BoxRec

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd let you know of a project I'm working on, as I'd welcome your input.

Since November 2002, I've been putting together a book on the fighting career of Kirkland Laing. First 2-3 years were heavy research, hence the timescale. I'm aiming to publish it by the end of 2007, which I hope is a realistic deadline although it may be a little tight.

The aim of the book is (1) to tell the story of a great fighter whose achievements may gradually be forgotten as time passes by and (2) if any profits arise (which is a very big "if" with such a specialist book), to donate them to a suitable cause, as I'm not doing this for personal gain. I am funding the book myself (OK, vanity publishing alert, but it makes more economic sense than getting about 0.3p per copy from a publishing house), and given that this will mean a chunky four-figure outlay to get the print run done etc., I'll need to sell a few hundred of the book just to break even.

I did write to Kirk when he was in hospital after his fall in early 2004 (having discovered the address of the intensive care unit, which I then mistranscribed as ITU rather than ICU when passing it on to Boxing News), and offered to write the book and give him the profits if he was prepared to participate. Given his condition at the time, I wasn't expecting an immediate response, but I never heard anything back. Only thing I have heard via Boxing News and others is that Kirk or his family may want money up-front to participate, which I of course would not do, so it looks like it'll be written slightly more at a distance. However, I wish him the very best and hope he'll accept a copy of the book once it's done, if I ever find an address for him!

Therefore I've decided to do it a slightly different way. As part of my research, I ended up getting in touch with the Midlands Ex-Boxers Association. They kindly suggested that I join them, which I have done (although feeling in rather exalted company given my personal record of precisely one amateur fight). My intention is for any profits to go to the Midlands EBA, as they regularly help ex-boxers who have fallen on hard times, amateur gyms and other boxing-related causes. (Indeed, anyone boxing-related in need in the Midlands can apply for a donation of up to £250, so let me know if you can think of anyone - all you need to do is get in contact with the committee, and I can give you details if someone needs to get in touch). However, if any of you can think of a better cause, or one which should also get some money (if any profits arise!), feel free to suggest it.

You're probably all thinking at this stage that this is (1) a rather long post already and (2) me getting ahead of myself working out who will get the profits when the book is not actually finished. Only reason for me making that clear is that I don't want anyone thinking I'm seeking personal gain out of Kirk's name. Given that the great man is always elusive, if any of you know of his whereabouts, please pass on the message to him that I'm doing the book - if he'd like to get a message to me about it, perhaps he could get someone to drop me an email on [email protected]

OK, now a little bit about the book itself. It traces Kirk's career from his schoolboy amateur fights even before he was a teenager, through his ABA triumph and Olympic let-down in his first year as a senior, and will contain as full an amateur record as I have managed to trace - currently around 80 fights. Of course, it will then look at his early pro years, the Jones and Duran fights, and all the ups and downs thereafter. In addition, it also focuses on some less-known aspects, such as the Hutchings KO, the controversial Janssen fight in Australia (including a splendid post-fight interview with Janssen) and the excellent but rarely-seen Mike Picciotti win in 86.

However, as I don't want it to be too much of a geeky book, I've specifically focused on Kirk's opponents, amateur and pro. I have already done interviews with people such as Reg Ford and Marvin McDowell in the States, Joey Singleton, Achille Mitchell, Salvo Nuciforo, Colin Ward, John Coyle, Harry Holland, Frank O'Sullivan, Colin Flinn, Clive Hogben and others, with plenty more to come (next up is Kirk's former amateur opponent Ib Botcher from Denmark). This is not intended to be name dropping, but simply to show that I'm doing this seriously rather than just talking about it. All of these people have great stories to tell, so I want to touch on their lives and careers too, rather than just mention them in passing. There is also plenty on the careers of his rivals such as Green, Jones and Honeyghan, so hopefully something for everyone!

So that's it, in a very large nutshell. Please get in touch with me at [email protected] if:

(1) You're a former opponent, sparring partner, friend or relative of Kirk and you'd like to be involved with this book;

(2) You know of someone who was a former opponent etc. etc. of Kirk and can let me know an address to write to. Believe me, nothing's too obscure, so even if it seems like a minor thing to you, just let me know. Everyone who contributes will of course be given a full credit in the "Acknowledgments" section;

(3) You have any photos or other memorabilia in relation to Kirk which might make a good picture in the book (I'm quite well-off for programmes and posters, but welcome all suggestions);

(4) You think publishing the book in the way I am suggesting is good/bad, will please/irritate Kirk (hopefully former, not latter), etc. etc., and have any suggestions about how it could be done better.

