BoxRec

Why?

Kessler has two mandatories that he has to fight @ the same time. Andrade won't step aside. Mundine seemed more accomodating.

In short, Kessler must fight Andrade, or lose the WBC title.

So why doesn't Calzaghe face Kessler's other mandatory, the super tricky Mundine?

Put 'em on the same fight card. Winner of one fight takes on the winner of the other. Mundine would give Calzaghe a hard fight, Andrade would do the same for Kessler.

Otherwise people are going to start getting stripped of their titles.

viciousmaussa wrote:Why?

Kessler has two mandatories that he has to fight @ the same time. Andrade won't step aside. Mundine seemed more accomodating.

In short, Kessler must fight Andrade, or lose the WBC title.

So why doesn't Calzaghe face Kessler's other mandatory, the super tricky Mundine?

Put 'em on the same fight card. Winner of one fight takes on the winner of the other. Mundine would give Calzaghe a hard fight, Andrade would do the same for Kessler.

Otherwise people are going to start getting stripped of their titles.

Boy you're dreaming.... Although admittedly these are sweet dreams.

Styles make fights, and the super-slick Mundine would be a style nightmare for Calzaghe. Robin Reid squared. Possibly worse than Kessler. Warren would never allow this. This would mean tons of risk for Joe but no return.

Btw, doesn't Joe have to fight a mandatory too at some point? The WBO doesn't know the concept, but the IBF does.

pundit wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:Why?

Kessler has two mandatories that he has to fight @ the same time. Andrade won't step aside. Mundine seemed more accomodating.

In short, Kessler must fight Andrade, or lose the WBC title.

So why doesn't Calzaghe face Kessler's other mandatory, the super tricky Mundine?

Put 'em on the same fight card. Winner of one fight takes on the winner of the other. Mundine would give Calzaghe a hard fight, Andrade would do the same for Kessler.

Otherwise people are going to start getting stripped of their titles.

Boy you're dreaming....

Styles make fights, and the super-slick Mundine would be a style nightmare for Calzaghe. Robin Reid squared. Possibly worse than Kessler. Warren would never allow this. This would mean tons of risk for Joe but no return.

Btw, doesn't Joe have to fight a mandatory too at some point? The WBO doesn't know the concept, but the IBF does.

Stieglitz has been his IBF mandatory since last March, Markussen was his WBO mandatory forever, now Tatevosyan is his mandatory. HBO won't approve these guys.

I think Calzaghe was given an extension till November to fight Stieglitz. Obviously the IBF are on Frank's puppet strings.

I agree, Mundine has a tougher style for Calzaghe than Kessler. Even though Kessler is better.

Calzaghe-Kessler WILL NEVER happen next February. Unless these guys start throwing some of their titles away.

viciousmaussa wrote:

pundit wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:Why?

Kessler has two mandatories that he has to fight @ the same time. Andrade won't step aside. Mundine seemed more accomodating.

In short, Kessler must fight Andrade, or lose the WBC title.

So why doesn't Calzaghe face Kessler's other mandatory, the super tricky Mundine?

Put 'em on the same fight card. Winner of one fight takes on the winner of the other. Mundine would give Calzaghe a hard fight, Andrade would do the same for Kessler.

Otherwise people are going to start getting stripped of their titles.

Boy you're dreaming....

Styles make fights, and the super-slick Mundine would be a style nightmare for Calzaghe. Robin Reid squared. Possibly worse than Kessler. Warren would never allow this. This would mean tons of risk for Joe but no return.

Btw, doesn't Joe have to fight a mandatory too at some point? The WBO doesn't know the concept, but the IBF does.

Stieglitz has been his IBF mandatory since last March, Markussen was his WBO mandatory forever, now Tatevosyan is his mandatory. HBO won't approve these guys.

I think Calzaghe was given an extension till November to fight Stieglitz. Obviously the IBF are on Frank's puppet strings.

I agree, Mundine has a tougher style for Calzaghe than Kessler. Even though Kessler is better.

Calzaghe-Kessler WILL NEVER happen next February. Unless these guys start throwing some of their titles away.

Steiglitz can't stay healthy, thus the reason Joe or Jeff hasn't been forced to fight him yet. A WBO mandatory is about as solid as a stick of warm butter no matter who it is, thus the beauty of Joe holding that belt for 8 years.

The IBF, in terms of making a Steiglitz fight, have been and can be bought to not enforce that mandatory in lieu of a bigger fight. Also, the IBF doesn't exactly adhere to their own rules, thus making them able to do whatever the hell they choose, usually best for them and not boxing.

Kessler handled Mundine after some teething pains early in the fight, and Kessler is a far worse matchup for Joe than Tony is. Tony is noted by most as the best opponent on Kessler resume, but asked if he's as good as some of Joe's, it's often laughed away. So, fighting Mundine makes no sense because it does nothing for Joe that isn't expected, and it's an avoidance of the biggest fight out there.

