BoxRec

i dont understand the logic. i think a peak liston destroys foreman

I'd go for Liston over Foreman too... much better fighter technically with much better stamina... had one of the best jabs I've seen... Foreman was probably the stronger fighter but other than that Liston has the edge in everything else... Ali himself always said that Liston was the superior fighter....

People always hold the Ali fights against Liston... I think thats why he's underrated by so many people... also those who havent seen any of his longer fights just thing of him as a heavy hitting brute and dont realise what a great technical fighter he was....

For one....after Liston was exposed as being nothing more than a bully with a punch...he never could reinvent himself. After the Ali fights he showed how good he really was, and that's nothing to talk up.

Foreman beat the likes of Frazier and beat contender after contender in the greatest era in HW history. Who did Liston fight that was on the level with Frazier? Not Cleveland Williams, though he was a big puncher, though untested. How can you really compare Foreman's opponents to Liston's?

Sure Foreman molded himself after Liston, but Foreman was far more powerful, much larger, and far more fierce than his mentor. Both men had excellent jabs, I do give Liston that much---but Liston never could pull himself together, he was weak in his skull, mentally weak. Foreman reinvented himself and defied all logic.

Either way, I can see the Foreman from 1972 and 1994 being able to beat a prime Sonny Liston, sorry, but the man never did prove that he was one of the greatest champions, never was able to get over his losses to Ali and most of all, relied on his bully image more than he did skill to beat his opponents.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i dont understand the logic. i think a peak liston destroys foreman

I agree.

Liston of 1958/59 would KO the wild swinging Foreman in 7 rounds or less.

Watch Liston Williams in 1960 and then Foreman Lyle in 1976.

asdf

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:For one....after Liston was exposed as being nothing more than a bully with a punch...he never could reinvent himself. After the Ali fights he showed how good he really was, and that's nothing to talk up.

Foreman beat the likes of Frazier and beat contender after contender in the greatest era in HW history. Who did Liston fight that was on the level with Frazier? Not Cleveland Williams, though he was a big puncher, though untested. How can you really compare Foreman's opponents to Liston's?

Sure Foreman molded himself after Liston, but Foreman was far more powerful, much larger, and far more fierce than his mentor. Both men had excellent jabs, I do give Liston that much---but Liston never could pull himself together, he was weak in his skull, mentally weak. Foreman reinvented himself and defied all logic.

Either way, I can see the Foreman from 1972 and 1994 being able to beat a prime Sonny Liston, sorry, but the man never did prove that he was one of the greatest champions, never was able to get over his losses to Ali and most of all, relied on his bully image more than he did skill to beat his opponents.

How many fights have you actually seen of Liston?.... if his losses to Ali make him a bully then Foreman is no less a bully himself... watch the fights before you criticise the fighter...

KO Artist wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:i dont understand the logic. i think a peak liston destroys foreman

I agree.

Liston of 1958/59 would KO the wild swinging Foreman in 7 rounds or less.

Watch Liston Williams in 1960 and then Foreman Lyle in 1976.

So prime Liston vs. past-his-prime Foreman? What should I learn from this?

Yea, Liston was just plain better than Foreman. He had the same kind of strength, durability and power, but with a lot more class and versatility.

DoubleM wrote:Yea, Liston was just plain better than Foreman. He had the same kind of strength, durability and power, but with a lot more class and versatility.

Liston definately had more boxing skills then Foreman did, but Foreman would have used his jab on Liston all night long. Liston did have a good jab, but if you snuck by Foreman's jab...you better expect a deadly uppercut behind it. If Foreman decided to rush Liston and fight offensively he would eat Liston up, for we all know Liston was no counter-puncher.

asdf

Bigger, stronger, more initimidating.

silkov wrote:

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:For one....after Liston was exposed as being nothing more than a bully with a punch...he never could reinvent himself. After the Ali fights he showed how good he really was, and that's nothing to talk up.