(5) You're interested in the book, have any questions or would simply like to know more.

OK, I await the deluge of "are you crazy?" e-mails and postings.

All the best,

Oliver

Good luck.

Someone over at the CBZ is about to interview Roberto Duran and is asking posters to suggest questions, maybe you have one about the Laing fight?

Hope the book goes well.

I'm very interested in a book on Kirkland, he was an awesome talent and such a character. I think Steve 'big daddy' Bunce thought about writing a book on Kirk a few years ago but was put off because either Kirk or his family wanted money up front. Have you written any books before?... I think you should still try and get the book published by a publisher rather than doing it yourself strightaway. Any book on Laing would be far better I feel if it had input from him and you should really try and track him down if possible... it may even be worth your while to give him some money up front if he is willing to participate in putting the book together with you... his recollections etc would make the book that much better I think... though that perhaps depends what sort of condition he is in these days. Last I heard about his whereabouts was that he had returned to Nottingham and has been seen at some fights there recently but isnt very talkative....
Anyway, hope these suggestions give you some help, good luck!...

Thanks guys.

Silkov - I completely agree with all of your points, which I have already thought through in depth. Can't go into too much detail not least due good old British libel laws (if you get my drift), but think that the way I'm approaching it is probably the most practical in the circumstances. As part of the research, have read every BN from cover to cover from 1965 to 1996 inclusive, plenty Boxing Monthly, Boxing Weekly, Nottingham Evening Post etc. etc., so if Kirk's said or done anything, I've got it. I utterly agree with you that it's always ideal to have the recollections of a biographical subject, but looks like that simply won't be a starter in this case. Given that plenty of good biogs are written about historical figures from past eras long gone, I don't think this will be fatal to the book, but fully understand where you're coming from.

I have thought about getting a proper publisher, but they would certainly edit out things like Kirk's amateur record. Bob Lonkhurst, who published the Dave Green book and a number of others all on a private basis, has given me some very helpful pointers, so it should look like an all-singing, all-dancing professionally produced hardback by the time I'm done. However, I will be ruthless and self-critical with the editing, so don't worry that it will be a stream of consciousness like my posts!

Thanks again,

Oliver

Yes, I understand what you mean about talking to Kirkland, you could still do a good book without his input, though it will probably make it a bit harder. You can still try interviewing his opponents where possible, it would be interesting to read what Colin Jones has to say about Laing and their fights... you could even maybe try and get a word with Mickey Duff. I remember reading that after their fight Duran said to Laing something like 'you one slick sonofabitch!' ...there was a interesting book out a while back where boxers talked about their greatest moment and their is a chapter on Laing where he talks about the Duran fight... I cant remember the title unfortunately... something like 'my greatest fight'. Worth tracking down if you havent already got it... 8)

I wish you good luck with your project. I was a big fan of Kirk's and have been trying to find out what has become of him since the program Steve Bunce did a while ago.

News I have is not so good... I got this reply from a taxi driver in Nottingham.

Hi, you were asking if anybody knew what happened to Kirkland Laing. I am a cab driver in Nottingham, my girlfriend works in a shop in the St Anns area, she serves him every single day. if you were to see him you would not recognise him my friend. He spends what little money he has on cheap cider and shuffles about all day outside the bookmakers opposite Ball street shop. he looks like a tramp. It is heartbreaking to see him in this state but I fear that he is beyond help. If I could help him I would but I am just a cab driver. I can remember the fights with Colin Jones and Del Bryan and when this shell of a man was one of the best boxers we had. What a pity that in a sport swimming in money, nobody is able to put an arm around his shoulder. Sorry if this shocks you but it is the awful truth.

If your project is succedful maybe this will help Kirk out - by the sounds of it giving him money may not be the help he needs.

For those who may not have seen it here is a link to the BBC vidoe profile of Laing that Steve Bunce did a few years ago.

Click video option on the right of the page.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_ ... 186337.stm

I can't help wondering whats led Kirkland down this route, is it an addictive personality or perhaps is it something to do with his percieved 'wasted talent'... maybe this is over analyzing things... I think Kirk always liked the high life and this was perhaps behind his frequent bouts of inactivity during his career... but its incredibly sad that he has ended up like this, its almost as if he is punishing himself for something... he's still a relatively young man and could do so much with his life if he got his head together...