Mattyp151 wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:

pundit wrote: Boy you're dreaming....

Styles make fights, and the super-slick Mundine would be a style nightmare for Calzaghe. Robin Reid squared. Possibly worse than Kessler. Warren would never allow this. This would mean tons of risk for Joe but no return.

Btw, doesn't Joe have to fight a mandatory too at some point? The WBO doesn't know the concept, but the IBF does.

Stieglitz has been his IBF mandatory since last March, Markussen was his WBO mandatory forever, now Tatevosyan is his mandatory. HBO won't approve these guys.

I think Calzaghe was given an extension till November to fight Stieglitz. Obviously the IBF are on Frank's puppet strings.

I agree, Mundine has a tougher style for Calzaghe than Kessler. Even though Kessler is better.

Calzaghe-Kessler WILL NEVER happen next February. Unless these guys start throwing some of their titles away.

Steiglitz can't stay healthy, thus the reason Joe or Jeff hasn't been forced to fight him yet. A WBO mandatory is about as solid as a stick of warm butter no matter who it is, thus the beauty of Joe holding that belt for 8 years.

The IBF, in terms of making a Steiglitz fight, have been and can be bought to not enforce that mandatory in lieu of a bigger fight. Also, the IBF doesn't exactly adhere to their own rules, thus making them able to do whatever the hell they choose, usually best for them and not boxing.

Kessler handled Mundine after some teething pains early in the fight, and Kessler is a far worse matchup for Joe than Tony is. Tony is noted by most as the best opponent on Kessler resume, but asked if he's as good as some of Joe's, it's often laughed away. So, fighting Mundine makes no sense because it does nothing for Joe that isn't expected, and it's an avoidance of the biggest fight out there.

Actually, Mundine's attitude is quite strange. He's the WBA mandatory, but he says he doesn't mind waiting to fight the Calzaghe-Kessler winner, so he can have all 4 belts at once. It's Andrade that stands in the way. It's within his rights to have a shot at Kessler. As champion, it is Kessler's duty to fight him. I wouldn't complain about Kessler-Andrade. In fact, I'd get very excited.

Kessler had a very diffiuclt time with Mundine. I had it 7-4-1 Kessler. IMO those are the only 4 rounds Kessler has lost, that I'm aware of.

Unless GB want to develop Andrade a bit more. But he looks very dangerous as he is.

I'd personally wait until Andrade says something...it's not like he's breaking down barriers with his level of opposition, and I'm sure, like Mundine, would trade a crack at 1 or 2 belts for a crack at all 4.

Does a Calzaghe/Kessler fight really need 4 belts up for grabs?
Currently we have two recognised champions in the super mid division.Forget Mundine(maybe bring back the heavy hitting Ottke to KO him again?)and Andrade.These guys are not on the same level as the top 2.

Let Mundine/Andrade pick up the belts that are vacated.They will mean nothing.Everyone will know who the real champion at this weight is if Cal and Kess face off.

No way should these two(Mundine,Andrade)be allowed to stop the undoubted top 2 in the division from squaring off.

Mundine would pose all sorts of problems for Calzaghe. As i have said countless times before, regardless of what you think of him (he is a bit of a tool) Mundine has speed and skills and is one of the best Super Middles out there. He handed Danny Green a boxing lesson when they met.

Forget his KO loss to Ottke, Mundine is right up there and deserves his title shot at whoever it may be.

steve689 wrote:Mundine would pose all sorts of problems for Calzaghe. As i have said countless times before, regardless of what you think of him (he is a bit of a tool) Mundine has speed and skills and is one of the best Super Middles out there. He handed Danny Green a boxing lesson when they met.

Forget his KO loss to Ottke, Mundine is right up there and deserves his title shot at whoever it may be.

The thing is he got stupid against Ottke, and allowed himself to get overwhlemed. Inexperience is the reason he lost that fight to Sven. He had Ottke against the ropes late in the fight, and just lost composure. It's definitely his shoulda coulda woulda fight.

I don't know what the judges thought but i had Mundine coasting ahead (even with the 2 point headbutt deduction), he was making Ottke look slow and ponderous.

The KO loss and a knockdowns against Nishizawa and Siaca (he also hurt his ankle) leads people to highlight a chin problem. Could well be but remember he successfully negotiated 12 with Antwun Echols and Mikkel Kessler without so much as being rocked and Danny Green didn't hurt him either but that was mainly because Mundine left him punching air most of the time.

steve689 wrote:I don't know what the judges thought but i had Mundine coasting ahead (even with the 2 point headbutt deduction), he was making Ottke look slow and ponderous.

The KO loss and a knockdowns against Nishizawa and Siaca (he also hurt his ankle) leads people to highlight a chin problem. Could well be but remember he successfully negotiated 12 with Antwun Echols and Mikkel Kessler without so much as being rocked and Danny Green didn't hurt him either but that was mainly because Mundine left him punching air most of the time.

