BoxRec

It's on DHB, one of their pathetic "_____ disses _____"

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/chee/chee_1019f06.htm

Good, that narrows it down.

Taylor will be a super middle around the time that Calzaghe will be retiirng.

Winky only wants a catchweight.

Tito fight doesn't make sense.

Who does that leave...

I think this is great news. Not many wanted that fight anyway.

If the Kessler Calzaghe fight is not made now there will be a lot of angry fans.

Kessler is used to fighting for modest sums in world title sums so surely he will be realistic with his demands for this fight. If he wins he becomes a world name and a pound for pound Top5; and he has years left in him to earn the really big money.

So what obstacles are left Frank?

Step back.

He'll never beat a top 10 HW, his frames too small and he already had to bulk up for Light HW.

If the Kessler Calzaghe fight is not made now there will be a lot of angry fans.

Not casual ones.

Hopkins would be an underdog against Calzaghe as well.

Max Molyneux wrote:Step back.

He'll never beat a top 10 HW, his frames too small and he already had to bulk up for Light HW.

If the Kessler Calzaghe fight is not made now there will be a lot of angry fans.

Not casual ones.

Hopkins would be an underdog against Calzaghe as well.

If former middleweights Jones and Toney could, why do you think Hopkins can't?

Toney was a much naturally bigger man, Jones was a lot quicker. I don't see Old man river being able to take a heavyweight dig.

Question, is the title of this thread your's or DHB's?

Hopkins said Joe does not interest him in the direction he wants to go....whoever titled this thread makes it sound like Bernard is scared of Joe.

Whatever way you interpret the title of this thread, it is GREAT news.

I doubt there are any boxrec posters who do not want to see Calzaghe-Kessler next. It should and MUST happen. How can Calzaghe turn down the opportunity to be the first unified champ of this relatively new division. This fight has all the credibity, status and kudos that can only come when fighters put everthing on the line. It will give the sport some much needed integrity and create a lineal line for future SMWs in the future.

It is the only fight out there that will secure his legacy, regardless of what happens afterwards. Talk of fights with other guys is a distraction and should only be considered after the Calzaghe-Kessler argument is cleared up.

neverwin wrote:I think this is great news. Not many wanted that fight anyway.

If the Kessler Calzaghe fight is not made now there will be a lot of angry fans.

Kessler is used to fighting for modest sums in world title sums so surely he will be realistic with his demands for this fight. If he wins he becomes a world name and a pound for pound Top5; and he has years left in him to earn the really big money.

So what obstacles are left Frank?

Totally agree.

This is the fight that should be made. Ordinary punters in this country dont necessarily know Hopkins anybetter than they do Kessler... therefore it cant be argued by Team Calzaghe that turning down a fight with Kessler, in pursuit of one with Hopkins, is an attempt to give the public what they want.

And as Calzaghe has never given any regard to the US market, I dont think at this stage of his career he can justifiably rubbish a fight with Kessler on the basis that a win over Hopkins, rather than Kessler, would be much better regarded by the yanks.

Mattyp151 wrote:Question, is the title of this thread your's or DHB's?

Hopkins said Joe does not interest him in the direction he wants to go....whoever titled this thread makes it sound like Bernard is scared of Joe.

My thread. I am in no way affiliated with DHB. Title of the DHB piece is "Hopkins Disses calzaghe", which in reality he didn't.

Max Molyneux wrote:

If the Kessler Calzaghe fight is not made now there will be a lot of angry fans.

Not casual ones.

I think the arguement about the casual fans not knowing Kessler as a reason for not making the fight is now dead. How many of them wanted Calzaghe Bika? But didn't stop them making that fight. If nothing else they could sell it on the fact that it was for all the belts

Anyway if your talking the average ITV viewer I doubt many of them know who Hopkins is either.

Casual fans can fvck right off.

Casual fans are what companies like HBO rely on. Do you think Oscar DeLaHoya sold as those PPV's because of die hard boxing nutters?

You have to recognise that in terms of business, and that's what all sport now is, plain and simple, cable companies are more interested in names than compelling fights.

Whilst Corralles and Cassmayor are great fighters to watch, their PPV numbers were staggeringly low, I was shocked to hear they only did about 300,000, and look how exciting their first fight was!

viciousmaussa wrote:Casual fans can fvck right off.

Dickhead. Its the attracting of casual fans that would ensure boxing recieves main stream, first-class coverage. The reason why boxing is dying is because the man on the street aint interested in being ripped off by shite promoters, putting on crap fights.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Casual fans are what companies like HBO rely on. Do you think Oscar DeLaHoya sold as those PPV's because of die hard boxing nutters?

