BoxRec

I recall a movie I seen years ago...made famous by Rod Sterling and Jack Palance in the tv version, where Anthony Quinn played a punch drunk boxer named Mountain Rivera who had to retire because he couldn't fight anymore with the young up and coming fighters.

The lines are still vivid in my head...

"Mountain Rivera was no bum! I was number five in the world. Hard to do when Marciano, Walcott and Charles were fighting then. I am no bum. I was almost the champion of the world!"

Only to be brought down to the lowest of lows, he became a professional wrestler, wearing an Indian head dress and carrying a tomahawk to the ring, against his wishes. They told him it was all a farce that it was all a joke, that wrestling was a work and it was no fight, that he had to LOSE.

"I never taken a dive in my life I won't do it! Don't turn me into a circus clown!"

But in the end...he does...and becomes a freakshow.

Mike Tyson, now 40, is in Las Vegas "working out" in a makeshift piece of shit ring next to jackpot machines as money grubbers are trying to get rich and Tyson is just trying to survive and get out of debt...in a sport, in a ring, that he now despises and vowed never to do again.

But it's the only thing he knows...

I remember when McBride beat him and Tyson said "Not taking anything away from Kevin, but we all know his credentials, and if I can't beat guys like Kevin McBride I can't fight anymore. I won't embarass this sport any more. I'm done."

Myself, I predicted that McBride would win, even though I still loved Mike Tyson.

Now Tyson has a deal where he will fight several 3 round exhibitions in Las Vegas. Against who? Who knows. At three rounds, Butterbean might just get his wish of fighting Tyson after all...this is how far down Tyson has become.

He already appeared in the WWE once before, I am surprised McMahon ain't offering Tyson six figures by now. Whatever happened to K-1 with the Bob Sapp fights and the lucrative deals? Like that would make Tyson look anymore a joke to the world.

All Tyson has now is his name, and some might argue, that is all he had for the last 10 years...

I hope Mike Tyson's end won't be like Louis' or Liston' being casino greeters and bouncers...and maybe worse, wearing a costume in the middle of a wrestling ring facing off and losing to Triple H or Randy Orton or The Undertaker, guys who wouldn't ever have beaten the Tyson of the McBride fight under the Marquis of Queensbury.

The movie "Requiem for a heavywight" to me is one of the best movies made on the tragedy of boxers (and athletes in other sports) who don't know how and when to quit.

Mike Tyson to me, even when he was winning his bouts and terrifying the opposition, was already one of the poorest World Heavyweight Champions of all time, because of what he showed me that he lacked in the ring.

Nevertheless I hope for his sake and the sake of the sport, that he does not have to descend to the status of a clown, very much like the fictional Rivera and the very real late great Joe Louis, and the not so great, but at least he made his fortune out of it, Primo Carnera,

From what I understand Carnera ended up an alcoholic and financially desitute after his boxing and wrestling career.

I think another sad case is Frank Bruno and Kirkland Laing, who for many years [and still is I think] sleeping on park benches and became a drug addict. Bruno on the other hand ended up a mental case after his divorce, and was supposed to fight "Fraudley" Harrison who made the ridiculous statement: "Who do you want me to fight next? Frank Bruno? or Herbie Hide?" in all seriousness.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:From what I understand Carnera ended up an alcoholic and financially desitute after his boxing and wrestling career.

I always believed that Primo did alright out of wrestling, but most likely I am (again) wrong.

A good thing about the Italian giant, he took American citizenship, purchased a liquor store and became reasonably wealthy after his sporting life was ended.

He died not terribly old, and was buried in Sequals, near Udine in North Italy.

Carnera did make a fortune out of Wreastling but died of liver disease... probably owning his own liquor store didnt help... its like owning a sweet shop, its hard not to start eating too many sweets. Having said that though its possible that Carneras illness was caused by the punishment he took in the ring, certainly as a boxer... he spent months in hospital after his last boxing match and must have suffered some long lasting effects.
To be honest I find it hard to feel too sorry for Tyson, a lot of his problems he has sowen himself, he's taken far more from boxing than he's given imo and in all has been a disarster for the sport. I don't wish him any harm but just wish he would go away from the ring and not do the sport any more damage...

