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Best and worse heavyweight champs ?
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 02:05
by cosand
Top and bottom 10 all time heavyweight champians?
Here are my lists in order...what do others think ?
Best
1 Muhammad Ali
2 Rocky Marciano
3 Jack Johnson
4 Joe Louis
5 Larry Holmes
6 George Forman
7 Gene Tunney
8 Joe Frazier
9 Jack Dempsey
10 Sonny Liston
Worse
1 Primo Carnara
2 Tommy Morrison
3 Michael Bentt
4 Gerrie Coetzee
5 Herbie Hide
6 Ingemar Johansson
7 Tony Tubbs
8 Jack Sharkey
9 Frank Bruno
10 Max Schmeling- Pinklon Thomas (tie)
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 03:29
by Aldo Pravisani
Personally I believe that except for Muhammad Ali and perhaps Larry Holmes no heavyweight champion of the last 40 years is worthy of top ten rankings.
I would, however, categorically state that Mike Tyson would belong to any listing of the 10 worst champions.
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 03:44
by Aldo Pravisani
Decagon wrote:Okay, I'll bite. What do your rankings look like?
Give me a short (not too short) time to work it out in my mind and I'll post a reply.
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 06:38
by thunderfromdownunder
even though i rate ali as no1 HW, louis must surley be no1 champion if, how many defences did he make? 21 or something
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 07:39
by BoxBuzz
As long as we are arguing between Louis and Ali as to who the best was....then sanity prevails at boxrec.
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 09:35
by Thunder and Lightning
Decagon wrote:Here is my top 10:
Here are my 10 worst Lineal Champions (I do not count Vitali Klitschko as a Lineal Champion, of course):
10. Hasim Rahman
9. Michael Moorer
8. Ingemar Johanssen
7. Buster Douglas
6. Marvin Hart
5. Primo Carnera
4. Leon Spinks
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jess Willard
1. Shannon Briggs
Hasim Rahman is to high he sucks more than Carnera, he is a guy who slipped on to the big scen he only beat Lennox and has no real talent, Buster Douglas had talent Leon Spinks won the olympics my point is Rahman should be in the bottom 3.
Re: Best and worse heavyweight champs ?
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 09:41
by pundit
cosand wrote:Top and bottom 10 all time heavyweight champians?
Here are my lists in order...what do others think ?
Best
1 Muhammad Ali
2 Rocky Marciano
3 Jack Johnson
4 Joe Louis
5 Larry Holmes
6 George Forman
7 Gene Tunney
8 Joe Frazier
9 Jack Dempsey
10 Sonny Liston
Louis should be at least #2; the rest is open to debate (although Marciano should not be #3 either)
Worse
1 Primo Carnara
2 Tommy Morrison
3 Michael Bentt
4 Gerrie Coetzee
5 Herbie Hide
6 Ingemar Johansson
7 Tony Tubbs
8 Jack Sharkey
9 Frank Bruno
10 Max Schmeling- Pinklon Thomas (tie)
Carnera wasn't "worse", and I have no clue what Sharkey and Schmeling are doing on that list. Johansson shouldn't be there either.
Re: Best and worse heavyweight champs ?
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 09:55
by Thunder and Lightning
cosand wrote: Worse
1 Primo Carnara
2 Tommy Morrison
3 Michael Bentt
4 Gerrie Coetzee
5 Herbie Hide
6 Ingemar Johansson
7 Tony Tubbs
8 Jack Sharkey
9 Frank Bruno
10 Max Schmeling- Pinklon Thomas (tie)
I agree with Pundit if you add the alphabet champs than waht in the hell is Shmeling, Johansson and Sharkey doing there considering they are much better than most of the alphachamps of all time, maybe not great names like Valuev, Rahman, Ruiz and now offcourse Maskaev but you know what champ is.
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 09:58
by JC
Coetzee should not be on there either, not a great, but certainly not 4th worst of all time.
Re: Best and worse heavyweight champs ?
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 17:34
by Friedie
cosand wrote:Top and bottom 10 all time heavyweight champians?
Here are my lists in order...what do others think ?
Best
4 Joe Louis
Worse
10 Max Schmeling- Pinklon Thomas (tie)
interesting ....one of the worst kayoed one of the best in the 12th round back in 1936.... and who is Pinklon Thomas in comparison to a Max Schmeling ?
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 19:32
by pundit
Decagon wrote:Anyone like my lists? I made them last night when I was feeling a little sick, and I haven't had a chance to go over them.
Like them by and large. Holyfield too high, you seem to dislike Fitzsimmons, and I have a slightly better opinion of Carnera; but all this is within the margin and error and otherwise they are pretty good.
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 19:43
by BoxBuzz
Decagon wrote:Anyone like my lists? I made them last night when I was feeling a little sick, and I haven't had a chance to go over them.
I think your list is well in the ball park myself.
re
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 20:49
by barry
>>>I think your list is well in the ball park myself.<<<
I agree, though I have no idea how you have Fitzsimmon so low.
Are you basing that on what you think he might not be able to accomplish because in all honesty, he did accomplish some pretty good wins at heavyweight, actually, some very good wins and handled himself very well against big, solid heavyweights...he certainly accomplished a lot more than a lot of heavyweights, especially those of the past 10, or 20 years!