To be fair I dont think America TV companies and their considerations, are relevant to any topic of conversation regarding Joe Calzaghe.

Oh yes they are since he beat Lacy that's where the money is.

Precisely, whilst a die hard fan might be prepared to shell out 15 quid for a PPV to watch Ricky Hatton against one of his many dire WBU mandatories, or pay for Sky Sports in the hope of catching an exciting show maybe twice a month, the average punter isn't going to spend their money on anything unless it's a huge fight between two fighters they have heard of (rare these days, the average geezer on the street wouldn't know who in gods name Floyd Mayweather was if you showed them a photograph, they'd probably think it was some new rapper P-Diddy is working with.), or a big name fighter against a brit.

Mainstream coverage is essential, and TV companies are only interested if it brings in the bucks. Few fights these days guarantee profits for promoters/tv companies any more, and that's why coverage is patchy at best. There's just not enough incentive.

It's lucky guys like Jay Larkin were involved at Showtime, because he was obviously a boxing nut, without people like him, cable companies have a huge variety of other shit they can show instead of boxing, with a lot less hassle in signing deals with promoters etc.

Football might be bloody expensive, but it's guaranteed quality action year in year out, and there's major competitions every single year, champions league, FA CUP, UEFA Cup, etc etc.

So, whilst we might get arsed off with the TV companies picking say the likes of a Jermaine Taylor type opponent in preference for a fight with Kessler, in truth, can you blame them? They are putting the money into the pot to enable the promoter to pay the fighters, with no guarantee of getting that money back in terms of revenue generated.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just saying that it's got to be considered.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: So, whilst we might get arsed off with the TV companies picking say the likes of a Jermaine Taylor type opponent in preference for a fight with Kessler, in truth, can you blame them? They are putting the money into the pot to enable the promoter to pay the fighters, with no guarantee of getting that money back in terms of revenue generated.

With all due respect thats fukin shite when talking about Calzaghe.

The ordinary man in this country dont know Taylor from Kessler for shit. And since Calzaghe had never pandered to, or recieved backing from American TV cables, I cant understand why they will dictate his opponents to him, at this stage of his career.

The fact that casual Americans know Taylor more than Kessler, still doesnt change the fact that British fans dont know the difference - and doesnt stop casual UK fans remaining uninterested and disengaged with its world champions and the sport.

liamlion wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:Casual fans can fvck right off.

Dickhead. Its the attracting of casual fans that would ensure boxing recieves main stream, first-class coverage. The reason why boxing is dying is because the man on the street aint interested in being ripped off by shite promoters, putting on crap fights.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Casual fans are what companies like HBO rely on. Do you think Oscar DeLaHoya sold as those PPV's because of die hard boxing nutters?

To be fair I dont think America TV companies and their considerations, are relevant to any topic of conversation regarding Joe Calzaghe.

Boxing isn't dying at all. It's just in a different era.

Since the turn of the millennium it's become increasingly likely for the best to fight each other.

Look at these divisions since 2000 and tell me this isn't so: cruiserweight, light heavyweight, super middleweight, middleweight, lightweight, super featherweight, featherweight, super flyweight. And if you follow junior middle, welter, junior welter, & flyweight you will see major progress of recent.

In the UK the sport would be way healtheir if ITV didn't have an exclusive agreement with Warren. Yet still we've had great matchups through the year.


What does a casual fan want to see? Oscar de la Hoya. Good for them. They are willing to sit through bores like the Whitaker & Tito fights. They can even watch him on whatever talk show, gameshow or whatever bollocks he wants to make a guest appearance on. Casual fans want to see the Klitshcko brothers pose naked together; they think (thought, more like) that Vitali was a better heavyweight than Larry Holmes.

I'm sick of this shite.

Casual fans is becoming a euphemism for American fans gravitating to American/American hyped stars. What happens when you get a star? He gets manufactured and often given an easy road. Nowadays the onus is on MAKING FIGHTS. Okay, no one's going to ask either guy to model swimwear, sell grilling machines or talk crap on whichever chat show, but CORRALES v CASTILLO 1 shows us what the sport is at best.

Both men's earning power has been maximised & they'd be a lot richer if not for the weight fiascos.

From a casual fan's viewpoint, Calzaghe should fight Felix Trinidad and Roy Jones.

Casual fans have little substance.

