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The top 15 heavyweight champions of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 09:18
by silkov
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Larry Holmes
3. Jack Johnson
4. Joe Louis
5. George Foreman
6. Sonny Liston
7. Joe Frazier
8. Jim Jeffries
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Gene Tunney
11. Rocky Marcinao
12. Evander Holifield
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Lennox Lewis
15. Mike Tyson
...........................veiws anyone?... lets keep it clean, children maybe watching!...
8)
also add to my poll as to who is number one!...
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 09:20
by silkov
Re: The top 15 heavyweight champions of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 10:07
by pundit
Excellent list by Silky. Here is mine, extended to 30, and including people who didn't hold a world champion belt.
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Sonny Liston
7. Sam Langford (too often overlooked)
8. Joe Frazier
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Gene Tunney
11. Rocky Marciano
12. Jack Dempsey
13. Mike Tyson
14. Harry Wills (dito)
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Max Schmeling
17. Jersey Joe Walcott
18. Jim Jeffries
19. Evander Holyfield
20. Jack Sharkey
21. Floyd Patterson
22. Jim Corbett
23. Joe Jeanette
24. Peter Jackson
25. Ken Norton
26. Max Baer
27. Archie Moore
28. Sam McVea
29. Riddick Bowe
30. Jerry Quarry
Honorable mention: John L Sullivan
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 11:26
by pundit
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 11:34
by SteveO
Very good list Silkov. I would just shuffle it around a little bit.
1. Muhammad Ali (out on his own)
---------------------------------------
2. Jack Johnson
3. Joe Louis
4. Larry Holmes
5. George Foreman
6. Rocky Marciano (purely because he was never beaten as a pro)
7. Lennox Lewis
8. Mike Tyson (awesome in his early career)
9. Sonny Liston
10. Jack Dempsey
11. Joe Frazier
12. Jim Jeffries
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Gene Tunney
15. Evander Holyfield
Very difficult to equate John L. Sullivan, but definitely the best of the 'bare knucklers'.
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 11:49
by generic screen name
Joe Frazier #11?? Mike Tyson #8?? huh?!?
Re: The top 15 heavyweight champions of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 12:03
by Friedie
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Larry Holmes
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Jack Johnson
7. Joe Frazier
8. George Foreman
9. Jim Jeffries
10. Mike Tyson
11. John L. Sullivan
12. Max Schmeling
13. Evander Holyfield
14. Gene Tunney
15. Sonny Liston
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 12:03
by pundit
A little exercise in cosistency (only the most bltant blunders are singled out)
Decagon wrote:1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Joe Frazier 0-2 against by Foreman (#7)
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Evander Holyfield 0-2 against Lewis (#10)
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Jack Dempsey 0-2 against Tunney (#13)
12. Mike Tyson
13. Gene Tunney
14. Ezzard Charles
15. Jersey Joe Walcott
16. Jimmy Young Huahuahua
17. Jim Jeffries
18. Riddick Bowe twice beaten up by Golota (#?)
19. Max Schmelling
20. Jack Sharkey
21. Michael Spinks
22. Ken Norton
23. Floyd Patterson
24. Chris Byrd beaten up by Vlad (#?), a one-armed Vitali (#?), and Ikeabuchi (# 31)
25. Sam Langford behind Byrd... Jesus
26. Earnie Shavers Shavers LKO1 Quarry (#28)
27. Archie Moore
28. Jerry Quarry
29. Joe Jeannette 0-2-1 against Wills (#30)
30. Harry Wills
31. Max Baer
32. Ike Ibeabuchi huahuahuah
33. George Godfrey
34. Tim Witherspoon
35. Sam McVey
36. Hasim Rahman huahuahua
37. Jimmy Bivins
38. Roland LaStarza
39. Ingemar Johanssen
40. David Tua -- why not Fres Oquendo?
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 12:24
by yiddo14
In terms of achievement-
1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Holmes
4.Foreman
5.Marciano
6.Lewis
7.Frazier
8.Johnson
9.Tyson
10.Holyfield
If they were to fight each other prime vs prime....
