BoxRec

this is interesting to say the least.


Negro draws Color Line ( 1917)

Did you ever hear of a negro fighter
drawing the color line? Well, here Is.
one—Kid Norfolk by name—and he has
stirred up all kinds of ill feeling among the
colored scrappers because he will
not take on one whose complexion is A
few shades darker than a sunburn. This
Is what Bat Materson of the New York
Telegraph has to- say on the subject;

"A colored boxer by the name of
George Christian, who. Judging from the
tone of his letter. Is a professional mittwielder.
would like to know why Kid Norfolk draws
the color line against his own race while he
goes hunting around the country for matches
with white men only.George old boy if we new
we would tell you In a minute.If not sooner.

“I have been trying to get on a match with
Kid Norfolk for several months”, says George .
“but all I get out of him is “chase yourself I’m
not fightingniggers”. Can you beat that ! I am a
Negro all right enough, and an American one too”
writes George.

but if I was a Panama person I certainly would
deny it. The idea of that Panama coon drawing
the color line against a decent American black
man makes me feel like I would like to walk
on his monkey tail for just a few minutes.

“The promoter at Rochester wrote me” says George
“that he would gladly give me a match with Norfolk
but that the Panama tar said he didn’t want any of my
Game.”

George did get his wish and on 15th April 1918
He lost to Norfolk by a KO in the 3rd round.

Ol' George stretched the truth there as he was really born and raised in Canada.

Cap

yes i noted that also.it was the language used which drew my attention more than anything rather than whether it was true or not.

Yeah the language used during the day is pretty shocking and offensive to read today, but that's how it was written in those days and earlier...mostly it was white's who used the language, but Christian no doubt was trying to bait Norfolk into a bout...which Norfolk wiped the floor with Christian in 1918...not to mention the fact that Norfolk, in 1917 fought Sam McVey and Sam Langford and started out 1918 with Jack Thompson...hell of the ten fights Norfolk had in 1918, 8 were against colored opponents...all except George Ashe and Clay Turner...but Turner was Indian...Christian certainly spouted out some nonsense in that article and it really cost him not long after he wrote the article as Norfolk demonstrated that Christian should not even be in the same ring with Norfolk!!!

When I first started researching old newspapers I was very shocked at the language that was used pre-1920...one of the first that comes to mind was an article about the upcoming Johnson-Jeffries fight in which the newspaper reporter has given a list of predictions for the fight from prominent people…I recall “person” and “coon” was used a lot, but the one that most make me recall that article was Bob Fitzsimmons response, which was not meant in a derogative manner, but just in a common everyday kind of language, but Fitzsimmons’ response went along the lines of, “I’ll take Johnson…Jeffries was once great, but the person has too much on him now.”

See, not precisely derogatory toward blacks…it’s sounds like just common everyday talk, which is exactly what it was…that was the language which was used toward blacks, though in a lot of cases statements were made which were nothing but pure racist meant to really hurt people. The manner in which black people were treated, well, it’s a sad part of American history!

hello barry. Yes the valid point you make very well is that whilst it is offensive today it was common language for that era and the Johnson aspect is quite well known.

Like yourself I read a lot of the old papers and the frequency with which you come across articles using this sort of language is amazing.and clearly Christian had an agenda going which in a sense paid off but not in the way he liked at the end.

Its worth ppointing out that such language was not restricted to the American press by any means and not just confined to black peolple. mexicans were referred to on one I read as "a slick haired wop". Others which I think will come as a bit of a surprise to people is the frequent comment that the guy was "A Hebrew" or Jewish . The writers - or maybe the owners - felt this should be stated and one could read into that many a thing .

i recently came acroos an article which concerns my Dad who was due to fight a guy but prevented as the guy was black.I will post the details later as i was hoping to get some help regards this. This relates to Canada in the 1920's.

Rob---Are you familiar with the Alberta, Canada Historic newspaper site? If not then you are in for a treat as they have a ton of old Canadian newspapers from some time in the 1800s up through the 1950s and probably highly.

The only thing that I dislike about the site is that the images are in jpeg, or something like that in which a search engine is completely useless. You have to go through the papers page by page, which if you have anything less than DSL, or some other fast internet hook-up then it can be a nightmare, or at least it was for me back when I had to access the net through 56k telephone line. Anyway...the link is below:


http://www.ourfutureourpast.ca/newspapr/

cheers barry I have not tried that one and will have a look asap, sounds very good mate much appreciated. may help me solve a little puzzle ...again about my dad....if you are looking down dad I must say you left a real puzzle for me pops. anyway back to the first one eh

this is the article a mentioned

I would like to find out when this ruling was changed if possible.my dad must have gone nuts about this. one it was wrong and two he would have wanted/needed the money.he was saving up to get married in September, which he did in toronto - have the photo published in the paper which is nice.

Article dated 19 August 1924

War Veterans protest Fight Color Line

A recent ruling by the Ontario Athletic commission which prevents white and Negro boxers from being matched and which caused local promoters to call of a bout between Fred Snell, Toronto light heavyweight and Denis Critchelow, Ottowa Negro has evoked a protest from the local branch of the great war veterans association on behalf of Critchelow, who is a former service man.

In a telegram today to J P Fitzgerald general secretary of the Ontario commission F C Foster president of the local war veterans protested against the ruling pointing out that Critchelow had a good war record and a clean sporting record.”There is no color line for active service and there should be none in sport” the telegram said.

