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It would be easy to asume he lost his power with time but I think his downfall was his loss of heart.

Looking a brutal shadow of himself against Bruno in '96 yet by the end of year he throws everything he has at Holfyfield (not taking anyting away from Holyfield) and yet further disapointment in the re-match and also against Lewis, Williams and finally McBride.

What let him down his power or his heart?

I believe that the Young Tyson had 2 really fantastic things going for him:

1. His punch power.

2. His punch ferocity, (the impact and speed he punched with)...

When he returned against Frank Bruno, he had lost a good bit of punch ferocity although his power offered too much to Bruno and then champion crumbled...

Against Holyfield, his punch power (although diminished) wasn't enough to take him through the fight and SO Tyson lost heart. (Becuase the 2 things which he was banking on throughout his career had failed him) and he had nothing else to offer, apart from 2 things that just weren't working against Holyfield...


Looking back, I feel sorry for Tyson. IMO if Tyson and Holyfield fought prime-to-prime, Tyson would take him BUT in reality Tyson had lost too much of his VA VA VOOM when he fought Holyfield...

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:It would be easy to asume he lost his power with time but I think his downfall was his loss of heart.

Looking a brutal shadow of himself against Bruno in '96 yet by the end of year he throws everything he has at Holfyfield (not taking anyting away from Holyfield) and yet further disapointment in the re-match and also against Lewis, Williams and finally McBride.

What let him down his power or his heart?

His heart. I don't think Tyson was THAT far gone by his first comeback. Especially for the Holyfield rematch. He looked in great physical condition and in the third round was finally putting his combinations together again. He knew at this point in the fight that Holyfield was a better fighter and was pissed about the cut. He figured it would be better to be DQ'd than to get stopped again.

I think if this was Tyson of 1986-1991, he takes his lumps like a man instead of biting both of Holyfield's ears. He proved his punching power was still there until the very end, with great KOs over Frans Botha and Cliff Etienne. He just lost his heart somewhere between beating Ruddock the second time and beating the hell out of Peter McNeeley. My guess? It was the prison rapes.

Decagon wrote:Lack of power or heart wasn't the problem; it was lack of brains.

Brains, surely they got him in the ring as he needed to fight for money. But in the ring against Williams and McBride he was missing key elements that should have easily seen him to victory, was it power or heart that he was missing, or maybe an argument for both!

Mike didnt know how to handle it when other fighters stood up to him... he was basically a front runner and the mayjor losses of his career broke him as a fighter... after the Holifield fight he was just never interested in fighting again...

He lost his hunger for the game, along with heart. Tyson to this day could still probably pack a punch.


~A.W.F~

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:It would be easy to asume he lost his power with time but I think his downfall was his loss of heart.

Looking a brutal shadow of himself against Bruno in '96 yet by the end of year he throws everything he has at Holfyfield (not taking anyting away from Holyfield) and yet further disapointment in the re-match and also against Lewis, Williams and finally McBride.

What let him down his power or his heart?

Tyson lost his heart.

He still had his power late on in his career.

His KO of Frans Botha in 1999 was his most devastating one punck KO of his career

it was clear to close mike supporters that when mike returned from prison, he was far from what he once was.


mike wasnt the same after he fired rooney. watch the bruno fight......mike was very vunerable in that fight he got hit alot. he wasnt training with the same intensity anymore......he was abandoning the things rooney taught him. his 89-91 trainer schowell was right in saying to mike in 1990 "the stuff ur doing right now, ur headed for an ass whuppin". mike was still in his physical prime in 89-91 but mentally he was no longer there.


anything post prison forget it. tyson was nowhere near his prime by 1996(still dangerous though, great win for evander)

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:It would be easy to asume he lost his power with time but I think his downfall was his loss of heart.

Looking a brutal shadow of himself against Bruno in '96 yet by the end of year he throws everything he has at Holfyfield (not taking anyting away from Holyfield) and yet further disapointment in the re-match and also against Lewis, Williams and finally McBride.

What let him down his power or his heart?

Neither nor.

He lost his timing, his stamina, his body movement, his footspeed, his hand-eye corrdination. All much more important qualities than "power". We talk about boxing, not about some strongman show.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:it was clear to close mike supporters that when mike returned from prison, he was far from what he once was.


mike wasnt the same after he fired rooney. watch the bruno fight......mike was very vunerable in that fight he got hit alot. he wasnt training with the same intensity anymore......he was abandoning the things rooney taught him. his 89-91 trainer schowell was right in saying to mike in 1990 "the stuff ur doing right now, ur headed for an ass whuppin". mike was still in his physical prime in 89-91 but mentally he was no longer there.


anything post prison forget it. tyson was nowhere near his prime by 1996(still dangerous though, great win for evander)

I don't agree that he was "far gone" as some Tyson supporters like to say. I was having problems sleeping recently so I started out watching Tyson's career in order from amateur to pro, sans fight with Larry Sims.

One thing that surprised me was after listening to a bunch of Tyson fans on this board saying how Tyson scored KOs, not TKOs and that his opponents were unconcious usually. How untrue that is. Most of his wins were impressive looking, but not many of them were scary stoppages. The Frazier KO, impressive. A lot of the others were only impressive visually, since his opponents were people dug out of retirement or "ham and eggers" as you like to say.

