BoxRec

We had a long discussion on HWs so thought I'd have a go at MWs...

Please vote, but I'm after your top 15 list and/or comments

Apologies for the poll but apparently there are only so many options we are allowed to add. I had to remove Ryan, Flowers, Walker, Tiger, O'Dowd, Overlin, La Motta, Zale, Jones, Toney, etc...

Greb just pips Monzon for me... 3rd would be Robinson... but I think all three would exchange victories and defeats (and draws) had they fought eachother.... 4th Ketchel and 5th Hagler....

There were lots of great middleweight fighters, but Harry Greb gets my vote at 160.

What I'd give to have some footage of Greb fighting!!... how come he was never filmed??!...

barry wrote:There were lots of great middleweight fighters, but Harry Greb gets my vote at 160.

Same here. He is the middlweight who serially beat up light-heavyweights and had even the best heavywegihts scared and running, including the great Jack Dempsey who refused to give Greb a shot after recieving a beating in sparring. No other middleweight, not Robinson, not Hagler, not Monzon achieved that.

Btw, I would have added Mickey Walker to that list, even if someone else (Cedan or Burley, I guess) would have had to go.

Ezzard wrote:We had a long discussion on HWs so thought I'd have a go at MWs...

Please vote, but I'm after your top 15 list and/or comments

I don't see Gene Fullmer or Dick Tiger...What kind of list is that??

1. Greb
2. Robinson
3. Monzon
4. Hagler
5. Ketchel
6. Fitz
7. Walker
8. Flowers
9. Burley
10. Tiger
11. LaMotta
12. Hopkins
13. R Jones
14. T. Ryan
15. Zale

SandySadler wrote:

Ezzard wrote:We had a long discussion on HWs so thought I'd have a go at MWs...

Please vote, but I'm after your top 15 list and/or comments

I don't see Gene Fullmer or Dick Tiger...What kind of list is that??

I could only have 10 picks so it was very hard to leave people off, besides I'm more interested in your list. BUT, have to admit Fullmer wouldn't make my top 20.

The Great John L wrote:1. Greb
2. Robinson
3. Monzon
4. Hagler
5. Ketchel
6. Fitz
7. Walker
8. Flowers
9. Burley
10. Tiger
11. LaMotta
12. Hopkins
13. R Jones
14. T. Ryan
15. Zale

Did you miss Cerdan or is it that you don't rate him?

The Great John L wrote:1. Greb
2. Robinson
3. Monzon
4. Hagler
5. Ketchel
6. Fitz
7. Walker
8. Flowers
9. Burley
10. Tiger
11. LaMotta
12. Hopkins
13. R Jones
14. T. Ryan
15. Zale

Good list. I'd have Hagler above Monzon though.

Decagon wrote:1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Marin Hagler
5. Roy Jones
6. Lloyd Marshall
7. Mickey Walker
8. Bernard Hopkins
9. Marcel Cerdan
10. Jake LaMotta
11. Bob Fitzsimmons
12. Charley Burley
13. Tiger Flowers
14. Archie Moore
15. Billy Conn
16. Eddie Booker
17. Ezzard Charles
18. Stanley Ketchel
19. Sam Langford
20. James Toney
21. Emile Griffith
22. Tony Zale
23. Gene Fullmer
24. Jack Dempsey
25. Holman Williams
26. Joe Walcott
27. Sugar Ray Leonard
28. Young Joe Louis
29. Mike Gibbons
30. Carmen Basilio
31. Tommy Ryan
32. Paul Pender
33. Lazlo Papp
34. Tommy Hearns
35. Shorty Boy Hogue
36. Cerefino Garcia
37. Billy Papke
38. Nino Benvenuti
39. Joey Giardello
40. Rocky Graziano

No Overlin??? No Dick Tiger???

For what it's worth I think Benvenuti would beat Fullmer convincingly.

Ezzard wrote:

The Great John L wrote:1. Greb
2. Robinson
3. Monzon
4. Hagler
5. Ketchel
6. Fitz
7. Walker
8. Flowers
9. Burley
10. Tiger
11. LaMotta
12. Hopkins
13. R Jones
14. T. Ryan
15. Zale

Did you miss Cerdan or is it that you don't rate him?

He's actually 17th in my list. Where's your list Ez?

The Great John L wrote:

Ezzard wrote:

The Great John L wrote:1. Greb
2. Robinson
3. Monzon
4. Hagler
5. Ketchel
6. Fitz
7. Walker
8. Flowers
9. Burley
10. Tiger
11. LaMotta
12. Hopkins
13. R Jones
14. T. Ryan
15. Zale

Did you miss Cerdan or is it that you don't rate him?

He's actually 17th in my list. Where's your list Ez?

I tell you, I'm struggling... I've got all the guys I want to put in a top 15 but there's about 25 of them. There are a few others that I think I need to include or at least consider but I don't know enough about them. I'll try and make a stab at it soon.

Ezzard wrote:I tell you, I'm struggling... I've got all the guys I want to put in a top 15 but there's about 25 of them. There are a few others that I think I need to include or at least consider but I don't know enough about them. I'll try and make a stab at it soon.

I’ll let you in on a little secret. No one knows enough to rate all of these guys, but we do it anyway. Just give it your best and post your first effort.

I personally wouldn't rate SRL because of one fight at 160.

pundit wrote:I personally wouldn't rate SRL because of one fight at 160.

Me either, but to each his own. How about posting your list pundit?

The Great John L wrote:

pundit wrote:I personally wouldn't rate SRL because of one fight at 160.

Me either, but to each his own. How about posting your list pundit?

