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Posted: 05 Sep 2006, 22:26
by Expug
Kevin Costner built a ring in his cornfield and suddenly the two fighters walked out of the corn stalks.
'Build it and they will come" someone said...
Posted: 05 Sep 2006, 22:34
by HomicideHenry
Whoa...hold up...Marciano and Jackson fought in a "closed" match in Iowa in 1956?
Is this a joke?
If it is true, there's a bunch of questions to be asked:
1- Why isn't it written down in Marciano's record? He would be 50-0!
2- Why did no other Athletic Commission acknowledge this bout?
3- Even if the other commissions didn't count it, why would that hold back on Rocky's record?
4- If Nat Fleischer could do checks on Joe Louis and say that he had 26 title defenses against some 3-3-0 bum, and could check on Marciano to show that he never lost as a pro, why not have some boxing authority check into this match?
5- And most importantly...WHO THE HELL WON?
6- Why was it a "closed bout" ?
I have heard of the two men sparring once, and Marciano hit Jackson to the stomach so hard that "Hurricane" literally puked all over the canvas.
From that standpoint, I do think that if the two men had fought, it would stay in Jackson's mind of how hard Marciano could hit, and he would be back-peddling the whole time, until Marciano eventually chopped him up and knocked him out, pressing all the time.
Posted: 06 Sep 2006, 00:24
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Posted: 06 Sep 2006, 03:07
by HomicideHenry
Is this some kind of 'inside joke' ?
Posted: 06 Sep 2006, 03:26
by Woller
The first Floyd Patterson v. Hurricane Jackson, does to the best of my knowledge not exist in a full fight version. I have a copy showing long highlights of 7 of the 12 rounds, commentary by Rocky Marciano.
Søren Woller
[email protected]
Posted: 06 Sep 2006, 06:47
by BoxBuzz
Hey Irish.....The guys moniker says it all.....he's "in search of the lost fight". Looking for it under every nook and cranny....sort of a "where's waldo" of boxing.
Posted: 06 Sep 2006, 10:35
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
Woller wrote:The first Floyd Patterson v. Hurricane Jackson, does to the best of my knowledge not exist in a full fight version. I have a copy showing long highlights of 7 of the 12 rounds, commentary by Rocky Marciano.
Søren Woller
[email protected]
woller what does rocky say during the fight? any funny lines
Posted: 06 Sep 2006, 17:54
by HomicideHenry
The only way I could see where Marciano would have a 'lost' fight is if this happened:
If Marciano fought an exhibition match but the Athletic Comission had judges.
Technically speaking there is no such thing as a 'non-title' bout. If a champion faces off with someone, irregardless what their rank is, he would lose his title to that person if he lost. Remember when Holyfield faced late-sub Bert Cooper? Cooper almost beat Holyfield, though he wasn't a contender.
Exhibitions can be argued whether or not they are real bouts. The only difference really is that it ain't put on nobodies records.
Case in point, Joe Louis, before he defended his title against Billy Conn for the second time, was placed into an exhibition bout against a man named Johnny Davis who was 3-3-0. Under the NY Athletic Comission though, judges were placed at the contest, and the title was put up at stake.
This made Joe Louis furious, and he blew away Davis in 53 seconds of the first round. For several years rumors came about whether or not Joe Louis had 26 title defenses, rather than 25. Which, under at least the state of New York, it was a title match and is now recognised as a legit bout.
Another example is the career of the "Kentucky Rosebud" Walter Edgerton who had an 'exhibition' against the Lightweight champion of the world , and it was investigated, and Edgerton had the better of the bout, and had it been a legit bout Edgerton would have been the champion.
That's the only way I could see that Marciano would have had a 'lost' battle somewhere, is if some state made an exhibition into a real contest under their ruling.
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 00:05
by evndrbsn
IrishRufusMurphy wrote:The only way I could see where Marciano would have a 'lost' fight is if this happened:
If Marciano fought an exhibition match but the Athletic Comission had judges.
Technically speaking there is no such thing as a 'non-title' bout. If a champion faces off with someone, irregardless what their rank is, he would lose his title to that person if he lost. Remember when Holyfield faced late-sub Bert Cooper? Cooper almost beat Holyfield, though he wasn't a contender.
Exhibitions can be argued whether or not they are real bouts. The only difference really is that it ain't put on nobodies records.
Case in point, Joe Louis, before he defended his title against Billy Conn for the second time, was placed into an exhibition bout against a man named Johnny Davis who was 3-3-0. Under the NY Athletic Comission though, judges were placed at the contest, and the title was put up at stake.
This made Joe Louis furious, and he blew away Davis in 53 seconds of the first round. For several years rumors came about whether or not Joe Louis had 26 title defenses, rather than 25. Which, under at least the state of New York, it was a title match and is now recognised as a legit bout.
Another example is the career of the "Kentucky Rosebud" Walter Edgerton who had an 'exhibition' against the Lightweight champion of the world , and it was investigated, and Edgerton had the better of the bout, and had it been a legit bout Edgerton would have been the champion.
That's the only way I could see that Marciano would have had a 'lost' battle somewhere, is if some state made an exhibition into a real contest under their ruling.
First, Cooper did not almost beat Holyfield. Holyfield beat Cooper from pillar to post. Secondly, it was a SANCTIONED fight by the WBA and IBF, not an exhibition. I don't know what you are talking about by saying Cooper wasn't a contender. He was a contender. He was highly rated as a cruiserweight and he was ranked as a heavyweight by those two organizations.
If Holyfield fought an exhibition bout on November 23, 1991 and lost, he would not have lost his title. There is no reason to think so. There are only two instances in the heavyweight division where your statement has worked, and that was Dempsey-Darcy and Louis-Davis. In both of the fights, the champions knew that the title was at stake. Both fought many, many, many other exhibitions during the title reigns and their titles were not on the line.
