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Sugar Ray Robinson vs Ray Leonard
Posted: 24 Sep 2006, 23:55
by TigerMoth
Wish we could see this with both fighters at their prime. Anyone think the smirk wouldn't have been taken off the pretenders face?
http://www.fightbeat.com/videos.php
and still... Sugar Ray Robinson
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 01:52
by Jaclem
...the real sugar ray beats the candy ass in any manner he wishes...one round kayo....a boxing exhibition with either a one-sided decision or a later kayo. in no way would it be among his harder fights.
in a way, the one round kayo would be something of a compliment. the sugarman sometimes did this if he had any worries at all about his opponent. he kayoed geaorge "sugar" costner twice...first round both times...because...1. he didn't like the presumption of costner using the name "sugar" and 2. costner was a good boxer with a hell of a punch.
so..the fans of the candy ass usurper could console themselves after the two minute battle by saying the real sugarman didn't want to take any chances.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 06:39
by BoxBuzz
I agree with Jaclem.....however this leaves the great mystery of how such an aspertame fighter was able to defeat a certain legend rumored by some to be the finest MW of all time........ oh never mind........you know what I'm getting at here.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 07:00
by sockdolager
At any weight...147, 160 or even 168 Sugar Ray Robinson takes Sucrose Ray Leonard to school.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 08:15
by DonCorleone
I would lean towards Sugar Ray. I have to question the implied tone of posters in this thread though. Was Leonard so bad?
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 08:48
by kick asner
I question the tone also. Espescially since the people who are talking Leonard down are some of the more reasonable thinking posters in this forum. I can understand favoring Ray Robinson, but Leonard was pretty good also.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 09:24
by Seamus
I'd probably pick Robinson by split decision, but a peak Leonard is capable of beating any fighter who ever lived.
Funny how many people get mad about Leonard calling himself Sugar Ray, which was a tribute to Robinson, but never say a single word about the Manassa Mauler taking the Nonpareil's first name, or Jersey Joe taking the Barbados Demon's full name.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 09:35
by sockdolager
what, you didn't think Sucrose Ray was funny?
Re: Sugar Ray Robinson vs Ray Leonard
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 10:46
by pundit
I can see SRL carve out a decision against almost any fighter. If can do this two weight classes above his own against Marvin Hagler, it's not absurd to ponder whether he could to the same against SRR. In any case, a very interesting matchup.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 10:49
by sockdolager
I think a fight with SRR would look similar to the first 12 rounds of the SRL Tommy Hearns fight only it stays the same through 15. I wont discredit Leonard, he can stay with anyone but I just think Robinson was too big and strong for Leonard.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 17:37
by elmersalsa
I would not be surprised if Leonard beats the original Sugar Ray. Hey, both were great fighters in their time. I pick Robinson to beat Leonard at 160 by late KO in a spectacular match. At 147, well, to me is a pick them. Leonard by decision or Robinson by decision. I cannot see the original beat the other by KO at 147. Leonard at 147 was a hell of a fighter.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 17:49
by pundit
elmersalsa wrote:I would not be surprised if Leonard beats the original Sugar Ray. Hey, both were great fighters in their time. I pick Robinson to beat Leonard at 160 by late KO in a spectacular match. At 147, well, to me is a pick them. Leonard by decision or Robinson by decision. I cannot see the original beat the other by KO at 147. Leonard at 147 was a hell of a fighter.
You're right, one should specify the weight class. 147 seems the natural choice to me.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 20:06
by Halfamill
How about at Light Heavyweight?
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 21:35
by sockdolager
elmersalsa wrote:I would not be surprised if Leonard beats the original Sugar Ray. Hey, both were great fighters in their time. I pick Robinson to beat Leonard at 160 by late KO in a spectacular match. At 147, well, to me is a pick them. Leonard by decision or Robinson by decision. I cannot see the original beat the other by KO at 147. Leonard at 147 was a hell of a fighter.
Id lean towards a closer fight at 160, Robinson was just about unbeatable at 147.
Posted: 25 Sep 2006, 23:16
by generic screen name
Robinson,KTFO,3
Posted: 26 Sep 2006, 02:35
by BoxingFan84
Compared to Sugar Ray Robinson all other fighters pale.
Posted: 26 Sep 2006, 05:07
by Ezzard
I feel that Robinson just achieved more and walked through fire a few more times than Leonard. The higher up the weights we go the more likely Robinson is to stop Leonard but at 147, in their primes, this is a closer fight.
The evidence all points to Robinson. Robinson was a better boxer and Leonard's equal in terms of god given talent.
Posted: 26 Sep 2006, 06:13
by silkov
Robinson was a cut above Leonard... he was a better Welter and Middle... Robinson would have been too good all round for the second Ray...