I'll try. I feel on shakier ground here though than with the heavies.

1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Bob Fitzsimmons
6. Mickey Walker
7. Roy Jones
8. Bernard Hopkins
9. Tiger Flowers
10. Stanley Ketchel
11. Lloyd Marshall
12. Jake LaMotta
13 Marcel Cerdan
14. Charley Burley
15. Tony Zale

I did not rate Moore, Conn, Charles, Langford and some other popular folks as middles. They did more at higher weightclasses. SRL is a welter in my book.

>>>including the great Jack Dempsey who refused to give Greb a shot after recieving a beating in sparring.<<<

That is just simply not true!!!!

As good as Greb was, Dempsey would have feasted on Greb and the myth about Greb giving Dempsey a beating in sparring is about as accuarte as the old myth about Willie Pep winning a round without throwing a punch...it's just simply not true!!!!

Ezzard wrote:

Decagon wrote:1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Marin Hagler
5. Roy Jones
6. Lloyd Marshall
7. Mickey Walker
8. Bernard Hopkins
9. Marcel Cerdan
10. Jake LaMotta
11. Bob Fitzsimmons
12. Charley Burley
13. Tiger Flowers
14. Archie Moore
15. Billy Conn
16. Eddie Booker
17. Ezzard Charles
18. Stanley Ketchel
19. Sam Langford
20. James Toney
21. Emile Griffith
22. Tony Zale
23. Gene Fullmer
24. Jack Dempsey
25. Holman Williams
26. Joe Walcott
27. Sugar Ray Leonard
28. Young Joe Louis
29. Mike Gibbons
30. Carmen Basilio
31. Tommy Ryan
32. Paul Pender
33. Lazlo Papp
34. Tommy Hearns
35. Shorty Boy Hogue
36. Cerefino Garcia
37. Billy Papke
38. Nino Benvenuti
39. Joey Giardello
40. Rocky Graziano

No Overlin??? No Dick Tiger???

For what it's worth I think Benvenuti would beat Fullmer convincingly.

you underate fullmer. he would roughed up benvenuti bad.

Decagon wrote:1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Marin Hagler
5. Roy Jones
6. Lloyd Marshall
7. Mickey Walker
8. Bernard Hopkins
9. Marcel Cerdan
10. Jake LaMotta
11. Bob Fitzsimmons
12. Charley Burley
13. Tiger Flowers
14. Archie Moore
15. Billy Conn
16. Eddie Booker
17. Ezzard Charles
18. Stanley Ketchel
19. Sam Langford
20. James Toney
21. Emile Griffith
22. Tony Zale
23. Gene Fullmer
24. Jack Dempsey
25. Holman Williams
26. Joe Walcott
27. Sugar Ray Leonard
28. Young Joe Louis
29. Mike Gibbons
30. Carmen Basilio
31. Tommy Ryan
32. Paul Pender
33. Lazlo Papp
34. Tommy Hearns
35. Shorty Boy Hogue
36. Cerefino Garcia
37. Billy Papke
38. Nino Benvenuti
39. Joey Giardello
40. Rocky Graziano

great list except.........wheres dick tiger?


and why the fornicate is joey giardello so low? hes easily top 20

barry wrote:>>>including the great Jack Dempsey who refused to give Greb a shot after recieving a beating in sparring.<<<

That is just simply not true!!!!

As good as Greb was, Dempsey would have feasted on Greb and the myth about Greb giving Dempsey a beating in sparring is about as accuarte as the old myth about Willie Pep winning a round without throwing a punch...it's just simply not true!!!!

funny how pundit keeps repeating it though.


dempsey TKO 4 greb

pundit wrote:

barry wrote:There were lots of great middleweight fighters, but Harry Greb gets my vote at 160.

Same here. He is the middlweight who serially beat up light-heavyweights and had even the best heavywegihts scared and running, including the great Jack Dempsey who refused to give Greb a shot after recieving a beating in sparring. No other middleweight, not Robinson, not Hagler, not Monzon achieved that.

Btw, I would have added Mickey Walker to that list, even if someone else (Cedan or Burley, I guess) would have had to go.

stop spreading false myths. greb never beat up dempsey in sparring

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

pundit wrote:

barry wrote:There were lots of great middleweight fighters, but Harry Greb gets my vote at 160.

Same here. He is the middlweight who serially beat up light-heavyweights and had even the best heavywegihts scared and running, including the great Jack Dempsey who refused to give Greb a shot after recieving a beating in sparring. No other middleweight, not Robinson, not Hagler, not Monzon achieved that.

Btw, I would have added Mickey Walker to that list, even if someone else (Cedan or Burley, I guess) would have had to go.

stop spreading false myths. greb never beat up dempsey in sparring

I read this at least a couple of times. They sparred before Dempsey's defense against Billy Miske. Greb roughed up Dempsey badly, who didn't know how to deal with Greb's speed, and Dempsey's coach stopped the session after 3 rounds.

To exclude a few of the top British boys from some of these lists is not at all 'accurate' history...Jack Dempsey and his thoughts on Greb and experience with the man is a good piont.

The same Jack Dempsey when he saw Jock McAvoy said "he is the greatest 'fighter' (not just MW) that has come from Britain in some 20 years!"

Well if Ol' Jack Dempsey (along with many, many others), can say this about Jock McAvoy then the only reason some of you aren't is cos you don't know the 'facts' about Jock McAvoy...and where there's Jock McAvoy there's Bert Gilroy!

and to be fair there is a couple more like Len Johnson and Len Harvey (if you rate him at MW), and Ginger Sadd & Jack Casey for example.

Top guns in any Era against ANY top Middleweights!