If you do not find anything from the Alberta Newspaper Archive then Kevin Smith might have some knowledge about it!

As to the Alberta Website...I’m certain that you will find it to be really helpful for boxing articles in general.

I started putting together an article for an upcoming IBRO Journal back last year about boxing and the internet and I was listing the links to all sorts of boxing sites, historical research sites, historical societies, newspaper sites, old newspaper sites, places to locate old newspapers on microfilm, etc., ect. I compiled just a huge list of web sites which pertained to boxing and just research in general and was in the process of writing descriptions about each website when I just put the project on the shelf. I really should start back up with it and not stop until I complete it as I know that it will be a very good source for boxing researchers!

just looking at that site and as you say not the best setup but a lot of material available but takes a while eh. thanks again and hope to dig up some info.

I was quite shocked when reading my Battling Nelson biography, when he describes his fights with coloured fighters its as if he is describing fighting another race altogether... I guess it was just the way of things at the time... I've noticed even in 50s boxing mags the term negro being used... makes me admire the coloured fighters of the time who had to face such prejudice as well as their opponents in the ring... I think Jack Johnson must have had phenominal courage and self belief to literally face down a whole nation like he did... he really was an early Ali...

silkov wrote:I was quite shocked when reading my Battling Nelson biography, when he describes his fights with coloured fighters its as if he is describing fighting another race altogether... I guess it was just the way of things at the time... I've noticed even in 50s boxing mags the term negro being used... makes me admire the coloured fighters of the time who had to face such prejudice as well as their opponents in the ring... I think Jack Johnson must have had phenominal courage and self belief to literally face down a whole nation like he did... he really was an early Ali...

hello there. It was far more common than most people would think but it does need to be taken in context to the norms of the day otherwise it can be misleading in my opinion. As you say the sort of description carried into the 50's but rather less in tone so to speak. The situations which some of them had must have been dire and the times they were ripped of was common place.

As for Johnson I have never managed to get my head round his attitude and behaviour to be honest and other people i think may feel the same. how he managed to avoid the KKK crowd is a constant amazement to me.talk about most wanted on their love list !!

wish they would put that documentary on UK Tv.

had a lovely debate with Klompy on this....always ready to concede a point...i miss him.

if you read this Klompton it is a little joke so calm yourself

Maybe those oldtimers were just more honest. A lot of people still think the same way on both sides of the colour line. In this country, the biggest metropolis is now 52% so-called visible minorities and immigration and birth-rates are such that it should eventually eliminate the whole racist problem as we all know that only white anglo males are racists.

I remember my grandpa talking about the local "coon". There was only one in the small village and he was dirt poor. Based on the only information they had, folks there figured all dark-skinned people were the same, just like all "Dagos", "Micks", "Wogs", "Chinks", "Kikes", etc were the same. It's ignorance and a certain primitive tribalism. Hell, even Catholics and Protestants couldn't be buried together. If all the whites and blacks vanished from the earth, Asian people would find something wrong with each other. People are stupid that way.

sadly i believe what you say is spot on and far more realistic than what the media and politicians would like us to believe. the fav phrase in the UK in recent times is we live in a multi cultural society - they do not add " where people hate the sight of each other"


my son had the dubious pleasure of serving in the current war in Iraq and the level of pure hate sickened him

tragic

Cap wrote:Ol' George stretched the truth there as he was really born and raised in Canada.

Cap

George Christian was born and died in Ohio. He was not Canadian.

Do you have his birth certificate or any other document that would prove this? I have seen him referred to in old Montreal papers as Canadian. Regardless of what anyone else says to the contrary, I will think of him as a fellow Canuck.

Cap

Cap wrote:Do you have his birth certificate or any other document that would prove this? I have seen him referred to in old Montreal papers as Canadian. Regardless of what anyone else says to the contrary, I will think of him as a fellow Canuck.

Cap

Actually I do, several, including census records, ship's logs and his death record. What do you have that states he was Canadian? I have several newspaper reports that claim he was from California, Utah, Massachusetts, Ohio and so forth. I am not sure why it is such a big deal. The guy wasn't Canadian--so what?

I actually mis-spoke. Christian was born in Kentucky and not Ohio. he only died in Ohio.

thanks Rowan. if you post the details on dob etc we can add them to the data base details. be nice to see that birth certificate on the wiki if possible.

Thanks very much for that Rob. My grandfather boxed an exhibition bout with George Christian some time in the 30s. Would be good to find out more about him.

RowanSmith wrote:

Cap wrote:Do you have his birth certificate or any other document that would prove this? I have seen him referred to in old Montreal papers as Canadian. Regardless of what anyone else says to the contrary, I will think of him as a fellow Canuck.

Cap

Actually I do, several, including census records, ship's logs and his death record. What do you have that states he was Canadian? I have several newspaper reports that claim he was from California, Utah, Massachusetts, Ohio and so forth. I am not sure why it is such a big deal. The guy wasn't Canadian--so what?

He was always referred to by the British press as an American, when he was fighting over here. Would love to hear anything else you can share with us on Christian. From what I can gather he fought in the British rings in the 20s and was involved in boxing booth fighting in the 30s.

*Alex* wrote:Thanks very much for that Rob. My grandfather boxed an exhibition bout with George Christian some time in the 30s. Would be good to find out more about him.

hi mate. just sent you a short article about him which you may have. he got arrested but charges dropped. from the times newspaper. i will do another check but think that is the only one i found.