BoxRec

With a war breaking out between Lebanon and Israel, ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, trouble in Sudan and Somalia, and an impending nuclear showdown with North Korea, I thought it would be the perfect time to add to the ever growing disharmony between man, by posing the question "Who are the most overrated fighters of all time ?". Before doing so however, I'd like to say that being overrated isn't such a bad thing (no one will believe that though) because it means a guy had to have had some accomplishment.

My first 3 names of many.

Jess Willard, Ingemar Johansson, and sentimental favorite James J Braddock. Sorry guys, but these three do not belong in the Hall of Fame.

I always thought Earnie Shavers was a bit overated. Maybe thats because of his high knockout percentage.
Oscar Bonavena seemed to get alot of milage out of giving Joe Frazier a good fight. Thats a situation where a guy gets a high rating for hanging tough with an all time great.

I wonder if this thread will bring out the Ray Leonard detractors. I totally disagree in advance for any nominations of Ray.

Any fighter promoted by ABC TV.

Overrated? Marciano tends to be well overrated by many people as well as Tyson and pre-exile Ali.

Members of the "Black Murderers Row", like Marshall,Williams, Cocoa Kid, etc. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying they werent great. But alot of people go on about them like the other fighters during their time, mostly white, who unjustifiably garnered more attention wouldnt have stood a chance in hell against them.

Cleveland Williams

Carlos Zarate if you examine his record looks pretty overated. Yes Zarate was a top quality fighter but the stats don't lie!!
* Before beating Rodolfo Martinez for WBC Bantam title never fought a top 10 contender in 34 fights over 6 years.
* Take out his big win over Alfonso Zamora and his failed challenge on Wilfredo Gomez and you have 10 title defences with only 3 guys, Paul Ferreri, Albert Davila and Lupe Pintor who were ranked in the top 10.
* Older past his peak lost to Jeff Fenech and Daniel Zaragoza in second career, but again, you look there's no one else in top 10.
* Should be known as "The journeyman killer" , looks close to 50 odd big journeyman/opponent Ko's.

Great thread! The Klits are definitely up there.

Axe wrote:Great thread! The Klits are definitely up there.

Yes they are. They are ranked very high on that list. Top 10 material.

All time winner in the "Overated Former Boxing Champion" catagory
goes to


Aaron Pryor.....


for perfect timing, keeping the risk factor low and the perception factor high and getting out before time could give a better picture. Even fooling many of the so called "experts" into thinking he perhaps deserves consideration alongside names like Armstrong, Duran and Chavez. He also takes home a win in the catagory of creative use of little blue bottles.

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Regarding the fighters everyone has listed....

Max Baer. Agree
James J Jeffries. Totally disagree
James J Corbett. Hate to say it, but yes, too few fights.
John L Sullivan. Agree
The Klitschko's. Who overrates them ? These guys get dissed on Box Rec on a daily basis.
Earnie Shavers. Agree. Big puncher but very beatable.
Oscar Bonavena. Disagree
Rocky Marciano. Agree, he wasen't Superman, Ali was.
Mike Tyson. Not overrated anymore.
Pre Exile Ali. NO WAY
Black Murderers Row. Some very good fighters, BUT I disagree with the proposition that if fighter A never fights fighter B, that it must automatically be assumed that fighter B would have knocked him out if they had fought.
Cleveland Williams. Honestly don't know who overrates him.
Carlos Zarate. Totally disagree, alot of the guys he KO'd have incomplete records.
Aaron Pryor. Disagree. Was washed up at 27, but before then he fought like a whirling dervish.

..oh..thank you buzzy...thank you!!!! saved me from temptation.

A lot of fighters are ovrrated because they are fan favourites. We let our appreciation of them cloud our judgement and then find excuses to paper over the short comings of a particular fighter.

Ali is overrated IMO. The only person anyone ever picks over him is Louis. All fighters have their problems with certain styles but nobody ever seems to argue for a style or a fighter who might have had his number. Frazier beat Ali but most people just talk about pre-exile Ali being unbeatable. He was certainly a force of nature but he could be beaten. I actually think posty exile Ali would be pre-exile...

The same goes for Tyson his sojourn in the pen allows fans to constantly whine on about how pre-prison Tyson was unbeatable. Tyson looked so devestating that there is a blind spot for his obvious weaknesses. Tyson, like Ali, has this built in excuse for any failings.

Now to really throw down the gauntlet, I'll add Jake LaMotta. YES, I know he had a great chin, but he also had too many prime losses, and his handing Sugar Ray Robinson his first ever pro defeat with a 16 lb advantage in a close fight is overrated as well. As I said at the beginning, to be overrated means you have to have accomplished something, it's just that when I hear how LaMotta would outwork Hagler, Hopkins, Jones etc, I just have to say, he had enough problems with the Cecil Hudson's and Norman Hayes' of this world to ever have a chance with fighters like that.

lloyd marshall is one of my favorite fighters of all time, vastly underated




by far unquestionably the most overated fighter of all time.........vitali quitschko


my other top choices who are overated

marcel cerdan- very overated
gene tunney- overated as a heavyweight




* how the hell is cleveland williams overated???

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
by far unquestionably the most overated fighter of all time.........vitali quitschko

But I don't know anyone who rates him that highly. He was an average champ in terms of the history of the division. I've never ehard anyone say anything different.

kick asner wrote:I always thought Earnie Shavers was a bit overated. Maybe thats because of his high knockout percentage.
Oscar Bonavena seemed to get alot of milage out of giving Joe Frazier a good fight. Thats a situation where a guy gets a high rating for hanging tough with an all time great.

