BoxRec

Rocky Marcianos wins @ heavyweight


Archie Moore
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles 2x
Jersey Joe Walcott 2x
Roland Lastarza 2x
Rex Layne
Harry Kid Mathews
Don Cockell
Carmine Vingo



Gene Tunneys wins @ heavyweight

jack dempsey 2x
harry greb
tommy gibbons
charley weinhart
johnny risko
Erminio Spalla


*tunney only beat greb once, when tunney weighed over 175lb






i would say the clear choice is rocky marciano

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:Rocky Marcianos wins @ heavyweight


Archie Moore
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles 2x
Jersey Joe Walcott 2x
Roland Lastarza 2x
Rex Layne
Harry Kid Mathews
Don Cockell
Carmine Vingo



Gene Tunneys wins @ heavyweight

jack dempsey 2x
harry greb
tommy gibbons
charley weinhart
johnny risko
Erminio Spalla


*tunney only beat greb once, when tunney weighed over 175lb






i would say the clear choice is rocky marciano

Carmine Vingo tilts the balance in favor of Marciano.

The Rock.

Well when Tunney fought Greb for the 5th time, Tunney was a HW and I think Greb was only 167 pounds and was showing some signs of deterioration...so I consider it not really a HW match, considering the huge weight differential.

Risko was only 16-8 when he fought Tunney I think, so it was a mismatch in ways, the still green Risko versus the veteran Tunney.

And of course Dempsey was inactive for 3yrs and with no real tune up fights but exhibitions, and being well into his 30's [the age in which swarmers start to go downhill] he was passed his best.

I go with Rocky, because he had a late start and over came crudeness and short stature and size [68" reach ffs] he still managed to beat more qualified fighters with greater skills than he ever ammassed in his entire career. Plus the fact all the fighters listed could have beaten the majority of the opponents listed for Tunney, including Dempsey, with possibly the exception of Cockell and Vingo and Layne.

shouldn't George Carpentier be on Tunneys record, any way i would still give the edge to Marciano.

Marciano for sure. Tunney's heavyweight career was fairly brief, and the Fifties' heavies were generally superior to the Twenties' IMO.

I would give the edge to Rocky as well, although in a head to head Tunney would have given the Rock a very tough fight. In fact, with his quickness and movement, Tunney would have been a very difficult opponent for just about anybody.

Marciano.

Thunder and Lightning wrote:shouldn't George Carpentier be on Tunneys record, any way i would still give the edge to Marciano.

Agreed, and where is Loughran? Tunney beat him too. Much of the choice depends on how you view the Tunney vs Dempsey fights. Clealry Dempsey was better than anyone Marciano fought. In fact Demspey was younger for, Moore and Walcott by a wide margin.

It's a close call. I'd lean towards Marciano.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote: And of course Dempsey was inactive for 3yrs and with no real tune up fights but exhibitions, and being well into his 30's [the age in which swarmers start to go downhill] he was passed his best.

Yes, Dempsey was past his prime and had been inactive for nearly 3 years prior to the first Tunney fight, but Dempsey was able to KO Jack Sharkey prior to the rematch, so was much better prepared. That’s probably why he was able to KD Tunney, although he was pretty much outclassed the rest of the fight.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Well when Tunney fought Greb for the 5th time, Tunney was a HW and I think Greb was only 167 pounds and was showing some signs of deterioration...so I consider it not really a HW match, considering the huge weight differential.

You guys have to take a decision. Decagon insists that 5th Greb fight (the one were Tunney beat Greb up) doesn't count for Tunney's LHW career because Tunney came in a few pounds above 175. Now you tell me it doesn't count for Tunney's HW career because Greb was too small (incidenlty the same Greb who Dempsey refused to give a shot at the HW title after Greb domianted him in sparring).

In my view, the separation of Tunney's career into a LHW and HW bit is anyway articifical. Tunney accomplished great things at both weight classes, but you'll be able to appreciate his career properly only if you look at all his deeds. No matter whether he weighted in at 175 or at 185 pounds.

I grant you though that the fighters on Marciano's list of HW victims looks more impressive. It's just not a terribly well-phrased question, as it shuts out half of Tunney's accomplishments.

Decagon wrote:Jack Sharkey won almost every round against Dempsey, who won on a foul.

Hmmm, you sound like a klitchko fan.

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:Jack Sharkey won almost every round against Dempsey, who won on a foul.

Hmmm, you sound like a klitchko fan.

Decagon wrote:Byrd and Lewis didn't beat Bitschko on fouls, you know. I'm just saying that Jack Dempsey's win over Jack Sharkey wasn't too much to get excited about. It would be like saying, "Wladimir Klitschko beat Chris Byrd, who'd just knocked out Vitali Klitschko." Byrd won fair-and-square, while Dempsey didn't. Neither win is something that you'd write home about, but they do belong on each man's record.

