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Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 05:09
by Axe
19-13 human punching bag, Richard Grant. The only top fifteen guy that Andrade's fought in his entire career was 39 year old, blown up middleweight Grant. How is any of this supposed to prepare him for a unified champ?
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 05:48
by Autobarn
Axe wrote:19-13 human punching bag, Richard Grant. The only top fifteen guy that Andrade's fought in his entire career was 39 year old, blown up middleweight Grant. How is any of this supposed to prepare him for a unified champ?
is this the Alien Grant who extended Lacy?
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 12:54
by steve689
Yes Richard "The Alien" Grant who James Butler sucker punched.
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 13:43
by Axe
viciousmaussa wrote:Axe wrote:19-13 human punching bag, Richard Grant. The only top fifteen guy that Andrade's fought in his entire career was 39 year old, blown up middleweight Grant. How is any of this supposed to prepare him for a unified champ?
is this the Alien Grant who extended Lacy?
Yes. I forgot all about that fight. I think it took whatever was left in Grant out of him, after being floored twice and punished in general by Jeff.
Since then, he's had such wonderful results as being nearly shut out by the recently exposed Yusuf Mack, and fighting to a draw with a (19-29) no hoper...basically, he's won one of his last four, and only three of his last eight fights (against fellow stiffs of course).
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 13:55
by Axe
I think shoutout2u's theory of GBP only caring about getting Andrade the title shot, and not really expecting him to win any titles, has some clout now in the sense that Librado should be fighting guys who could at least challenge him a bit.
I can't be the only one that knows that Andrade had less than 19 amateur fights.
A fighter like that needs to be constantly tested so that he can improve as a pro sufficiently enough to compensate for his lack of fundamentals. One fight against the top fifteen will not do it for Andrade, unfortunately.
I realize now is hardly the time to fight a top ranked opponent, but he should at least be testing himself against a Berrio/Echols/Sanavia type, where he might actually learn something and be challenged for a few rounds.
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 14:44
by lankester
Axe wrote:19-13 human punching bag, Richard Grant. The only top fifteen guy that Andrade's fought in his entire career was 39 year old, blown up middleweight Grant. How is any of this supposed to prepare him for a unified champ?
Grant was the "eliminator" it wasnt a preparation ... it was the fight who give him the right to fight the champ.
Also since his return 3 years ago, grant had a 7 fight winning streak which give him a nice position at the WBC.
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 21:53
by Axe
lankester wrote:Axe wrote:19-13 human punching bag, Richard Grant. The only top fifteen guy that Andrade's fought in his entire career was 39 year old, blown up middleweight Grant. How is any of this supposed to prepare him for a unified champ?
Grant was the "eliminator" it wasnt a preparation ... it was the fight who give him the right to fight the champ.
Also since his return 3 years ago, grant had a 7 fight winning streak which give him a nice position at the WBC.
Ture, but by fighting dangerous fights, including eliminators, a fighter also gets prepared for the division's best. We've been over the Otis Grant fight already; he was a good fighter and titlist at 160, but was already too far gone to outbox Andrade for the whole 12.
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 22:57
by lankester
Axe wrote:lankester wrote:Axe wrote:19-13 human punching bag, Richard Grant. The only top fifteen guy that Andrade's fought in his entire career was 39 year old, blown up middleweight Grant. How is any of this supposed to prepare him for a unified champ?
Grant was the "eliminator" it wasnt a preparation ... it was the fight who give him the right to fight the champ.
Also since his return 3 years ago, grant had a 7 fight winning streak which give him a nice position at the WBC.
Ture, but by fighting dangerous fights, including eliminators, a fighter also gets prepared for the division's best. We've been over the Otis Grant fight already; he was a good fighter and titlist at 160, but was already too far gone to outbox Andrade for the whole 12.
Agree with that, and we have to give credit to Andrade ... he did what was the best tactic agains a good old boxer ... pressure him and take his energy so he got nothing left after few round.
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 04:14
by Blue
Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 04:53
by Maxime
This is only a stay busy fight to stay active while he wait for his shot at the winner of the Kessler/Beyer fight.
Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 10:22
by celticwarrior
Andrade's now being trained by Wayne McCullough.
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 14:28
by Axe
Mendoza was a shot welterweight (iirc), and Stewart wasn't top 15 or even 20 by any means (although I agree he wasn't terrible, just sliding already at 33 years of age).