..joe louis was actually the inspiration for requiem for a heavyweight. rod serling lived in cincinnati then, and he saw joe louis in a wrestling match and was disturbed that this great fighter was reduced to this shabby event to help pay off his tax debt. of course, he made the fictional fighter much less of an icon and a more general portrait of boxers who suffer when their careers are over.

i don't know if the irs fascists were still at it so brazenly at this time, but for a while they actually had a tax nazi in the bomber's dressing room after his prize fights to dip his mangy hand into louis' purse.

They were constantly after him even though he had donated a ton of money to the Army relief fund.
To the irs that meant nothing.

..samuel....while most people ...and boxing fans/historians with a basic understanding of the written word have read about joe louis and the irs, you no doubt have trouble with comprehension or retention of memory.

i'll bring it down to basics, though the finer details require more explanation.....but the major irs scandal was this:

joe louis donated each if his purses from his second fights with buddy baer and abe simon to the army and navy relief fund....i forget in which order. didn't collect a dime. well after the war the irs decided these purses were income and he was allowed to deduct only one third of each,as charity donations. plus, he had followed some bad advice from tax lawyers. now...the irs began its stealing of his money just when joe louis was enrtering the last stages of his career,and his big money days were waning. therefore, when he did fight the gangsters came in and took just about all of his earnings from each bout. now, as the irs does not allow one take a tax deduction from tax payments...that is..if he earned a hundred thousand dollars from a gate and the tax nazis took $90,000 as part of his debt, he would still be taxed on the earning of one hundred thousand dollars. so of course there was no way he could get out from under their oppression...the more he earned, the more he earned, and when his earnings virtually vanished, there was still the old debt to pay. he was essentially saved by his marriage to a highly intelligent lawyer, who offered a settlement he could afford. the mini-hitlers rejected this, so she just said he would stop earning any income at all, so there was nothing to steal from. frank sinatra stepped in....and mrs. louis said if the bomber chose, for example, to fly to vegas, or spain, or needed a car , sinatra just gave it to him,paying whatever other shady taxes were involved. finally the irs wrote off the debt.

there is much more to the story. if you are interesrted i'm sure you can find someone who will help you to research it.

Decagon wrote:
Even as late as the 1970s, the IRS was claiming bullshit. Mike Nesmith, a white entertainer, ran a film production company that ended up losing money. A few years after it folded, the IRS declared that his film production company was a "hobby" and hit him with HUGE back tax penalties.

Was that the Mike Nesmith of Monkeey's fame, Decagon?

Evander Holyfield reminds me a little bit of Mountain Rivera, in the sense both men can't talk too good and that Holyfield is still trying for a world title. :( I like Holyfield, I met him when I was seven years old before he faced Tyson for the second time, but he did something not even Ali could do, winning the HW title 4x's and was also the greatest Cruiserweight champion of all time. But he wants to be a 5x champion and at age 42 I don't think it's possible, as his skills have diminished, if Jeremy Bates could rock him with a single shot in the first round...I'd hate to see what any of the top men could do.

I don't like to be mean, but what does guys like Holyfield and Thomas Hearns have left to prove? I remember seeing Hearns comeback fight at Cruiserweight, and I brought in my niece and nephew and told them, "At one time that man was one of the greatest fighters of all time." They didn't believe me, after 3 rounds of watching the most sloppy and slow action I have seen in years they said "That guy sucks!" and left the room, hell I even changed the channel myself after forcing myself to watch two more rounds of the mess.

I recall the sorrowful lines of Jackie Gleason in the movie:

"If you gotta' say anything to him, tell him you pity him. Tell him you feel so sorry for him you could cry. But don't con him. Don't tell him he could be a counsellor at a boys' camp. He's been chasing ghosts so long he'll believe anything. Any kind of a ghost. Championship belt, pretty girl... maybe just 24 hours without an ache in his body. Doesn't make any difference. It all passed him."