Anyway, back to my point. Yes, he got away from the combination punching that made him a rising star and the head movement started to disappear before he went to prison. When Tyson came back, he hadn't lost much speed and was throwing combinations and using his head movement. Tyson needed more time to shake the rust off when he fought Holyfield the first time and paid for it. Unfortunately for Tyson, when he came in looking the best in his comeback - the second fight for Holyfield - Holyfield came into the fight in even better shape. Tyson looked sharper in this fight, he started faster and was using his head movement, thanks to Richie Giachetti. He looked great in the third, that is until he snapped and bit Holyfield twice.

Tyson was not far gone physically. His mental state, though, was a foregone conclusion. He was still close to his physical prime, probably a little closer to his than Ali was when he first fought Frazier, but he was a nutcase even more so than anyone could have ever imagined.

There were always too many distractions swirling around him.
Arrests , lawsuits , streetfights , accusations,bad marriages.
That stuff makes it hard to concentrate on being a fighter.
Id say this contributed to him first losing focus, than his heart wasnt in it anymore.
The side show nonsense got old for everyone including him.

Tyson quit jabbing........

When he fought Buster Douglas, he no longer had that great head movement that had made him a very underrated defensive fighter. After prison he just relied on his punch and intimidation. He looked awful against Buster Mathis Jr until he landed the big punch.

Seamus wrote:When he fought Buster Douglas, he no longer had that great head movement that had made him a very underrated defensive fighter. After prison he just relied on his punch and intimidation. He looked awful against Buster Mathis Jr until he landed the big punch.

... The lack of head movement is an immediate cause. The root cause is a lack of motivation & hunger. You have to work twice as hard as you get older, to maintain what you had when you were younger. Mike was no longer willing to pay the price.

Seamus wrote:When he fought Buster Douglas, he no longer had that great head movement that had made him a very underrated defensive fighter.

Yes that head movement characterized Mike during his 91-second prime.

It's funny that "Mike" suddenly became washed up after he lost to Holyfield. After the second Bruno fight (which was before he fought Holyfield) Tyson got a lot of praise. He stopped a fighter in 3 rounds(Bruno) who seemed to be better than he was earlier in his career when Tyson fought him the first time.

Tyson's perfomance in the first Holyfield fight was better than many of his performances in his "first career". He actually fought a pretty good fight; Holyfield was just better.

After Tyson's second loss to Holyfield, he did seem to lose his confidence. He stopped fighting the top contenders; which he needed to do to stay sharp. His skills began to decline faster than they would have if he was fighting quality opposition. By the time he fought Lewis his skills had deteriorated greatly.

He didn't lose his heart, he lost his hunger & discipline.

Admitting that from the very beginning I believed that Tyson was the poorest heavyweight champion of all time (in boxing ability), my thought is that his behaviour in the ring resembled very much the one that bullies all over the world display when faced by a better opponent: Cowardice!

I don't think Tyson lost his one punch power,the problem is,he got slower as a fighter,and the movement and combinations of punches that led him to be successful in the early days deserted him.

As for him losing his heart? Personally,I think he NEVER had heart.

Generally,when fighters stood up to him,and refused to be intimidated,he got beat up.

Crease wrote:I believe that the Young Tyson had 2 really fantastic things going for him:

1. His punch power.

2. His punch ferocity, (the impact and speed he punched with)...

Crease wrote:I believe that the Young Tyson had 2 really fantastic things going for him:

1. His punch power.

2. His punch ferocity, (the impact and speed he punched with)...

You forgot his punch force. That was pretty impressive too.

Ambling Alp wrote:It's funny that "Mike" suddenly became washed up after he lost to Holyfield. After the second Bruno fight (which was before he fought Holyfield) Tyson got a lot of praise. He stopped a fighter in 3 rounds(Bruno) who seemed to be better than he was earlier in his career when Tyson fought him the first time.

Tyson's perfomance in the first Holyfield fight was better than many of his performances in his "first career". He actually fought a pretty good fight; Holyfield was just better.

After Tyson's second loss to Holyfield, he did seem to lose his confidence. He stopped fighting the top contenders; which he needed to do to stay sharp. His skills began to decline faster than they would have if he was fighting quality opposition. By the time he fought Lewis his skills had deteriorated greatly.

Alp, thankyou so much for this post. It's nice for someone to actually remember what was going on at the time of the fight. The popular opinion (and mine too) was that Tyson would regain his top spot and KO the ring-worn pumped up Cruiserweight.

After Holyfield his spirit was crushed. Tyson had some good moments against Holyfield but was just beaten by the better man. How anyone can post rankings with Tyson above Holyfield is beyond me.

Actually I don't believe it was power or heart. The first big problem with Tyson (in the ring that is) was how at the time of the Douglas fight, he really lost that excellent head movement, that he ironically had in his previous 1 round blowout of Carl The Truth Williams. After that Tyson began relying on his power alone to win fights. There's just no comparison between the Tyson of the late 80's who had razor sharp reflects, and the Tyson of the 90's who was looking for one big punch, and at times looking awful against the likes of Mathis and Botha.

Tyson never lost his power; he became lazy & ill disciplined & did not have the heart nor stamina for a tough battle of wills.

By 1990, he was a one punch at a time merchant, rather than throwing the devstating combos that were his trademark, plus he stopped moving his head which resulted in him eating more punches.

Most of his KO's were as a result of combos, rather than single shot blow-outs, so when he stopped throwing combos, he was not the same.

It was at this time that his lack of heart & not so great stamina became more apparent too.

Tyson showed decent headmovement against Golota, but you guys are right, he let go on what made him good and just used his reputation and power to win fights.