1.Louis
2.Ali
3.Holmes
4.Lewis
5.Foreman
6.Johnson
7.Frazier
8.Marciano
9.Holyfield
10.Liston(Tyson don't make this because he gets beat prime for prime against any of the all time top 20 heavies)
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 12:44
by Friedie
Decagon wrote:1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Joe Frazier
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Jack Dempsey
12. Mike Tyson
13. Gene Tunney
14. Ezzard Charles
15. Jersey Joe Walcott
16. Jimmy Young
17. Jim Jeffries
18. Riddick Bowe
19. Max Schmelling
20. Jack Sharkey
21. Michael Spinks
22. Ken Norton
23. Floyd Patterson
24. Chris Byrd
25. Sam Langford
26. Earnie Shavers
27. Archie Moore
28. Jerry Quarry
29. Joe Jeannette
30. Harry Wills
31. Max Baer
32. Ike Ibeabuchi
33. George Godfrey
34. Tim Witherspoon
35. Sam McVey
36. Hasim Rahman
37. Jimmy Bivins
38. Roland LaStarza
39. Ingemar Johanssen
40. David Tua
I think Young Stribling belongs into the top 40.
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 13:06
by sockdolager
1 Joe Louis
2 Muhammed Ali
3 Jack Johnson
4 George Foreman
5 Larry Holmes
6 Rocky Marciano
7 Joe Fraizer
8 Lennox Lewis
9 Sonny Liston
10 Evander Holyfield
11 Ezzard Charles
12 Mike Tyson
13 Gene Tunney
14 Jack Dempsey
15 Sam Langford
16 Jersey Joe Walcott
17 Floyd Patterson
18 Harry Wills
19 Joe Jeanette
20 Max Schmeling
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 15:22
by JAHamilton77
Wasnt Jack Johnson criticized for not fighting other black fighters after he won the championship?
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 15:33
by JAHamilton77
pundit wrote:A little exercise in cosistency (only the most bltant blunders are singled out)
Decagon wrote:1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Larry Holmes
4. Jack Johnson
5. Joe Frazier 0-2 against by Foreman (#7)
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Evander Holyfield 0-2 against Lewis (#10)
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Jack Dempsey 0-2 against Tunney (#13)
12. Mike Tyson
13. Gene Tunney
14. Ezzard Charles
15. Jersey Joe Walcott
16. Jimmy Young Huahuahua
17. Jim Jeffries
18. Riddick Bowe twice beaten up by Golota (#?)
19. Max Schmelling
20. Jack Sharkey
21. Michael Spinks
22. Ken Norton
23. Floyd Patterson
24. Chris Byrd beaten up by Vlad (#?), a one-armed Vitali (#?), and Ikeabuchi (# 31)
25. Sam Langford behind Byrd... Jesus
26. Earnie Shavers Shavers LKO1 Quarry (#28)
27. Archie Moore
28. Jerry Quarry
29. Joe Jeannette 0-2-1 against Wills (#30)
30. Harry Wills
31. Max Baer
32. Ike Ibeabuchi huahuahuah
33. George Godfrey
34. Tim Witherspoon
35. Sam McVey
36. Hasim Rahman huahuahua
37. Jimmy Bivins
38. Roland LaStarza
39. Ingemar Johanssen
40. David Tua -- why not Fres Oquendo?
Alot of these guys were never champions unless you count things like NABF & USBA
David Tua, Ike Ibeabuchi, Roland LaStarza, Jerry Quarry, Earnie Shavers, maybe a few others.
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 16:02
by pundit
JAHamilton77 wrote:Wasnt Jack Johnson criticized for not fighting other black fighters after he won the championship?
Yes. Especially Sam Langford.
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 16:09
by pundit
Decagon wrote:Anyway, he lost to Jess Willard, so Willard is obviously a better fighter. Right, Pundit?
Yeah, much better.
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 16:13
by pundit
Decagon wrote:Do you really think that Tunney's better than Dempsey simply because he beat an aged version of the Mauler?
Not only but including.
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 17:41
by pundit
Decagon wrote:What else did he do at heavyweight? Beat Tom Heeney and Johnny Risko? That's nothing comapred to Dempsey's resume. Depsey'd been mostly inactive for five or six years when they fought and he was nowhere near his prime.
Risko, Heeney and Gibbons are at least as good as Dempsey's best opponents (plus, isn't it you who always points out that the fourth Greb fight was at heavy? Dempsey, in contrast, didn't give Greb a shot). Moreover, it also matters for my assessment what Tunney did at light-heavyweight. He had two half-careers at two different weight classes, it's the two half-careers together that make up the full Tunney.
Btw, what is the fuss about. You have Dempsey a couple of places ahead of Tunney, I have him a couple of ranks behind him. Both of us have both fighters between 10 and 13. So I can't see that we differ much here.
Where we do differ very much is with Chris Byrd as #24, e.g., ahead of a legend like Sam Langford -- Byrdie wouldn't make the top 100 on my list. More generally, I see a somewhat forced tendency in your ratings to get fighters of the 1990s and 2000s in there (as long as they are not called Klitschko). Apart from Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson and perhaps Bowe, I don't see anyone who would qualify.
