BoxRec

heres my preliminary unfinished list


1. Lloyd marshall
2. Jack Blackburn
3. Harold Johnson
4. Lee Q Murray
5. Fritzie Zivic
6. Clarence Henry
7. Billy Conn
8. Joe Walcott "barbodos"
9. John Henry Lewis
10. Sonny Liston


HM: Mauro Mina, Jerry Quarry, Dave Holly, Cocoa Kid




i will soon be making a top 25 list

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

i will soon be making a top 25 list

Why do I have the weird feeling that Gene Tunney won't be on that one either....

pundit wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

i will soon be making a top 25 list

Why do I have the weird feeling that Gene Tunney won't be on that one either....

I swore it said underrated not overrated.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:heres my preliminary unfinished list
…10. Sonny Liston

Sonny Liston? Most posters on here have him as an all-time top 10 HW, some as high as top 3!

Not sure how he’s under-rated...

The Great John L wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:heres my preliminary unfinished list
…10. Sonny Liston

Sonny Liston? Most posters on here have him as an all-time top 10 HW, some as high as top 3!

Not sure how he’s under-rated...

most place him in bottom half of top ten or outside of there top 10 which i feel is underating him. hes top 5 material IMO.


in fantasy matchups people also unfairly critisize his heart, stamina and chin

The biggest problem here is, how do you accurately define underrated ? The criteria I prefer is, who isn't in the Hall of Fame. Just food for thought.

1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9 and 10

are no longer underated...

they are all recognized greats whose career's have been revived and have/are been given their dues!

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:most place him in bottom half of top ten or outside of there top 10 which i feel is underating him. hes top 5 material IMO.


in fantasy matchups people also unfairly critisize his heart, stamina and chin

Hard to imagine how any HW who is ranked by MOST in thier all time top and whose name isn't Ali or Louis can be under rated. Kind deminishes the meaning of under rated, don't ya think?

How about Jeffires? Most don't even rank him top 10 anymore yet he beat Corbett, Fitz and Tom Sharkey. A short resume, but sounds a bit better than Liston's. At least to me.

I somewhat disagree as placing Liston iside the top ten....Marciano fits in better than Liston does in the sense of being under-rated, but virtually everyone else on the list I think is rightfully placed there.

I think your HM fighters are all underrated and some of yout top 10 are now getting their due.

Conn is a top 10 LHW for me and that's where most people rate him.

How about Kid Norfolk?

Three fighters I feel don't get their dues,

Freddie Miller
Johnny Dundee
Jimmy McLarnin

Decagon wrote:A year ago, when I started ranking Lloyd Marshall #8 at middleweight, you all said I was stupid.

funny, i rate marshall # 8 middleweight of all time too!

One of the more positive things I have picked up around here was info on Marshall, Holman Williams and a few others.
Ive appreciated it.

I have always thought that Bob Montgomery deserves a bit more recognition.

Ill have to find out more about Loche. Im familiar with some of his accomplishments but never seen him fight.
Loi I have heard quite a bit about from Frank Tommaso who trained me a bit. He was Eddie Perkins trainer and manager. Never seen Loi fight either though. What a record he had.

expug wrote:I have always thought that Bob Montgomery deserves a bit more recognition.

excellent choice. montgomery is gonna be in my final list. he almost made this one

Seamus wrote:The biggest problem here is, how do you accurately define underrated ? The criteria I prefer is, who isn't in the Hall of Fame. Just food for thought.

You have a point there. Who are they underrated by? Is it just by people on the BoxRec Forum or just in general or who.

For example, someone like Lloyd Marshall is underrated in general, but most people on this forum seem to think highly of him.

I have always thought that Bob Montgomery deserves a bit more recognition.

I dont know about that. I think Montgomery is usually placed right were he belongs, highly regarded but not amoung the divisions all time elite.

he had some very good wins, but there were ALOT of losses. And not only against fellow hall of famers.
A fighter like Lamotta is often critizied for his losses to middle of the road fighters,but Mongomery would surely get a pass by alot of those same critics.

In fact Lamotta is underrated these days if you ask me, especially on these boards. from 1943 through 1946 Lamotta fought 41 times and only lost 5 times, 3 times to Robinson(one of those three may have been a gift) once too Marshell(very close fight, some thought Lamotta won) and once to the tricky and dirty Zivic.
in that time period he defeated Zivic 3 times, Robinson once, and a host of top ten contenders.
In later years his battle with the scales made his preformances more erratic. Even in his win against Cerdan, (a legitamate win that often gets downplayed by his critics)I believe Lamotta was already on the downslide
of his career.

great post theone i agree



lloyd marshall was special, hes a top 10 middleweight of all time in my book. he might be the greatest super middle of all time as well.

the only film of him is when he was past his prime. but if u watch him in some films like vs charles in 1946, he has incredible all around athletic abilitiy, archie moore like movement and all around punching skills.

