, and others. All failed to knockout Chuvalo in their time, but there's one man whom Chuvalo have never met someone who is the hardest of all heavyweight punchers than all fighters who fought Chuvalo in reality. That man is: EARNIE SHAVERS! Foreman, Frazier, and Williams are hard, but not as hard as Shavers. Shavers was the first man to knockout Jimmy Young. I think if Chuvalo ever fight Shavers in the 1970s, Shavers would be the only man to knock Chuvalo down flat like Chuvalo's jaw turned from being a rock turned into a glass. I say Shavers wins by a knockout in round 5.

Well if anybody could I guess Shavers could and Chuvalo wasn't very elusive. The problem with Earnie was (with a couple of exceptions,Tiger Williams for example) if he didn't get you early, he didn't get you at all.

I can't help but think Chuvalo stops him late but it's a great matchup, too bad they just missed each other.

I don't think so maybe Shavers would land a big right hand early in the first that would hurt Chuvalo throughout the fight and stops Chuvalo in the fifth.

Age does matter I forgot to mention and the age advantage goes to Shavers.

I meant Shavers knocks out Chuvalo in the middle rounds, Shavers won the late round knockout against Roy "Tiger" Williams in the 10th.

Chuvalo-Shavers I think is a fight that easily nods to George. If Ron Stander, a poor man's Chuvalo, could take the early Shavers assault and knock him out, then Chuvalo could also. Shavers vs any guy with good stamina and an iron jaw has major problems.

I think Tyson in his prime would have turned the trick.

As I understand it he was pulled out by is corner vs Foreman. Is it not likely if they had not done this he would have been Ko'ed?

I think Tyson in his prime gets tied up and wrestled much of the first few rounds and then gets mugged in the later rounds in a very close and competitive fight. Chuvalo is a bad matchup for Tyson, who lacked the reach and outside game of Foreman and the sheer non-stop volume punching of Frazier. But he definitely could crack, so anything’s possible, but I just can’t see it.

It is possible that if Foreman had been allowed to pummel him for another couple minutes, he could have dropped Chuvalo, but he certainly took some great shots from a huge puncher in that fight. We’ll never know the answer to that one.

Chuvalo fought every top HW during a period of very skilled HWs, and if Frazier and Foreman couldn’t drop him, then I’d probably say someone like Liston, Louis or Lewis, who were more patient than Foreman and who may have been able to set him up better are possibilities. Of course, Lewis could have also been tagged and stopped, but that’s beside the point.

However, my gut reaction is that if the guys he fought couldn’t do it, then there probably wasn’t anyone who could drop Chuvalo.

shavers??? shavers was simply a very hard hitter. he was not a great finisher and didnt have the all around punching skills of a joe louis


- shavers knocked out a horribly green young


the man who could knock out george chuvalo? well if theres one man, then it would defintley be JOE LOUIS

tyson would have stopped chuvalo in 3 rounds. chuvalo couldnt handle a puncher in the tyson class. look what frazier and foreman did to chuvalo.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:tyson would have stopped chuvalo in 3 rounds. chuvalo couldnt handle a puncher in the tyson class. look what frazier and foreman did to chuvalo.

Possibly, but Tyson fought an entirely different style than either Frazier or Foreman. He didn’t posses the jab and outside power of Foreman, and he wasn’t the high volume non-stop punching machine like Frazier. Tyson was a monster puncher. He Probably hit harder than Frazier and on par with Foreman. But he wasn’t Frazier or Foreman. I think most world class HWs with a great chin and good physical strength and conditioning would have given Tyson problems. Just my opinion.

Decagon wrote:Louis. Tyson had a lot of power, but he faded after the fourth round.

Yeah, he would have been the best bet. Or Liston. Someone with a big punch and a more deliberate style. Of course, Louis could have sliced and diced him before dropping him, leading the ref to stop the fight and Joe not getting the KD.

..i don't distinguish between tko and ko....i've gone into this before and may do an extensive explanation. so, by that standard, he's already been kayoed. i think joe louis would give him the worst beating he'd ever get...but i'm not as certain he'd put him down for the ten count, which is what i think this thread means. some tough guys.....godoy comes to mind..stayed in with the bomber and got a real whippin' but the ref saved them from getting killed or permanently damaged, and i think the same would hold true with chuvalo. in short, as for a real "ten and out" cry from the referee it's just possible that no one could.

