Antonio "Kid Pambele" Cervantes

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 02 Sep 2006, 11:05

Very good champion. His title-loss to fellow-HOFer Wilfred Benitez had something of a hometown decision, and Benitez never granted him a rematch.

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 02 Sep 2006, 14:15

It wasn't a hometown decision at all.

Benitez beat him by at least 4-5 points and should have been given the UD.

I agree cervantes was an excellent fighter though.He reminds me of Monzon in terms of style.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 02 Sep 2006, 22:02

You could argue he was a shade past his prime by the Benitez fight though he went on for many years in top form. I imagine he took the 17 year old far too lightly before being handed that split decision loss. But Benitez was truly a superbly gifted fighter who quickly moved up in weight.

Cervantes was certainly well past his prime by the time Pryor safely signed to fight him, Pryor timed the signature on that contract very well. Aaron would have no chance of accomplishing a win over Antonio in a prime for prime event.

It took him more than one try to rest the title from the great Nic Loche and then went on to have quite a distinguished career as Light Welter.

And your right about Benitez not wishing to mix it up again with Antonio...so much so that he moved away from the WBA sphere of influence toward the WBC orbit.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 05 Sep 2006, 20:57

I can tell when Buzz is gearing up for an Aaron Pryor debate.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 05 Sep 2006, 22:42

Your right Kick.
However nobody has stepped up to take him on in that Pryor debate.
He made that post hours ago and we are all sitting on our hands.
Could it be that he has convinced us?

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 06 Sep 2006, 09:11

I don't know, maybe he has but I don't know how many would admit to this. I know that Boxbuzz is capable of going the distance in such a debate. He turns it into a war of attrition.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 06 Sep 2006, 09:13

Buzz might have good stamina and a good chin.
Boxrecs version of Battling Nelson.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 06 Sep 2006, 09:20

I think he is coming up to round twenty in this debate.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 06 Sep 2006, 09:22

Buzz and Jaclem are something of a tag team when it comes to Aaron Pryor. It's best just to lie low...

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 06 Sep 2006, 11:43

I don't know how much you have to worry about Jaclem, I believe he swore off of any further Pryor debates. But you never know just like many a fighter he has been known to make a comeback or two.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Sep 2006, 18:29

Was there some confusion here? This thread was about one of the elite class of jr welter's. Antonio Cervantes....don't let the subject matter deteriorate.

scartissue · Post by **scartissue** » 06 Sep 2006, 20:53

B-Buzz, I happen to be on your side. I think Cervantes was the greatest 140 lber of all time and yes, I believe he took the 17 year old very lightly. Benitez backed out of a rematch and the WBA stripped him. It is a myth that he outgrew the division thus no rematch, because he went on defending some NY version of the title against Ray Chavez after Cervantes had regained the WBA title. No doubt in my mind Cervantes would have taken Benitez in the rematch.

Scartissue

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 06 Sep 2006, 21:31

Just an attempt to read between the lines Buzz.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Sep 2006, 23:13

kick asner wrote:Just an attempt to read between the lines Buzz.

You were dead on the money, but I took a few deep breaths and found the reserve and poise not to go there. I think I showed well disciplined restraint that no one thought I had.

It's my many years as a Zen Budhist Monk that has given me patience in these matters.

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 07 Sep 2006, 08:22

Cervantes may have taken Benitez lightly, but he had 15 rounds to wise up that he was in with a formidable challenger.

He just couldn't do a damn thing with Benitez though.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Sep 2006, 08:33

Arbachakov wrote:Cervantes may have taken Benitez lightly, but he had 15 rounds to wise up that he was in with a formidable challenger.

He just couldn't do a damn thing with Benitez though.

Too right, Arbachakov, and no amount of revisionism on here will change that for anyone who has seen the fight. Benitez was a revelation. Cervantes was a good champ but he lost the title to a better fighter. Amazing to think Benitez was only 17 too.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Sep 2006, 10:13

Benitez was just too fast for Cervantes... Wilfredo was a genius at that point... he also had just the style to beat Cervantes... who was rather brilliant in his own right... their fight is one of the best pure boxing matches I've seen!...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 07 Sep 2006, 13:06

and he was so sure of that fact, that at 17 that he decided he didn't need to beat that old man again? so he offers no rematch?.......Doesn't QUITE add up does it.....

If he was confident seems he would want to do that again.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Sep 2006, 13:31

BoxBuzz wrote:and he was so sure of that fact, that at 17 that he decided he didn't need to beat that old man again? so he offers no rematch?.......Doesn't QUITE add up does it.....

If he was confident seems he would want to do that again.

But he was struggling at the weight and moved up... I could see your point if he stayed at 140 but still avoided Cervantes, but he moved up to 147 and so its hardly like he took the easy option.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Sep 2006, 13:34

I've always been a bit concerned about why Duran didnt give Buchanan a rematch and why indeed it took him a year to give Dejesus a rematch after their first fight... I think you can find these sorts of things in most great fighters records...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 07 Sep 2006, 19:50

If Benitez really struggled to make weight your point is well made. However everyone knows the honor of giving a beaten champ a shot, when it was he that gave you your chance.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Sep 2006, 23:04

BoxBuzz wrote:If Benitez really struggled to make weight your point is well made. However everyone knows the honor of giving a beaten champ a shot, when it was he that gave you your chance.

There's some truth in what you say but it doesn't always work out that way. Benitez had convincingly beaten Cervantes and had other fish to fry. If he'd made say 10 defences of the 140 title and not fought Cervantes again your case would be a lot stronger but that didn't happen.

Anyway I don't recall any great clamour for Benitez to meet Cervantes again. Why would there have been when he had already proven clearly who was the better man?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 Sep 2006, 06:56

Yes, Benitez seemed to win clearly... many of the greats didnt grant rematches... Leonard for example was allergic to them unless he had lost. I think his first fight with Hearns demanded a rematch, as did the Hagler fight... and Leonard vs Benitez 2 would have been interesting...
To be honest I think Cervantes was glad to see the back of Wilfredo, I dont think that he was overly eager for a rematch himself...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 08 Sep 2006, 07:01

I believe he asked for one and it was not granted.

Honor is what it is. It is not required in life so it is never a foul, you simply have it or you don't. If Benetiz could not make the weight, then it would have been up to Antonio to follow him up to the next weight which I can be fairly certain did not happen.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything here since I'm not sure of many of the facts other than Antonio wished for a rematch for that particular belt. He later pursued it and regained it as everyone here knows. I do know he would have pursued it no matter who had it and he would have prefferred it be from Wilfredo.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 08 Sep 2006, 07:16

Yeah a rematch would have been interesting, and Wilfredo defended the title 3 times I belive so you do wonder why one of those titmes wasnt against Cervantes...... certainly Cervantes was the hardest fight out there at 140...