lawllb wrote:stujones wrote:
Forget the European title loss, Kelly won that fight big.
A loss is a loss, you can't forget it even if he was at the end of a dodgy decision. At the end of the day he technically lost. Whereas Alex Artur won the European title and has also defended it a couple of times, same goes for Haye and Nicky Cook has defended it a few times, they are all CURRENT holders of the belt. Furthermore Michael Hunter is the current European champion and has defended it a few times
How in the hell can you condone Damaen Kelly being ranked above those guys? Who has Damean Kelly ever beaten? Has he ever beaten anyone that hasn't lost a few times before they faced him? LMFAO :P
Even Esham Pickering has won the European title and defended it a couple of times, eventually losing a controversial decision. He's on a similar level to Damean Kelly if not slighlty above him. However that one can be argued both ways.
In addition, Howard Eastman was a dominant European champion and only lost when he stepped up in class, a bit like Kelly. Nevertheless he has never lost to someone like Keith Knox in his career. This ranking is also debatable when compared with Damaen Kelly, however you may be able to argue your case here.
Even Ted Bami is a European champ now, but Damean Kelly definitely deserves to be ranked above him given his past accomplishments as ex-european champ.
As an ex European champ, who never lost the title in the ring!
Kelly defended the European title on one occasion to a fighter who was a WORLD CHAMPION the year before. Also, Mahmutov, the guy he beat for the EBU title went on to regain the title and also very nearly won the world title a couple of years back.
Yes, Kelly lost in his world title bid - against the #1 (at the time) Flyweight in the world in Columbia. Okay, Eastman went to Joppy and Hopkins' back yard. But he also lost to Edison Miranda, who has just failed in a world title fight.
If you want to go back in history to pick on Kelly (mentioning the Knox loss - have you seen that fight). Then okay, Skelton two fights ago lost to a guy who got hammered at EBU level. So therefore, Skelton isn't even EBU class - no where near it, if you look at how Sam dealt with Danny.
Okay, so thats Kelly ahead of Skelton - cause at least Kelly did well losing an EBU title attempt.
Now Jamie Moore, well a few fights ago - he lost to Michael Jones, and a little before that he lost to Ossie Duran - who has struggles with fringe domestic contenders - Bradley Pryce and Colin McNeil. That is not the form of someone who is the best in their country, let alone the best in Europe.
So thats Kelly ahead of Moore, cause at least Kelly has beaten Booth (who proved himself #2 in the country by beating Robinson). There are still strong arguments for Moore to be behind Alexander (especially if you go through the Duran loses to Pryce, who loses to McDonagh cycle). There are also cases for Moore to be behind Duran cause he lost to him.
Okay whose next, Alex Arthur.... two words really Michael Gomez. The only time Kelly has not controvesially or on a technicality it was to a world champion. Michael Gomez 4 fights previous to Arthur lost to Kevin Lear and although exiting, never showed he could fight and win at EBU title level. 4 fights after Arthur, Gomez would lose again.
Although having Arthur above Kelly is acceptable.
David Haye... oh yeah he is European champion, beating a 35 year old chinny fighter who it was proven failed conclusively and consistently at world class. The two guys who Kelly BEAT in EBU title fights one was a former world champion, the other would come close at winning the title. We may lambast Maladrottu, cause Kelly made him look like a novice, but he is a long reigning EBU champion also.
Haye defences have been against people who shouldn't be fighting for the title. Haye also needs to beat Maccrinelli to prove himself as number 1 in the devision. Beats Maccrinelli then there is a case.
Froch... going quite nicely, doing well, the Magee win was good. Not an EBU champion and clearly not number #1 in the devision domestically, is he even number 2?. So far though there are only two decent wins on his resume. I repeat, Kelly beat a recently diposed world champion, has Froch done that yet? Is his wins over Barney and Magee much better than Booth and Napa?
Nicky Cook - well first off, he isn't the current EBU belt holder. Again doing okay, but who has HE really beaten. Your quick to criticise Kelly's opponents but Cook's EBU title defenses were not against a great callibre of opponent. Cyril Thomas is okay but was always strictly EBU level. Beyond Thomas, Dazzo Williams is about his best opponent. Again, I wouldn't argue with Cook being ahead - but I would like him to just prove himself a little more. Of course a win over Scott Harrison WILL do the trick.
Esham Pickering. Again I ask you to look at his resume and go - god thats a tasty win. He was brutal exposed early in his career (vs Jon Jo Irwin also) and his EBU title defensives were against guys with very padded records. One of his successful defenses was against a guy who is now 1-3 in his last 4 fights. He has also hasn't fought in 2006 yet.
Howard Eastman - Yes, arguable - just I don't like to see 0-3 and hasn't won over two years to be that high on the list. Big shout for the winner of Williams vs Eastman.
Enzo Mac - again who has he beaten to show he is even EBU title class. Surely Marcelo Dominguez has seen better days, and Mark Hobson has failed at a similar level before previously. Yes, I think he would be - but he hasn't shown it. Kelly has.
Michael Hunter - doing well, of course a win of Molitor would seal a place above Kelly. However, its a big step up. His best win is still clearly Esham Pickering and that was too close for him to be ranked alot above him.
I'm not saying I'm right to put Kelly above these, most of these responses are mearly responses to you "righting off" Kelly on the basis of the Keith Knox loss, practically 10 years ago and a technicality.
For me of the fighters mentioned in your two posts, you would be WRONG to put Skelton, Pickering, Moore, Maccrinelli, and Hunter (close though) above Kelly.
Arthur, Eastman, Cook, Haye, and Froch are open to debate, Arthur especially.