A young Tyson would have as a good a chance as anyone. He not only hit very hard, he was fast and could fight twelve rounds. Now the 35+ year old Tyson is essentially a four-round fighter, but the pre-1989 Tyson had the speed, power and endurance to really put it on someone like Chuvalo.

We all saw how fast and ugly he put Holmes down...and sorry, but the "old" debate about that knockout doesn't hold much water...Holmes was still a tough and very, very crafty fighter even in his 50s, but while he was still young Tyson just eat him up.

Tyson didn't have the power of a Foreman, or Shavers, but that alone would not really do the job. Now speed, which Tyson had arguably some of the fastest hands ever in the heavyweight division, but speed combo'd with vicious punching power...I think that would have the best chance to put someone like Chuvalo down for the count in about the sixth round.

I think alot of you are badly judging Chuvalo...you all say Louis or Shavers or Tyson would knock him out so easily...Chuvalo's head was probably the hardest thing in the 1970's and many a fighter made the mistake that, because Chuvalo wasn't that great at defense, that they could tear his head off.

If Foreman couldn't stop him, nor did Frazier with all the head shots, you have to figure, probably the only way to have worn Chuvalo down enough to have knocked him out would have been a full blown attack to the body and in the later rounds go for his head after he'd be slowed down to a stand still.

Holmes wasn't young, but he was not old either!!!

barry wrote:Holmes wasn't young, but he was not old either!!!

He wasn’t that old?!!? He was 38 years old!!! And while Holmes WAS clearly past his prime when he fought Tyson, the biggest problem he had entering the fight was that he was rusty from an extended (19 month) layoff.

Why so many seemingly intelligent people on this forum simply gloss over these facts in order to prop up Tyson is beyond me. Tyson was a great fighter, but don’t build him up on the KO of an over the hill, rusty ATG. Do you really think that a Tyson fight with a well prepared, active, 31 yo Holmes would have looked anything like the fiasco held in 1988?

And even worse, many of these same posters pimping the greatness of Tyson will defend Sonny Liston for being over the hill against Ali. And he was all of 31!!!

it gets embarassing having to agree with Jaclem as often as I do, but I imagine he has simply been reading my old contributions and achieving a wisdom that few can compete with. And Chuvalo is about as an "immovable object" as boxing has ever produced.


HOWEVER.....wasnt Chuvalo really sort of heading for the canvas with George Foreman and he would have ended up hitting the deck if his corner hadn't stepped in? Does anyone have that fight to be viewed? My memory is not the razor sharp Polaroid of yesteryear, and barry I don't usually take issue with you but wouldnt that mean that all you really needed was the brute power of a Foreman to get this done?

However if George was fully upright and in no danger of tipping but his corner was simply concerned about the flush shots he was taking then I stand corrected. Were his feet firmly under him at the time? I just can't accurately recall.

As I stated earlier, I agree that if George had continued to beat on him, he most likely would have eventually dropped. I also have to admit that my memory on the fight isn’t crystal clear, but I don’t recall that Chuvalo was on the verge of going down, although I’m sure he was hurting. I certainly don’t recall him looking like Wlad against Brewster.

>>>Do you really think that a Tyson fight with a well prepared, active, 31 yo Holmes would have looked anything like the fiasco held in 1988?<<<

Absolutely, but unlike Shavers and Snipes it wouldn't have taken Tyson 7 rounds to put Holmes down and out and also Snipes and Shavers could not do anything with Holmes after they put him down. Most of that had to do with Holmes, but then again Shavers, nor Snipes were not Tyson, who after putting Holmes down once would have went in for the kill, just like he did when they fought, but unlike the others Tyson would be successful. Tyson had the style, power and speed to always give Holmes nightmares in the ring. Holmes could punch pretty well, but he did not have the kind of power to keep a prime Tyson off of him as Tyson had a very solid chin and could handle what Holmes had to offer. And for the record, Holmes was very, very well prepared for his bout with Tyson. No, I see a bout against the Holmes of 1981 going pretty much the same way that they're actual bout did!

Holmes was 38, but he did not show the wear and tear that some fighters show when they age. No, Holmes was still pretty sharp at 38 and as we seen a few years later, Holmes was still able enough to put it all over a top ten heavyweight in Ray Mercer.