Mundine fought brilliantly against Ottke until round 8, outboxing the master-boxer. Thereafter Mundine ran out of gas and Ottke's experience won the fight. And don't forget -- this was near-prime Ottke, not the slow version of the Mitchell/Larsen/Reid fights.

In my book Mundine is #3 at super-middleweight and he has been so for some time. However, I can't see Mundine beat Kessler. Kessler has his number. A superb jab to keep Mundine at bay, a deadly and fast right that prevents Mundine from coming inside (as it did with Beyer last weekend), and sufficient footspeed and agility to find Mundine in the ring.

yiddo14 wrote:Does a Calzaghe/Kessler fight really need 4 belts up for grabs?
Currently we have two recognised champions in the super mid division.Forget Mundine(maybe bring back the heavy hitting Ottke to KO him again?)and Andrade.These guys are not on the same level as the top 2.

Let Mundine/Andrade pick up the belts that are vacated.They will mean nothing.Everyone will know who the real champion at this weight is if Cal and Kess face off.

No way should these two(Mundine,Andrade)be allowed to stop the undoubted top 2 in the division from squaring off.

Mundine & Andrade already took step aside, for KESSLER-BEYER to happen. Kessler could end up getting stripped. Promoters want one thing, sanctioners want something else, and HBO have their own ideas. If they all stick to their guns the belts will be fragmented.

Also, I don't like the idea of Andrade & Mundine not getting shots. They provide a compelling challenge. Mundine already proved this, by giving Mikkel 'Shutout' Kessler problems.

Pundit i think it was the fight with Byron Mitchell where we saw Ottke's cracks starting to show, his legs were buckled in that 12th round all right. But i still thought he was a fair winner.

I had Ottke winning by the skin of his teeth. Same case with Brewer (rematch) & Glen Johnson. I think from those three, Johnson was the more soundly beaten.

steve689 wrote:Pundit i think it was the fight with Byron Mitchell where we saw Ottke's cracks starting to show, his legs were buckled in that 12th round all right. But i still thought he was a fair winner.

Oh yes, the 2003 Ottke was beyond it.

viciousmaussa wrote:I had Ottke winning by the skin of his teeth. Same case with Brewer (rematch) & Glen Johnson. I think from those three, Johnson was the more soundly beaten.

Mitchell vs Ottke close? Sorry disagree big style with that. Mitchell vs Ottke I thought was by far the most clear cut of those three.

Yes i had Sven winning 117-111 or something similar if i remember correctly. Thought he was beaten by Mads Larsen though.

steve689 wrote:Yes i had Sven winning 117-111 or something similar if i remember correctly. Thought he was beaten by Mads Larsen though.

Agree on both accounts, Its only Larsen I thought beat Ottke during his reign.

Forget the one dimensional Andrade, he's beaten nobody.

Calzaghe Kessler needs to happen, whether it be 3 or 4 belts that are on the line is academic.

Would be good to get Calzaghe-Mudine on while the Ashes are on, a kind of UK v Oz slant to it.

Bit late now though, especially with JC's cut and hands....

Kessler will become the WBA Super Champion now won't he? Now he is a unified champion. Which means Mundine should get a shot at the WBA 'regular' title freeing up that mandatory commitment. So Calzaghe v Kessler could surely be made if they can get Andrade to step aside?

Andrade is promoted by De La Hoya so if Andrade bitched, then the WBC will kiss DLH's arse.

A few of you who are posting must have seen far more than I have from Mundine. In the fights I have seen he is completely orthodox and well-schooled, merely slow in doing it.

If I was training his opponet, I would say watch the front foot placement, place yours where the first jab should go, slip under and punch to the body.

However, I am a corporate lawyer; not a trainer - so what do I know?

Axe wrote:Forget the one dimensional Andrade, he's beaten nobody.

Calzaghe Kessler needs to happen, whether it be 3 or 4 belts that are on the line is academic.

I actually like Andrade. He looks slow but is quite sneaky. I love his stoppage of Alien Grant. He was getting nailed and looked bad, but then he took a clever pivot to the right and clocked ol' green head. There's something of Israel Vazquez or Margarito in him. He's slow but is better than he looks, IMO.

But Calzaghe-Kessler is just crucial. I mean, though Calzaghe's opposition has been uneven, just looking at his last three or four fights, he's shut everyone out. When he stays focused, he really can unsettle ppl being a southpaw. And Kessler, he maybe lost 4 rounds in his last four fights, all of which were against former/current titlists.

I can see a really tense, competitive tactical match happening. Kessler has shown there is more to him than just a jab, by stopping Beyer with a right. & Calzaghe is always best in a big event.

Calzaghe-Kessler is just so intriguing it hurts me to think it won't happen! I have said in many previous posts that Kessler will turn out to be the best SM of the bunch (Lacy & Beyer were both still on a roll at this point) so i am sticking to my guns. Kessler is a live, dangerous opponent who gets stronger as the fight goes on...i give him a genuine chance of victory.