Adamek wasn't properly prepared for a title fight as well. He had beat some decent contenders on his way up, but no top 15 fights, either. THe difference is, Adamek at that stage lacked a powerful promoter...Andrade has Oscar in his corner and instead of challenging himself is fighting stiff after stiff before his title fight.
Also, Adamek/Briggs 1 was for a vacant title, Andrade is supposed to be prepared for a unified champ, which after just 15 or so amateur fights and one ranked contender, he clearly is not.
Re: Andrade Fighting Another Bum
Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 14:31
by Axe
lankester wrote:Axe wrote:lankester wrote:
Grant was the "eliminator" it wasnt a preparation ... it was the fight who give him the right to fight the champ.
Also since his return 3 years ago, grant had a 7 fight winning streak which give him a nice position at the WBC.
Ture, but by fighting dangerous fights, including eliminators, a fighter also gets prepared for the division's best. We've been over the Otis Grant fight already; he was a good fighter and titlist at 160, but was already too far gone to outbox Andrade for the whole 12.
Agree with that, and we have to give credit to Andrade ... he did what was the best tactic agains a good old boxer ... pressure him and take his energy so he got nothing left after few round.
Yes, tactically it was the right way to fight Grant.
But Andrade is rather limited, he can only really fight one way, which happened to fit the bill for Grant. You won't see him sticking and moving against anyone, especially someone with half a pulse.
Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 18:10
by shoutout
Axe wrote:I think shoutout2u's theory of GBP only caring about getting Andrade the title shot, and not really expecting him to win any titles, has some clout now in the sense that Librado should be fighting guys who could at least challenge him a bit.
I can't be the only one that knows that Andrade had less than 19 amateur fights.
A fighter like that needs to be constantly tested so that he can improve as a pro sufficiently enough to compensate for his lack of fundamentals. One fight against the top fifteen will not do it for Andrade, unfortunately.
I realize now is hardly the time to fight a top ranked opponent, but he should at least be testing himself against a Berrio/Echols/Sanavia type, where he might actually learn something and be challenged for a few rounds.
i might add that
i hope my theory would not play out to be accurate...BUT the fight against grant seems to add strength to the theory!! the reason i hope it is NOT an accurate theory is because i have been a big oscar delahoya fan throughout his career and believe he has & will continue to be a
big plus to the sport as a promoter (even if he chooses not to fight again vs PBF), but everyone has their downside & this strategy seems to demonstrate his plan is to get andrade an easy title fight!!
that doesnt mean he will necessarily abandon andrade after he loses (as arum has done with augie sanchez & others)...it just means he can use the unsuccessful title challenge as a method of continuing to promote andrade as an "accomplished ex-world challenger" (providing he doesnt get BLOWN OUT) & maybe even get him other future title shots (especially with wbo, who likes to recycle non-threatening "contenders" like sebastian lujan---who didnt deserve shot vs margarito & "earned" his 2nd title shot (vs sergei dzindziruk) by getting dominated by antonio!!
as long as andrade has a decent chin, oscar could turn him into a "recycled" lujan-type contender!!
oscar obviously learned a lot from his promotional mentor bob arum, but i think he will turn out to be more of a plus for the fight game than the generally unscrupulous arum!!
Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 19:45
by Axe
shoutout2u wrote:oscar obviously learned a lot from his promotional mentor bob arum, but i think he will turn out to be more of a plus for the fight game than the generally unscrupulous arum!!
Agreed on both fronts.
Posted: 30 Aug 2006, 16:42
by steve689
De La Hoya has staged some decent bouts so far, i'm in favour of his promotional venture.
Posted: 30 Aug 2006, 23:52
by Maxime
I'm looking forward to Kessler -vs- Andrade on HBO in Febuary or March of next year.
Posted: 31 Aug 2006, 16:43
by Axe
Maxime wrote:I'm looking forward to Kessler -vs- Andrade on HBO in Febuary or March of next year.
I'm not. Andrade won't be close to ready for someone like JC or Kessler. Very short amateur career and one top 15 opponent in the pros = an a$$ whipping waiting to happen.