Foreman beat the likes of Frazier and beat contender after contender in the greatest era in HW history. Who did Liston fight that was on the level with Frazier? Not Cleveland Williams, though he was a big puncher, though untested. How can you really compare Foreman's opponents to Liston's?

Sure Foreman molded himself after Liston, but Foreman was far more powerful, much larger, and far more fierce than his mentor. Both men had excellent jabs, I do give Liston that much---but Liston never could pull himself together, he was weak in his skull, mentally weak. Foreman reinvented himself and defied all logic.

Either way, I can see the Foreman from 1972 and 1994 being able to beat a prime Sonny Liston, sorry, but the man never did prove that he was one of the greatest champions, never was able to get over his losses to Ali and most of all, relied on his bully image more than he did skill to beat his opponents.

How many fights have you actually seen of Liston?.... if his losses to Ali make him a bully then Foreman is no less a bully himself... watch the fights before you criticise the fighter...

That's right Foreman was just as much of a bully in his first career as Liston. Also I fail to see how Foreman re-inventing himself after the Ali fight has anything to do with a hypothetical match up between the two.

Foreman has the edge in power Liston in boxing skills both inside and outside it would be a great fight I too would lean toward Liston.

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:

DoubleM wrote:Yea, Liston was just plain better than Foreman. He had the same kind of strength, durability and power, but with a lot more class and versatility.

Liston definately had more boxing skills then Foreman did, but Foreman would have used his jab on Liston all night long. Liston did have a good jab, but if you snuck by Foreman's jab...you better expect a deadly uppercut behind it. If Foreman decided to rush Liston and fight offensively he would eat Liston up, for we all know Liston was no counter-puncher.

Nobody eats Liston up. He was as strong and powerful as Foreman, but more refined and perhaps a tad faster at his peak ('58-'60). The '62 onwards Liston was too bulky and slow, his stamina also suffered.

Foreman is and was a proven Legend. Liston is a proven quitter with no heart. Big deal about his pther fights, Ali showed Liston up for what he is. Don't ever compare him to the likes of Foreman. George would take him out in 2 rds. Too powerful and hard a puncher for a quitter like Liston.
George has just too much heart and balls to lose

walshb wrote:Foreman is and was a proven Legend. Liston is a proven quitter with no heart. Big deal about his pther fights, Ali showed Liston up for what he is. Don't ever compare him to the likes of Foreman. George would take him out in 2 rds. Too powerful and hard a puncher for a quitter like Liston.
George has just too much heart and balls to lose

walshb wrote:Foreman is and was a proven Legend. Liston is a proven quitter with no heart. Big deal about his pther fights, Ali showed Liston up for what he is. Don't ever compare him to the likes of Foreman. George would take him out in 2 rds. Too powerful and hard a puncher for a quitter like Liston.
George has just too much heart and balls to lose

Foreman is a "legend" largely because he came back after 20 years and regained the title - no mean achievement - and because he invented the "George Foreman Grill". If you're assessing his status as a "legend" in pure boxing terms then his first win over Frazier - who was made for George - is his major claim to fame. Against Ron Lyle and others he looked clumsy and little more than a slugger.

I suspect you are judging Liston purely through the two Ali fights? Liston cleaned up the heavyweight division before he was finally given his title shot by Patterson - several years after he should have had it. There wasn't a top 10 fighter that Liston didn't face and beat - till Ali came along. To say that Liston was a quitter is unfair, and plain wrong.... if he was a quitter then he'd have looked for a way out against Cleveland Williams (watch the fight via youtube) and he'd have lost by TKO to Marshall in their first fight when his jaw was broken.

Liston was a far better boxer than Foreman, and would stop him in 5-7 rounds.

Just an opinion of course - but one formed from having watched many fights involving both men.

J

Liston is far more versatile than Foreman.

Ali didn't call Foreman a mummy for nothing.

Liston would have beaten him on points IMO.