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Evander Holyfield reminds me a little bit of Mountain Rivera, in the sense both men can't talk too good and that Holyfield is still trying for a world title. :( I like Holyfield, I met him when I was seven years old before he faced Tyson for the second time, but he did something not even Ali could do, winning the HW title 4x's and was also the greatest Cruiserweight champion of all time. But he wants to be a 5x champion and at age 42 I don't think it's possible, as his skills have diminished, if Jeremy Bates could rock him with a single shot in the first round...I'd hate to see what any of the top men could do.

What are you talking about? Holyfield talks perfectly fine. He sounds exactly like he did in the interviews he did in his first few professional fights.

Plus Bates caught him with a shot in the 2nd round, not the first.

Decagon wrote:

evndrbsn wrote:Whatde he you be onabow? Holyfield eh neh slackin in the slacka'. He ouns yo likey did en es a rookie.

Fixed.

Very nice, thanks.

Actually Holyfield failed to equal Ali's accomplishment. Holyfield only held the linear title twice whereas Ali held the linear title on three occasions. Claims that he was a 4 time champion or some such nonsense are frankly rediculous and insulting to the champions who did not live in an era with numerous bogus titles. If there is more than one champion in a weight class at the same time it loses its significance.

Muhammad Ali didn't win the Undisputed title 3x's. In his rematch with Spinks only the WBA title was at stake, because Spinks failed to face Norton, his mandatory. So Ali in actuality won the Undisputed title twice and a portion of the actual title in the WBA strap, for him to have won the championship 3x's he would have had to have faced Norton after beating Spinks. Ali only held a fragmented title from the lineal champion.

Nonetheless it does count as him winning the HW title 3x's. Holyfield has won the Undisputed title once [Buster Douglas] and won parts of his title back from Bowe and Moorer, and then winning the WBA strap from John Ruiz making him a 4x HW champion.

His accomplishment is just as good as Ali's was, and considering he is also the greatest Cruiserweight champion ever and his record at HW is just as grand if not more, it's not fair on Holyfield to say that he isn't as spectacular [record wise and accomplishments] as Ali.

Ali has failed in a sense as to what Holyfield is doing. Ali fought competively for two decades as a top man, Holyfield has been fighting for three decades almost as a professional and still fights, before the Donald loss he was facing off for the IBF title against Byrd, and it's clear that Holyfield is above and beyond better at 42 than what Ali was from 1978-1981.

In a sense Holyfield is doing something that is damn near superhuman, almost Formanesque still going on and facing against contenders, winning some and losing some.

I do have major doubts that he could win a title, whether that be the WBA/WBO/IBF/WBC. But Holyfield has proven alot of people wrong throughout the years, so maybe...and that maybe is a HUGE if...he has one last great fight in him.

Holyfield only was the legitimate champion twice. Ali was considered the legitamite champion on three occassions. Beating Ruiz and Tyson made Holyfield a belt-holder but not the legitimate champion. Holyfield deserves credit for wins over other top contenders but he was only a two-time champion.

Anyways.....back to Tyson...

I just heard a few days ago that Tyson signed on to fight in an upcoming PRIDE FIGHTING championship card. Iono who his opponent is, but it doesn't surprise me none though. He was going to fight in K-1 a few years back, supposedly with Bob Sapp or Rick Roufus, but it never happened.

Tyson has become Mountain Rivera.

There's an element of wishful thinking here...Tyson as Mountain Rivera? I don't see it...first of all,Tyson doesn't need boxing to make money. The man has one of the highest profiles in America...He's maybe the most recognizable sports figure in the world. His fame alone is probably worth many mllions with endorsements...appearances is another viable option. Tyson was in Denmark, Italy, and England and they loved him. They'd love him in asia and africa too....He could make millions over there... Mountain Rivera was an unknown also-ran. Tyson is an international legend and superstar. He's out of boxing and just having fun doing things he enjoys and getting a lot of flattering attention in every country he visits. The media followed his recent globe-trotting with all kinds of grudging fascination. Even people who pretend to dismiss Tyson will comment on his every move and latest remark. This isn't Joe Louis resorting to wrestling to pay bills or Evander Holyfield on a pipe dream pursuit of a heavywt title...Tyson is a beloved icon in many quarters and will never have to disgrace himself to put food on the table, despite what haters want to believe.