Posted: 31 Aug 2006, 20:24
by shoutout
steve689 wrote:De La Hoya has staged some decent bouts so far, i'm in favour of his promotional venture.
absolutely!! he will be a big plus to the fight game & could go down as one of the great promoters, but that doesnt mean he is above manipulating the system to his fighters' advantage...and he learned lots of tricks from his mentor bob "greedy" arum!!
........
Posted: 02 Sep 2006, 03:57
by valdosta
Beyer was a smart guy going for unification instead of Andrade. Andrade would have whipped his ass.
Re: ........
Posted: 02 Sep 2006, 07:34
by Autobarn
valdosta wrote:Beyer was a smart guy going for unification instead of Andrade. Andrade would have whipped his ass.
totally unfounded. chances are Andrade would've got subtly outboxed and bitched robbery afterward. As of now, LA is not in the same class. GB will be queasy about sending good fighters abroad after what Abraham did to Ikeke in Germany.
My guess is that Andrade will go on to Charles Brewer and Byron Mitchell 'dangerous but limited' level, but no further. Hence he will get outmanouevred by a quality title holder, as the did.
Posted: 02 Sep 2006, 13:23
by Max Molyneux
Who are the other guys on Andrade's list accept former WBO champ Grant?
Well you know how the WBC are biased for Mexicans. Erik Morales, no 1 Lightweight contender, enough said.
Re: ........
Posted: 02 Sep 2006, 13:56
by valdosta
viciousmaussa wrote:valdosta wrote:Beyer was a smart guy going for unification instead of Andrade. Andrade would have whipped his ass.
totally unfounded. chances are Andrade would've got subtly outboxed and bitched robbery afterward. As of now, LA is not in the same class. GB will be queasy about sending good fighters abroad after what Abraham did to Ikeke in Germany.
My guess is that Andrade will go on to Charles Brewer and Byron Mitchell 'dangerous but limited' level, but no further. Hence he will get outmanouevred by a quality title holder, as the did.
Odds are Andrade would have gone to Germany and knocked crappy Beyer out. Instead they are cashing Beyer out against another titleist which makes sense. I heard they are getting paid well to fight Kessler. I doubt he would have made as much to have Andrade take his title. Sound bussiness move. Andrade wouldn't beat the real champions of the division but he would have beaten Beyer badly.
Re: ........
Posted: 03 Sep 2006, 04:03
by shoutout
valdosta wrote:viciousmaussa wrote:valdosta wrote:Beyer was a smart guy going for unification instead of Andrade. Andrade would have whipped his ass.
totally unfounded. chances are Andrade would've got subtly outboxed and bitched robbery afterward. As of now, LA is not in the same class. GB will be queasy about sending good fighters abroad after what Abraham did to Ikeke in Germany.
My guess is that Andrade will go on to Charles Brewer and Byron Mitchell 'dangerous but limited' level, but no further. Hence he will get outmanouevred by a quality title holder, as the did.
Odds are Andrade would have gone to Germany and knocked crappy Beyer out. Instead they are cashing Beyer out against another titleist which makes sense. I heard they are getting paid well to fight Kessler. I doubt he would have made as much to have Andrade take his title. Sound bussiness move. Andrade wouldn't beat the real champions of the division but he would have beaten Beyer badly.
i agree beyer is overrated and has had some lucky breaks (most recently vs bika) but i dont think andrade is all that either & would probably outbox andrade!
Re: ........
Posted: 03 Sep 2006, 04:57
by Axe
valdosta wrote:viciousmaussa wrote:valdosta wrote:Beyer was a smart guy going for unification instead of Andrade. Andrade would have whipped his ass.
totally unfounded. chances are Andrade would've got subtly outboxed and bitched robbery afterward. As of now, LA is not in the same class. GB will be queasy about sending good fighters abroad after what Abraham did to Ikeke in Germany.
My guess is that Andrade will go on to Charles Brewer and Byron Mitchell 'dangerous but limited' level, but no further. Hence he will get outmanouevred by a quality title holder, as the did.
Odds are Andrade would have gone to Germany and knocked crappy Beyer out. Instead they are cashing Beyer out against another titleist which makes sense. I heard they are getting paid well to fight Kessler. I doubt he would have made as much to have Andrade take his title. Sound bussiness move. Andrade wouldn't beat the real champions of the division but he would have beaten Beyer badly.
And you base this on what? His win over 40 year old Grant?