Posted: 20 Aug 2006, 21:40
by Ambling Alp
Yeah, Fitzsimmons shouldn't be that low. He beat Corbett, Sharkey, Ruhlin.
Otherwise Decagon has a pretty solid list. You almost never are going to find two people with the exact same rankings; but his top 10 is pretty reasonable, and most of his bottom 10 is as well.
Posted: 21 Aug 2006, 19:44
by generic screen name
I don't get how Buster Douglas doesn't rate higher in people's list! It seems their more like lists on least talented heavyweight champs.
Douglas's reign as champ was an embarrassment. He showed up fat out of shape, and got knocked out by a punch he could've gotten up on. If theres intangibles on being the greatest champ of all time, why not the worst? (lack of heart, no guts etc.)
Posted: 22 Aug 2006, 09:34
by Ezzard
Decagon wrote:Here is my top 10:
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Joe Frazier
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Lennox Lewis
Here are my 10 worst Lineal Champions (I do not count Vitali Klitschko as a Lineal Champion, of course):
10. Hasim Rahman
9. Michael Moorer
8. Ingemar Johanssen
7. Buster Douglas
6. Marvin Hart
5. Primo Carnera
4. Leon Spinks
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Jess Willard
1. Shannon Briggs
Adding in WBC/WBA/IBF titlists:
10. Ernie Terrell
9. Marvin Hart
8. Primo Carnera
7. Leon Spinks
6. Bob Fitzsimmons
5. Frans Botha
4. Jess Willard
3. Bruce Seldon
2. Shannon Briggs
1. Nicolai Valuev
Adding in WBO titlists:
10. Leon Spinks
9. Corrie Sanders
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
7. Frans Botha
6. Jess Willard
5. Bruce Seldon
4. Herbie Hide
3. Shannon Briggs
2. Michael Bentt
1. Nicolai Valuev
You have an excellent top 10. We pretty much agree on the top 5. I'd like to squeeze in Jack Dempsey but his inclusion is quite contentious these days.
As for your list of worst fighters I'd take Willard over Carnera.
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 22:14
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Decagon wrote:Ambling Alp wrote:Yeah, Fitzsimmons shouldn't be that low. He beat Corbett, Sharkey, Ruhlin.
Otherwise Decagon has a pretty solid list. You almost never are going to find two people with the exact same rankings; but his top 10 is pretty reasonable, and most of his bottom 10 is as well.
Sorry, but I've seen Corbett. HE SUCKS! He'd have trouble with a prime Eric Harding.
your being way to hard on corbett! he would box circles around harding!
Posted: 23 Aug 2006, 22:24
by AndreWardFan2006
Biggest bust for a heavyweight champion goes to Leon Spinks, hands down.
re
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 04:41
by barry
Sorry Dec, but you cannot make a good, accurate determination of 15 years of a fighters career, or ability based on one minute of very, extremely poor film of a fighter! And for the record...a lot of fighters have been stopped by body shots!
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 06:03
by The Great John L
Decagon wrote:Ambling Alp wrote:Yeah, Fitzsimmons shouldn't be that low. He beat Corbett, Sharkey, Ruhlin.
Otherwise Decagon has a pretty solid list. You almost never are going to find two people with the exact same rankings; but his top 10 is pretty reasonable, and most of his bottom 10 is as well.
Sorry, but I've seen Corbett. HE SUCKS! He'd have trouble with a prime Eric Harding.
Then why not have Corbett in your list of worst? Since he lost to Corbett, I'm not sure why you'd have Fitz and not Corbett.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 08:18
by KO Artist
Best : Larry Holmes, closely followed by Joe Louis
Worst : Hasim Rahman, closely followed by Leon Spinks
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 15:24
by The Great John L
Decagon wrote:The Great John L wrote:Decagon wrote:Sorry, but I've seen Corbett. HE SUCKS! He'd have trouble with a prime Eric Harding.
Then why not have Corbett in your list of worst? Since he lost to Corbett, I'm not sure why you'd have Fitz and not Corbett.
Actually, I would have had him at #5, but he happened to slip my mind. I've been of poor health recently.
Sorry to hear that you’ve been under the weather. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 19:34
by cosand
Well, you spelled 90% of the names right. I guess that's a start. You just ranked Nicolai Valuev over Jack Sharkey and Max Schmeling. Don't expect to make too many friends.
Sharky and Shmeling belong below Valuev, but if I were doing a bottom 15, he would have been on the list
To rank Lewis in the top 10, and Rhaman in the bottom 10 defies logic.
Spinks in the bottom 10 is iffy at best
Sanders Knocked out a current heavyweight champ who is not in your bottom 10, so he being listed is a tad questionable as well.
Bentt on notch above Valuev boggles the mind, and Morrison not being on any list of the bottom 10, not even the WBO list, MUST have been an oversight
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 19:40
by cosand
interesting ....one of the worst kayoed one of the best in the 12th round back in 1936.... and who is Pinklon Thomas in comparison to a Max Schmeling ?
Schmeling had the fight of his life against Lewis. Nothing he did before or after showed that he even belonged in the same ring with him.
Posted: 24 Aug 2006, 21:20
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