Dentsun4228 wrote: ....The man has one of the highest profiles in America......Tyson is a beloved icon in many quarters and will never have to disgrace........

So does Jeffrey Dahmer and also Ted Bundy.....He disgraced himself long, long ago. He probably does not have to do it again.

Dentsun4228 wrote:There's an element of wishful thinking here...Tyson as Mountain Rivera? I don't see it...first of all,Tyson doesn't need boxing to make money. The man has one of the highest profiles in America...He's maybe the most recognizable sports figure in the world. His fame alone is probably worth many mllions with endorsements...appearances is another viable option. Tyson was in Denmark, Italy, and England and they loved him. They'd love him in asia and africa too....He could make millions over there... Mountain Rivera was an unknown also-ran. Tyson is an international legend and superstar. He's out of boxing and just having fun doing things he enjoys and getting a lot of flattering attention in every country he visits. The media followed his recent globe-trotting with all kinds of grudging fascination. Even people who pretend to dismiss Tyson will comment on his every move and latest remark. This isn't Joe Louis resorting to wrestling to pay bills or Evander Holyfield on a pipe dream pursuit of a heavywt title...Tyson is a beloved icon in many quarters and will never have to disgrace himself to put food on the table, despite what haters want to believe.

I highly doubt many companies are going to line up to have a convicted rapist endorse their products.

CarneraKOsSharkey wrote:I highly doubt many companies are going to line up to have a convicted rapist endorse their products.

Well, maybe the companies that make the morning after pill?

Aldo Pravisani wrote:

Dentsun4228 wrote: ....The man has one of the highest profiles in America......Tyson is a beloved icon in many quarters and will never have to disgrace........

So does Jeffrey Dahmer and also Ted Bundy.....He disgraced himself long, long ago. He probably does not have to do it again.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you're talking about the Holyfield bite fight. The thing here is, I don't think the general public is really that stupid and ingenuous. People know who Tyson was...I have talked to people who are only casual fight fans and they tend to sympathize with Tyson...people make mistakes. Most people are smart enough to know that and look past imperfections in others...bottomline is: Tyson was an amazing fighter in his prime and one of the most celebrated athletes ever. People remember that more than the flaws.

[quote="samuel"]I have a hard time feeling sorry for Tyson, seeing as how he pissed away fortunes that most of us can only dream about.[/quote]

I am also from Northeast, US and was brought up a Catholic, although I dropped out a long time ago. But, I remember a saying, "there but for the grace of God, I go" - or something close to this.

I am appalled by the Mike Tyson of the last 10 years or so. But, I remember the Mike Tyson who live with Cus D'Amato and watched fight films from the library of Jimmy Jacobs. Unfortuanately, both died as a young Mike Tyson became heavyweight champion. After that, having lost his father figures and positive influence, he was charmed and exploited by Don King (as many other fighters have been). And, it has been all down hill since.

So, he pissed away a fortune that most of us can only dream about. He was very gifted and that is how he achieved the fortune. Most of us, including me, are not very gifted and therefore will never achieve any fortune. But, he is mentally and emotionally not well.

Why kick someone when they are down? Would you prefer to be without special gifts that provide a fortune but end up as Tyson or be a "normal" person.

Personally, while I am appalled by what Tyson has become, I am not envious, I feel sorry for him.

Dentsun4228 wrote:

Aldo Pravisani wrote:

Dentsun4228 wrote: ....The man has one of the highest profiles in America......Tyson is a beloved icon in many quarters and will never have to disgrace........

So does Jeffrey Dahmer and also Ted Bundy.....He disgraced himself long, long ago. He probably does not have to do it again.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you're talking about the Holyfield bite fight. ... Most people are smart enough to know that and look past imperfections in others...bottomline is: Tyson was an amazing fighter in his prime and one of the most celebrated athletes ever. People remember that more than the flaws.

There's more than the bite for which Tyson has disgraced himself Dentsun. One does not end in gaol for biting an opponent in the ring...

Decagon wrote:Wasn't Tyson deported from England?

No.