Posted: 27 Sep 2006, 14:04
by walshb
Leonard on his day would have possibly beat any Welter in history except Robinson, but it would be close. Robinson I think would win because he was busier, stronger and a little rougher. Equal speed, chins and stamina
Posted: 27 Sep 2006, 23:01
by Ambling Alp
Jaclem wrote:...the real sugar ray beats the candy ass in any manner he wishes...one round kayo....a boxing exhibition with either a one-sided decision or a later kayo. in no way would it be among his harder fights.
in a way, the one round kayo would be something of a compliment. the sugarman sometimes did this if he had any worries at all about his opponent. he kayoed geaorge "sugar" costner twice...first round both times...because...1. he didn't like the presumption of costner using the name "sugar" and 2. costner was a good boxer with a hell of a punch.
so..the fans of the candy ass usurper could console themselves after the two minute battle by saying the real sugarman didn't want to take any chances.
I just want to be sure about something. Is the the real Sugar Ray the guy who quit when he was 2 rounds away from winning the light heavyweight title?
Is the "candy ass" the guy who came back from a detached retina, moved up 2 weight classes and beat Marvin Hagler?
Posted: 28 Sep 2006, 00:54
by Jaclem
..indeed..the real sugar ray is the one who failed to complete his battle against joey maxim, who was allowed to come in at the legitimate light heavy poundage of 175, and who had fought as a heavyweight and light heavy during one of the great eras of the latter division, had 115 fights and was kayoed only once, (to a hard punching heavyweight) a loss he avenged three weeks later.
..and yes, the candy ass is the one who moved up one division (those silly half steps didn't exist in the past when the above mentioned sugar man and welters like kid gavilan, billy graham and others fought middleweights as a matter of course) is the one who both outsmarted and used his box office clout to lure the past-his-prime marvin hagler into a 12 rounder and won a decision that many disagree with...but win he did..and fairly ,where it counted most...to the judges.
thank you for asking.
Posted: 28 Sep 2006, 06:27
by silkov
Ambling Alp wrote:Jaclem wrote:...the real sugar ray beats the candy ass in any manner he wishes...one round kayo....a boxing exhibition with either a one-sided decision or a later kayo. in no way would it be among his harder fights.
in a way, the one round kayo would be something of a compliment. the sugarman sometimes did this if he had any worries at all about his opponent. he kayoed geaorge "sugar" costner twice...first round both times...because...1. he didn't like the presumption of costner using the name "sugar" and 2. costner was a good boxer with a hell of a punch.
so..the fans of the candy ass usurper could console themselves after the two minute battle by saying the real sugarman didn't want to take any chances.
He didnt quit, he was pulled out with heat exhastion!... would you prefer that he carried on and got himself killed???... there was no 'quit' in Robinson and he didnt make funny stipulations about weight etc like Leonard.... I'm convinced he made Hagler come in light against him, same as he did with Lalonde... light-heavy champ my arse!...
I just want to be sure about something. Is the the real Sugar Ray the guy who quit when he was 2 rounds away from winning the light heavyweight title?
Is the "candy ass" the guy who came back from a detached retina, moved up 2 weight classes and beat Marvin Hagler?
Posted: 28 Sep 2006, 07:51
by Ambling Alp
Obviously Robinson was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived and wasn't a "candy ass". However, you know damn well that if Leonard wouldn't have finished a fight like that he would be ripped for it constantly. With Robinson, you hardly even hear about it.
Leonard beat Benitez,Duran, Hearns and Hagler and people call him a "candy ass" and make excuses why he won. He was an all-time great and had a heart as big anyone.
Posted: 28 Sep 2006, 10:36
by silkov
Ambling Alp wrote:Obviously Robinson was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived and wasn't a "candy ass". However, you know damn well that if Leonard wouldn't have finished a fight like that he would be ripped for it constantly. With Robinson, you hardly even hear about it.
Leonard beat Benitez,Duran, Hearns and Hagler and people call him a "candy ass" and make excuses why he won. He was an all-time great and had a heart as big anyone.
The fact is after he came back Leonard used to make his opponents agree to all sorts of things and this has blotted his legacy... also Leonard never gave rematches, expect when it was in his interest. And against Duran he demanded a quick rematch knowing Duran would not have time to prepare 100%.
Regarding Robinson, how can you criticise the guy for collapsing with heat stroke???... have you even seen the Maxim fight???... or read about it???.... Robinson was delirious at the and couldnt possibly carry on and to say he 'quit' is just nonsense.... Robinson carried on fighting at the top level till he was 45 and the Maxim defeat was the only time he was stopped... unlike Leonard who ended his career being koed by a blown up Lightweight... in truth Robinson was in a different class to Leonard and their records bare this out...
Posted: 28 Sep 2006, 11:16
by Halfamill
If it was a 12 round fight, Robinson would of been Light Heavyweight champion of the world.