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 01:39
by HomicideHenry
He almost knocked Holyfield out. Other than that it was pretty much a one-sided beating from Holyfield. He dropped Holyfield, and nobody gave Cooper a chance to come close to hurting Holyfield. He was a late sub, contender or not, because Holyfied was scheduled to face someone else.
And...it's true, there really is no such thing as a non-title fight in boxing. I am sure as hell, if there was an exhibition match between a champion and some pug and let's say the pug actually bested the champion, there would be huge publicity and people would clamor to see the 'uncrowned champion' and try and make a real bout of it.
re
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 04:30
by barry
There is no lost fight of Marciano!!! His record has been researched as thoroughly as any fighter in history by some of the best historians in the world and boxing coverage in the 50s would not have missed a "lost" Marciano bout, so it wouldn't take a top researcher to turn over rocks because all the rocks on Marciano have already been turned over, flipped, skipped around, juggled and tossed...there is nothing new to learn about Marciano's boxing career...most of all a professional loss, or a hidden 50th pro fight!
There was some clown that was on another site a couple of years ago who was trying to claim that Marciano lost as a pro. The guy was trying to claim that since Marciano had a pro fight that it didn't count when he went back to the amateurs, which is silly beyond anything I have ever read on a message board...and I have read some pretty silly shit. Hell, the clown still would not admit to being wrong after I served up a few news clippings reporting the amateur bouts, but at least he did shut up about trying to claim that Marciano lost as a pro! Ignorance has no bounds for some people!!!!
There is an interesting tid-bit on Tommy Jackson though...later on in his life he suddenly took on the persona of Bob Satterfield. He claimed that he was Bob Satterfield which a reporter believed until he started to really research Satterfield. The reporter went to Chicago where Satterfield's son still lives, which the whole ordeal made the family very upset that someone was pretending to be they're father. It was a bit strange as Jackson had a pretty solid career himself, so why he would choose to pretend to be Satterfield is beyond me, but he was probably suffering from Pugilistic dementia…among other things!!!
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 06:51
by silkov
Marcinao probably lost a few to his wife along the way I think... she was the real heavy hitter in the family I suspect!... 8)
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 11:40
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
There is an interesting tid-bit on Tommy Jackson though...later on in his life he suddenly took on the persona of Bob Satterfield. He claimed that he was Bob Satterfield which a reporter believed until he started to really research Satterfield. The reporter went to Chicago where Satterfield's son still lives, which the whole ordeal made the family very upset that someone was pretending to be they're father. It was a bit strange as Jackson had a pretty solid career himself, so why he would choose to pretend to be Satterfield is beyond me, but he was probably suffering from Pugilistic dementia…among other things!!!
barry i think ur confusing tommy jackson with tommy harrison. harrison was a fringe contender in the 1950s who was rocky marcianos sparring partner
re
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 12:16
by barry
Was it Harrison instead of Jackson? I knew it was one of the two, though I couldn't see why Jackson would want to pretend to be any other fighter as he had a pretty solid career...certainly as successful as Satterfield.
>>>Actually, that's an old argument. Before the issue was researched thoroughly, there was a question of whether or not he had a loss. It became an urban legend of sorts<<<
It has been researched very throughly since the middle 1980s that I know of, though I would wager a good sum that Marciano's career was very thoroughly researched before then. I know several top historians who have independantly researched Marciano..the kind of guys who if there were any "hidden" fights they would have dug it up. The argument that I am speaking of took place on some other forum...I don't recall which one though as I only have residence in this forum and the CBZ and I rarely ever drop in on any other forums...I don't think it was eastside, but I know it wasn't the CBZ, or this forum!
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 15:00
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
ybarry,
yea i just read the satterfield article on cyberboxing. it was tommy harrison who pretended.
Re: Iowa Boxing record Hurricane vs Rocky, say what now?
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 18:08
by Collins2000
Rocky50Project wrote:If true, this is the discovery of the life-time. Then I dont have to bother with Brazilian BS, but yea, Rocky had a fight in Brazil and I am trying to proove that... Anyways, thank you all for replying, you are all invited to join my Rocky project. I hope this is not a joke, if you have anything let me know, I will be glad to see it, some news clips something but if Hurricane did fight Rocky, then how come he never said a word after his 1960 premature retirement, did they suspend his license again?
Yea, Jackson vs Rocky in 1956, for June (read my pdf link) it was planned, but without Rocky's knowledge. Again, the official challenger for Rocky was Bob Baker but his performance against Nino Valdez was pathetic, so both fighters simply eliminated themselves, however if Baker pressed Marciano, as originally scheduled for January 1956, Rocky would have agreed to the fight@! Bad management on behalf of Baker's management.
Exactly what makes you think Marciano had a pro fight in Brazil of all places?
You've yet to produce even the slightest glimmer of evidence that your quest is any less ridiculous than me and silkov suddenly announcing we were hot on the trail of the fountain of youth in Tanna Tuva.
Re: Your trail of mountain of youth
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 18:39
by Collins2000
Rocky50Project wrote:OK, so you mean that city is in Ecuador, like spanish conquadores... I have evidence he had an exhibition one or two, it can qualify as pro definitely... the problem is, it was not sanctioned!
Well, let's see the 'evidence' of these exhibitions.
Until then no one is gonna take your rambling posts seriously.
Posted: 07 Sep 2006, 18:44
by BrocktonBlockbuster49
who were these exhibitions against?
Posted: 08 Sep 2006, 01:14
by evndrbsn
I think you mean Phil Collins.