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 18:13
by Flump
For what it's worth, my top 15:
1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Marciano
4.Holmes
5.Dempsey
6.Foreman
7.Johnson
8.Lewis
9.Jeffries
10.Holyfield
11.Frazier
12.Charles
13.Tunney
14.Tyson
15.Liston
Posted: 20 Sep 2006, 22:19
by HomicideHenry
According to my ATG HEAVYWEIGHT tournament the top three were Ali, Louis and Marciano [Ali and Marciano are yet to face off for the final bout]...but since alot of people said that was incorrect I been running tests on to see how accurate the computer is and is running thus far at a 75% success rate.
Posted: 21 Sep 2006, 02:21
by Dentsun4228
I like how the ballot didn't include Tyson...only Holmes, Ali and Louis? Cracks me up!....Prime Tyson is the greatest HW ever. Here's my list.
1- Tyson (incredible KO machine in his prime)
2- Ali (My idol, but could he have beaten a prime Tyson?)
3- Holmes (Truly great champ, had all the tools)
4- Foreman (in his prime including KO's of Frazier and Norton, one of the most awesome fighters ever)
5- Louis ( far ahead of his time
Posted: 21 Sep 2006, 05:05
by Ezzard
My 4 tiers of HWs - sorry but it's so hard to rank them all that I'd never finish.
no order within the tiers themselves
Tier 1
Ali
Johnson
Louis
Holmes
Tier 2
Dempsey
Frazier
Liston
Foreman
Holyfield
Lewis
Marciano
Jeffries
Tier 3
Charles
Walcott
Jeanette
Langford
Wills
Norton
Schmeling
Sharkey
Tyson
Bowe
Jackson
Corbett
Tunney
Tier 4
Patterson
Spinks
Baer
Witherspoon
Shavers
Weaver
Quarry
La Starza
Moore
Young
McVey
Johnannsson
Fulton
Ellis
Posted: 21 Sep 2006, 06:19
by sockdolager
Dentsun4228 wrote:I like how the ballot didn't include Tyson...only Holmes, Ali and Louis? Cracks me up!....Prime Tyson is the greatest HW ever. Here's my list.
1- Tyson (incredible KO machine in his prime)
2- Ali (My idol, but could he have beaten a prime Tyson?)ahhh yes.
3- Holmes (Truly great champ, had all the tools)
4- Foreman (in his prime including KO's of Frazier and Norton, one of the most awesome fighters ever)
5- Louis ( far ahead of his time
you need to do some reading on here and afterward I believe you will find Tyson is not top 5 material.
Posted: 21 Sep 2006, 06:41
by silkov
Dentsun4228 wrote:I like how the ballot didn't include Tyson...only Holmes, Ali and Louis? Cracks me up!....Prime Tyson is the greatest HW ever. Here's my list.
1- Tyson (incredible KO machine in his prime)
2- Ali (My idol, but could he have beaten a prime Tyson?)
3- Holmes (Truly great champ, had all the tools)
4- Foreman (in his prime including KO's of Frazier and Norton, one of the most awesome fighters ever)
5- Louis ( far ahead of his time
How anyone can rate munchy Mike the best HW ever cracks me up to be honest!... says more about the media machine than it does about boxing!.... Tyson was an overhyped technically limited, mentally flawed bully!...
Posted: 21 Sep 2006, 06:46
by wouter
Ezzard wrote:
Tier 3
Charles
Walcott
Jeanette
Langford
Wills
Norton
Schmeling
Sharkey
Tyson
Bowe
Jackson
Corbett
Tunney
What the **** is Bowe doing in that group? Apart from going 2-1 with Holyfield, he never fought anyone. He has the most overrated career of any fighter I know.
Posted: 21 Sep 2006, 06:51
by Ezzard
wouter wrote:Ezzard wrote:
Tier 3
Charles
Walcott
Jeanette
Langford
Wills
Norton
Schmeling
Sharkey
Tyson
Bowe
Jackson
Corbett
Tunney
What the **** is Bowe doing in that group? Apart from going 2-1 with Holyfield, he never fought anyone. He has the most overrated career of any fighter I know.
Well oddly I share your skepticism. I rate him beause his A game was formidable: a solid chin, great jab, good outsdie and inside, had the heart to soak it up and come back for more. I agree on his lack of quality opposition. Maybe I'm blinded a but by him being a skilled BIG HW. If I had to put them in order I'd have him close to the bottom of that group.