I wonder if this thread will bring out the Ray Leonard detractors. I totally disagree in advance for any nominations of Ray.

I doubt that many serious fight fans could seriously argue that SRL was overrated.

He was one of the few boxers in history, who in his peak, had everything a boxer needs.

Massive heart, blistering handspeed, great boxer, good power, flashy feet & a titanium chin.

Jeff Fenech - sure he has 3 or 4 good names on his resume but Zarate was an old man, Martinez was coming off a tough fight against Azumah Nelson, and even though I scored the first (malaria suffering?) Nelson fight closely to Fenech, "The Professor" took him to school in their return bout. Fenech could never adjust his style when he needed to - it was all head down bash & barge.

BOB FOSTER- His opposition was so weak and u see people claiming he was a top 3 all time ligt-heavyweigt

Foster is overated

Well to view a fighter to be overrated, or underrated those making the claim need to be knowledgeable on the topic, which unfortunately there are several on this forum that have very little knowledge about complete era's, much less the fighters of those era's. You get people who have done nothing but look at a fighters record...nothing more, no actual reading, or anything but a glance over a record and they suddenly feel like a historian in they're mind, but then make such outrageous and clueless statements that it is actually sad, both for those who do the pretending and also sad for the actual historians that try to straighten the nonsense out that those pretending often leave!

Ezzard wrote:A lot of fighters are ovrrated because they are fan favourites. We let our appreciation of them cloud our judgement and then find excuses to paper over the short comings of a particular fighter.

Ali is overrated IMO. The only person anyone ever picks over him is Louis. All fighters have their problems with certain styles but nobody ever seems to argue for a style or a fighter who might have had his number. Frazier beat Ali but most people just talk about pre-exile Ali being unbeatable. He was certainly a force of nature but he could be beaten. I actually think posty exile Ali would be pre-exile...

The same goes for Tyson his sojourn in the pen allows fans to constantly whine on about how pre-prison Tyson was unbeatable. Tyson looked so devestating that there is a blind spot for his obvious weaknesses. Tyson, like Ali, has this built in excuse for any failings.

Have to strongly disagree about ali. From 1964-1967, Ali was 10-0 in title fights. Two were over Liston and Patterson. Most of the rest were pretty good fighters.None of his fights were even close. The ratio of the puches that he landed and that his opponents landed was phenomenal. No other heavyweight champion ever dominated this easily. Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano etc all had title defenses where they struggled.

The Ali from say 1970-1975 had lost some of his speed. He was still a great fighter; but there have been a handful of great fighters who have near this level.

The Tyson case is a little different. None of his victims were great fighters, he struggled more, and most of all Tyson got kncoked out by Buster Douglas.

Ambling Alp wrote:

Ezzard wrote:A lot of fighters are ovrrated because they are fan favourites. We let our appreciation of them cloud our judgement and then find excuses to paper over the short comings of a particular fighter.

Ali is overrated IMO. The only person anyone ever picks over him is Louis. All fighters have their problems with certain styles but nobody ever seems to argue for a style or a fighter who might have had his number. Frazier beat Ali but most people just talk about pre-exile Ali being unbeatable. He was certainly a force of nature but he could be beaten. I actually think posty exile Ali would be pre-exile...

The same goes for Tyson his sojourn in the pen allows fans to constantly whine on about how pre-prison Tyson was unbeatable. Tyson looked so devestating that there is a blind spot for his obvious weaknesses. Tyson, like Ali, has this built in excuse for any failings.

Have to strongly disagree about ali. From 1964-1967, Ali was 10-0 in title fights. Two were over Liston and Patterson. Most of the rest were pretty good fighters.None of his fights were even close. The ratio of the puches that he landed and that his opponents landed was phenomenal. No other heavyweight champion ever dominated this easily. Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano etc all had title defenses where they struggled.

The Ali from say 1970-1975 had lost some of his speed. He was still a great fighter; but there have been a handful of great fighters who have near this level.

The Tyson case is a little different. None of his victims were great fighters, he struggled more, and most of all Tyson got kncoked out by Buster Douglas.

Alp

I'm not trying to downgrade Ali at all. He is my pick for the greatest ever HW. I'm just making the point that everyone is beatable. He got the good grace of a few decisions at the end of his career but that I wouldn't hold that against him.

Ali had weaknesses like any fighter but nobody ever mentions them. Also of the 3 A grade fighters he fought I believe that 2 of them were great match ups stylistically for him (Liston & Foreman, who alos brought massively overrated reputations with them, which were then transferred onto Ali) and the other guy beat him. There are extenutaing circumstances but the fact that this defeat is so quickly swept under the carpet (something never challeneged either) makes me still believe he is overrated.

A composite HW created by the average pundit, let alone punter, would read power = Tyson; every other category = Ali...

I'm not trying to say he wasn't a great fighter. I'm not even trying to say he wasn't the greatest HW ever, but you only have to look at the media machine behind him to see that there's more to the legend than the man himself.

Decagon wrote:

Ezzard wrote:But I don't know anyone who rates him that highly. He was an average champ in terms of the history of the division. I've never ehard anyone say anything different.

I think you're overrating him. I wouldn't even call him a "champion," but rather a "titlist," like John Ruiz or Chris Byrd, two fighters I consistently ranked over Bitchko. And to say that the average World Heavyweight Champion was like Bitchko? That's really stretching it.

You're right, I shouldn't have called him a champion...

Wilfredo Gomez. Some of the stiffs on his record are embarrasing. Sure he fought some good fighters later, but the big KO streak that made him famous was against nobodies.


Cube

Ingemar Johansson, 1-2 vs Patterson and a first round KO of Machen.................I guess thats it.