A foul? I’ve seen this fight several times and Dempsey KOd Sharkey with a left hook to the jaw, which I think was a legal punch even back then. Didn’t really even look like that great of a punch actually, but I guess it was enough to put Sharkey to sleep.

Decagon wrote:You need to watch that fight again.

You mean Sharkey didn’t get KO’d by a left hook to the jaw!!?? Are you saying that the footage I’ve seen of this fight have been altered!!! Or are you saying that something else put Sharkey to sleep? We need to know the TRUTH!!

This could be a bigger scandal than the great Wlad Vaseline incident of a few years ago.

pound per pound wrote:

Thunder and Lightning wrote:shouldn't George Carpentier be on Tunneys record, any way i would still give the edge to Marciano.

Agreed, and where is Loughran? Tunney beat him too. Much of the choice depends on how you view the Tunney vs Dempsey fights. Clealry Dempsey was better than anyone Marciano fought. In fact Demspey was younger for, Moore and Walcott by a wide margin.

It's a close call. I'd lean towards Marciano.

tunney beat a 20 year old green tommy loughran in a controversial decision, this fight does not count as lightheavyweight since both men weighed under 175lb




i dont think the 1926-27 dempsey was better than anyone marciano fought, no way. dempsey was far past his prime and ring rusty.


i think jersey joe walcott would have knocked out the 1926-27 jack dempsey.



i think charles, walcott, moore would have all beat the 1927 jack dempsey

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
tunney beat a 20 year old green tommy loughran in a controversial decision, this fight does not count as lightheavyweight since both men weighed under 175lb

Wow, damn, I didn't know that light heavyweight back in the glory days was only a one pound swing! All fighters had to weigh in at 175. 174 and a half and you're screwed!

Tunney was 173 ... that isn't light heavyweight?

Decagon wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:You need to watch that fight again.

You mean Sharkey didn’t get KO’d by a left hook to the jaw!!?? Are you saying that the footage I’ve seen of this fight have been altered!!! Or are you saying that something else put Sharkey to sleep? We need to know the TRUTH!!

This could be a bigger scandal than the great Wlad Vaseline incident of a few years ago.

Yup. A low blow set up that shot. Acting stupid must come natural to you...

Sharkey turned to complain to the ref, his fault. Maybe he got hit low, so what. Almost every great fighter got whacked in the balls a few times. Wasn't Sharkey considered one of the dirtiest fighters of his time?

Plain and simple, Sharkey may or may not have been hit low, but he turned like an idiot to complain and the monster left hook *to the jaw* put him out. That is a clean KO. If Sharkey had been dropped from the low blow and not from turning to the ref and getting nailed with a shot to the head, there would be more controversy.

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:Jack Sharkey won almost every round against Dempsey, who won on a foul.

Hmmm, you sound like a klitchko fan.

From what I have read and seen I will have to agree with Decagon on this one.

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:Byrd and Lewis didn't beat Bitschko on fouls, you know. I'm just saying that Jack Dempsey's win over Jack Sharkey wasn't too much to get excited about. It would be like saying, "Wladimir Klitschko beat Chris Byrd, who'd just knocked out Vitali Klitschko." Byrd won fair-and-square, while Dempsey didn't. Neither win is something that you'd write home about, but they do belong on each man's record.

A foul? I’ve seen this fight several times and Dempsey KOd Sharkey with a left hook to the jaw, which I think was a legal punch even back then. Didn’t really even look like that great of a punch actually, but I guess it was enough to put Sharkey to sleep.

You're a master in faked naivety...

Dempsey committed serial fouls before that punch, and Sharkey was complaining to the ref, letting his guard down. This is when Dempsey saw his chance. Sharkey was unrivalled in his ability to give fights away he should have won. The same happened against Carnera 6 years later.

But of course I'm telling you nothing new.

KOJOE90 wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

Decagon wrote:Jack Sharkey won almost every round against Dempsey, who won on a foul.

Hmmm, you sound like a klitchko fan.

From what I have read and seen I will have to agree with Decagon on this one.

A hard one to swallow, but sometimes one has to....

Decagon wrote:Sharkey was pretty badly hurt by that low blow. Ever been hit down there by a puncher as formidable as Jack fucking Dempsey?

Sharkey was KOd by a left hook to the jaw, not a low blow. Quit yer Klitchin', errr... I mean bitchin'!!!

Decagon wrote:Those weren't heavyweight bouts. Can anyone give me newspaper reports of Tunney-Loughran? (Paging Barry.) I've heard that Loughran deserved the decision and that Tunney did, as well.

Ok than were does the line go because according to boxrec Carpentier was heavier when he faced Tunney than when he faced Dempsey and that was a heavyweight fight.

Decagon wrote:If both fighters are under 175, it's a light heavyweight bout, unless a heavyweight belt is on the line.

So what if one fighter starts the fight at 175.5 pounds and ends it at 174.5?

Heavyweight bout until round 6, light-heavyweight bout from round 7?

pundit that was probably the most ridiculous post u ever made.