Thanks everyone. Danny Boy - thanks for the news, which is sad but matches what I had heard through the grapevine. Could I ask a favour? Any chance you could put me in touch with your taxi driver friend so I could speak to him or his wife for the book. Obviously I'll keep it anonymous and will be very careful what I say, as my aim is certainly not to speak badly of Kirk. However, as this is the latest sighting of him, I'd like more details if I can get them! Perhaps you could e-mail me on [email protected] , or ask your friend to do so if you'd prefer not to give out his address.

By the way, Silkov - the book you're thinking of is "They Could've Been Contenders" by Jim McNeill, which I have a copy of, but many thanks for the thought, which is exactly the kind of input I'm after.

...sorry, I mean girlfriend, not wife, when I was referring to the cab driver - don't want to be responsible for costing a man his freedom (or should I say "many decades of married bliss" as I believe my wife occasionally checks this thread).

Also, on the point about Kirk getting some help, I entirely agree that money would not work in this instance, and anyway would only arrive some time in 2008 at the earliest if I did make any profits. If he is able to get himself together, he could always apply to the Midlands Ex-Boxers for up to £250 as soon as he is able, but whether he is able to get himself together is something I simply can't comment on.

Finally, Mr. Steve Bunce, are you out there? If you could drop me an e-mail on [email protected] , that would be much appreciated as I'd very much like to have a chat, though I know you're always v. busy.

I am delighted to hear that the book has got so far and well aware of the problems you have had to deal with..good luck and well done

One request - does anyone have a copy of the episode of Trisha on which Kirk appeared a few years ago when he was retired? It was mentioned in this forum a year or two ago. I think the episode was something to do with "My partner's out of shape", but am not certain. Not that I'm expecting anyone to admit they have back episodes of Trisha, of course, so you can always email me privately ([email protected]) to avoid this becoming its own episode entitled "I keep back episodes of Trisha and I'm proud of it!"

Thanks everyone,

Oliver

Too bad hearing about Laings current situation.
It sounds eerily similar to Johnny Brattons plight.
For years he was wandering around the streets here in Chicago. Homeless and confused. It was sad.

Good luck with a book that is long overdue. Kirk deserves this one... I had a PM discussion with Silkov about this very same topic about a year ago. There is definitely a great story in his life and career.

You should really approach publsihers now because you might just get some interest. In my experience books like this tend to get commisioned off the back of a couple of sample chapters and a synopsis. If I were you I'd put the idea around a few publishing houses (do your research though on what they're currently puting out).

All the best...

Ezzard - many thanks for your kind words. Good point about the publisher. I had considered putting it to a publisher, but have decided to keep a bit more editorial control by doing it myself. Things like Kirk's amateur record would be edited out by a publisher, and as I have a full time job with pretty irregular hours, it would be hard to keep to the demands of publishers for drafts by certain dates.

Looking further up the thread, I agree with the post that Kirk needs some help but money is probably not the way to do it. However, if anyone has any ideas on how he could be helped, feel free to suggest them. I'm happy to consider applying profits (if any!) in a way that could help him, but 2008 might be a little late.

Thanks again,

Oliver

olij999 wrote:Things like Kirk's amateur record would be edited out by a publisher,

Why do publishers do that?

Information on fighters amateur careers is just the sort of thing fight fans WANT in Boxing books.

What are these publishers thinkng of???

I agree! There are one or two commendable exceptions (I think Jim Watt's whole amateur record is in the appallingly titled "Watt's My Name") but they're the exceptions that prove the rule.

Also, the difficulty with using a publisher is that even if the book sells well, the proceeds get eaten up by bookshops, publishing cost, Amazon, for example. Only advantage is that it hedges your risk if the book flops, but that's a risk I'm prepared to take.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of your messages of support - just thought I'd let you know the latest. I have spoken to Kirk's ex-girlfriend and to his daughter, and my understanding is that Kirk is now being looked after by his family - as ever, I suspect that the rumours on the boxing grapevine, which is all I had to go on before, may have been a little exaggerated.

Therefore I'm hopeful that if any profits do arise from the book (big if, of course), that they could be passed to his family for them to use in an appropriate way. Anyway, I have written to them today explaining more background, and hope they will see that I am genuine and am doing it for the right reasons. I will keep you all posted of developments. Finger crossed!

All the best,

Oliver

Read this not so long ago and loved it. Real trip down memory lane. If you liked Kirk and want to remember the good old days then this is for you.