No one has ever done to Holmes what Tyson did, which it certainly was not Holmes in his prime, but it was a Holmes who was very capable and crafty and not the worn-out, shot old man that some, seemingly intelligent, people like to make him out to be in order to lessen Tyson's actual accomplishments in the ring!

barry wrote:>>>Do you really think that a Tyson fight with a well prepared, active, 31 yo Holmes would have looked anything like the fiasco held in 1988?<<<

Absolutely, but unlike Shavers and Snipes it wouldn't have taken Tyson 7 rounds to put Holmes down and out and also Snipes and Shavers could not do anything with Holmes after they put him down. Most of that had to do with Holmes, but then again Shavers, nor Snipes were not Tyson, who after putting Holmes down once would have went in for the kill, just like he did when they fought, but unlike the others Tyson would be successful. Tyson had the style, power and speed to always give Holmes nightmares in the ring. Holmes could punch pretty well, but he did not have the kind of power to keep a prime Tyson off of him as Tyson had a very solid chin and could handle what Holmes had to offer. And for the record, Holmes was very, very well prepared for his bout with Tyson. No, I see a bout against the Holmes of 1981 going pretty much the same way that they're actual bout did!

Holmes was 38, but he did not show the wear and tear that some fighters show when they age. No, Holmes was still pretty sharp at 38 and as we seen a few years later, Holmes was still able enough to put it all over a top ten heavyweight in Ray Mercer.

No one has ever done to Holmes what Tyson did, which it certainly was not Holmes in his prime, but it was a Holmes who was very capable and crafty and not the worn-out, shot old man that some, seemingly intelligent, people like to make him out to be in order to lessen Tyson's actual accomplishments in the ring!

Wow, where to begin?

Holmes was very very well prepared for Tyson. Really? He hadn’t fought in 19 months. You must not think that fighters have to actually fight to stay sharp. And the fact he was 38 makes it much more difficult to shake off the rust. Doesn’t it?

The Holmes that fought Ray Mercer had been VERY active leading up to that fight, not having been retired and sitting around for 19 months. Plus the slow footed, one dimensional Mercer is made to order for anyone with a jab.

Holmes was not the worn out, shot old man… Well, intelligent people are able to look at a 19 month layoff for a 38 year old Holmes and understand that he could not possibly have been very sharp for the fight. At least intelligent people that know something about boxing or just about any other physically demanding sport.

I left the best for last.

You mention the Shavers and Snipes KD and say that if they could do that then certainly Tyson could, and he could finish job. Well then, if Buster Douglas could trash a 23 yo Tyson, then certainly a prime Holmes could as well? But whenever anyone brings up the beating that Tyson took from Douglas, all we hear is that he wasn’t the same fighter, and that he was past his prime. At 23 without a long layoff, he was shot. And here I am explaining that Tyson’s win over a 38 year old inactive Holmes doesn’t really mean much. Doesn’t this argument seem pretty silly?

And whether or not Holmes had the power to keep Tyson off of him is probably irrelevant. Do boxers always need power to keep one fighter “off of them”? Most likely Holmes would have done the same thing to Tyson that Douglas did. Jab followed by a straight right and then clinch. Douglas wasn’t a big hitter either, but it sure did work well. Oh, but I forgot. Tyson was 23 and well past his prime. Of course, he looked much sharper in the first few rounds against Douglas than he did against Bruno a efw fights before.

Tyson KOing an inactive, 38 year old Holmes means nothing. Or maybe age and activity don’t mean anything in boxing? Maybe Leon Spinks could have beaten up a prime Ali the same way he did the older Ali.

....barry...my statements about ko vs. tko are not a part of a debate...they are an explanation.

buzzy...nice of you to agree, no matter how reluctantly. as for the similarity in our posts, it's because your writing is much like mine before i make corrections.

I have the Foreman-Chuvalo bout on a video tape, my opinion is if Foreman was given a bit more time Chuvalo would have hit the deck, he was visibly unable to protect himself and was busted wide open, but you have to figure he was just tough enough to go a lot more longer than Joe Frazier and Ken Norton did when they faced Foreman.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:I have the Foreman-Chuvalo bout on a video tape, my opinion is if Foreman was given a bit more time Chuvalo would have hit the deck, he was visibly unable to protect himself and was busted wide open, but you have to figure he was just tough enough to go a lot more longer than Joe Frazier and Ken Norton did when they faced Foreman.

Agreed on all points.