My top ten of underrated fighters would go something like this...

1. Manuel Ortiz
2. Gene Tunney
3. Jim Jeffries
4. Larry Holmes
5. Joe Brown
6. Harold Johnson
7. Al Brown
8. Miguel Canto
9. Euesbio Pedrosa
10. Bob Fitzsimmons

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:great post theone i agree



lloyd marshall was special, hes a top 10 middleweight of all time in my book. he might be the greatest super middle of all time as well.

the only film of him is when he was past his prime. but if u watch him in some films like vs charles in 1946, he has incredible all around athletic abilitiy, archie moore like movement and all around punching skills.

I rate Marshall highly but to rate him in the all time middleweight top ten is misguided I think, ...in a division which has the history of so many great champions and contenders.... Marshall is top 15 or 20... no way is he top 10...

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:heres my preliminary unfinished list


1. Lloyd marshall
2. Jack Blackburn
3. Harold Johnson
4. Lee Q Murray
5. Fritzie Zivic
6. Clarence Henry
7. Billy Conn
8. Joe Walcott "barbodos"
9. John Henry Lewis
10. Sonny Liston


HM: Mauro Mina, Jerry Quarry, Dave Holly, Cocoa Kid




i will soon be making a top 25 list

I agree with these picks except maybe Conn who does get recognition I think. He was a great IMO.

Some others off the top of my head no particular order.
Gorilla Jones
Freddie Cochrane
Billy Graham
Young Corbett II
Johnny Wilson
Bob Montgomery
Vincente Saldivar
Ismael Laguna
Ken Overlin
Rinty Monaghan
Joe Lynch
Hogan Kid Bassey
George Dixon

silkov wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:great post theone i agree



lloyd marshall was special, hes a top 10 middleweight of all time in my book. he might be the greatest super middle of all time as well.

the only film of him is when he was past his prime. but if u watch him in some films like vs charles in 1946, he has incredible all around athletic abilitiy, archie moore like movement and all around punching skills.

I rate Marshall highly but to rate him in the all time middleweight top ten is misguided I think, ...in a division which has the history of so many great champions and contenders.... Marshall is top 15 or 20... no way is he top 10...

why not??

isnt tony zale in ur top 10? the same zale who never fought black fighters despite there being an incredible list of great colored 160lbers out there. the same zale whos best wins are over rocky graziano and georgie abrams?

marshall beat much better competition than tony zale.....


lloyd marshall beat middleweights

ezzard charles
charley burley
jake lamotta
holman williams
jack chase
lou broullaird
teddy yarosz
ken overlin
eddie babe risko
shorty hogue
bandit romero


ENOUGH SAID!!

silkov wrote:My top ten of underrated fighters would go something like this...

1. Manuel Ortiz
2. Gene Tunney
3. Jim Jeffries
4. Larry Holmes
5. Joe Brown
6. Harold Johnson
7. Al Brown
8. Miguel Canto
9. Euesbio Pedrosa
10. Bob Fitzsimmons

Well done.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

silkov wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:great post theone i agree



lloyd marshall was special, hes a top 10 middleweight of all time in my book. he might be the greatest super middle of all time as well.

the only film of him is when he was past his prime. but if u watch him in some films like vs charles in 1946, he has incredible all around athletic abilitiy, archie moore like movement and all around punching skills.

I rate Marshall highly but to rate him in the all time middleweight top ten is misguided I think, ...in a division which has the history of so many great champions and contenders.... Marshall is top 15 or 20... no way is he top 10...

why not??

isnt tony zale in ur top 10? the same zale who never fought black fighters despite there being an incredible list of great colored 160lbers out there. the same zale whos best wins are over rocky graziano and georgie abrams?

marshall beat much better competition than tony zale.....


lloyd marshall beat middleweights

ezzard charles
charley burley
jake lamotta
holman williams
jack chase
lou broullaird
teddy yarosz
ken overlin
eddie babe risko
shorty hogue
bandit romero


ENOUGH SAID!!

he was also beaten by the same romero
yarosz
hogue
chase
williams
add booker and ceferino garcia and i don't think you have a top 10 middle.what makes marshall any better than the likes of chase and booker?