People don't seem to have the stomach for boxing these days, it seems. If you're an American, apparently you have to justify it to all and sundry why it's acceptable entertainment. In Britain, we all saw Michael Watson & Gerald McClellan get morally injured. All over the world, PPV has changed the face of the sport, anyhow. It's become marginalised, more of a cult than anything else.

viciousmaussa wrote: Boxing isn't dying at all. It's just in a different era.

Since the turn of the millennium it's become increasingly likely for the best to fight each other.

Look at these divisions since 2000 and tell me this isn't so: cruiserweight, light heavyweight, super middleweight, middleweight, lightweight, super featherweight, featherweight, super flyweight. And if you follow junior middle, welter, junior welter, & flyweight you will see major progress of recent.

To be fair, I think the reason there has been so many proper fights in more recent years is because the sport has had to try and win back interest. Literally people had/have become disullioned with (as many as) four different belt-holders (per division) claiming to be the best at their weight - but very rarely actually finding out who is the best!

You can say its a 'different era', but I think the reality is that boxing has fuked off a lot of punters through greed... the greed of Cable companies, championship organisations, Promoters and fighters in constantly trying to milk easy pay-days.

viciousmaussa wrote: Casual fans have little substance.

Agreed. But that is no bad thing!

Ironically the great thing about a casual fan's ignorance is that they will only be drawn to spend their time watching boxing when they know there is a genuine proper fighter - and im not just talking about delievering old, has-been, name fighters.

This country would be buzzing right the way through if Calzaghe was signed to face kessler. The fact Kessler is unknown to casual fans in this country wouldnt matter, similarly to the Lacy fight - Lacy was unknown over here, yet the message got to the public that Calzaghe was facing a genuinely, live rival champion and that Calazghe would have to fight exceptionally well to win - proper putting it all on the line. That is what casual fight fans expect, and too true to.

liamlion wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote: Boxing isn't dying at all. It's just in a different era.

Since the turn of the millennium it's become increasingly likely for the best to fight each other.

Look at these divisions since 2000 and tell me this isn't so: cruiserweight, light heavyweight, super middleweight, middleweight, lightweight, super featherweight, featherweight, super flyweight. And if you follow junior middle, welter, junior welter, & flyweight you will see major progress of recent.

To be fair, I think the reason there has been so many proper fights in more recent years is because the sport has had to try and win back interest. Literally people had/have become disullioned with (as many as) four different belt-holders (per division) claiming to be the best at their weight - but very rarely actually finding out who is the best!

You can say its a 'different era', but I think the reality is that boxing has fuked off a lot of punters through greed... the greed of Cable companies, championship organisations, Promoters and fighters in constantly trying to milk easy pay-days.

I agree with this. Boxing is in a state of repair right now. As long as networks and promoters are trying to win fans by making great fights, then there will be compelling stuff for people who are prepared to engage with the sport.

I also think that the welath of foreign talent can take the sport to a new era. HBO with the KLit brothers has been a bit of a farce. But it has made Eastern Europeans more palatable and paved the way for the outstanding Adamek-Briggs II fight on HBO. With all these international barriers breaking down - take super middle, for example - things are getting to be special.

Also, the very special Chad Dawson, is not going to be in an anonymous alphabet title fight. If he keeps winning, the talented young American will be in with a punisher like Adamek.

I know that boxing was awesome when it was on ITV. The program was atmospheric. There were fighters that we could all care about. Fans were polarised by British stars and all was great...It will never be like that again and that's a shame. But these days out fighters are getting way more respect abroad, and they are actually getting put in/lined up for more important bouts.

liamlion wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote: Casual fans have little substance.

Agreed. But that is no bad thing!

But the great thing about a casual fan is that they will only be drawn to spend their time watching boxing when they know their is a genuine proper fighter - and im not just talking about delievering old, has-been, name fighters.

This country would be buzzing right the way through if Calzaghe was signed to face kessler. The fact Kessler is unknown to casual fans in this country wouldnt matter, similarly to the Lacy fight - Lacy was unknown over here, yet the message got to the public that Calzaghe was facing a genuinely, live rival champion and that Calazghe would have to fight exceptionally well to win - proper putting it all on the line. That is what casual fight fans expeact, and too true to.

Instead of "they can fck right off", how about:

A NECESSARY EVIL

viciousmaussa wrote: I know that boxing was awesome when it was on ITV. The program was atmospheric. There were fighters that we could all care about.

Jim Rosental, Barry McGuigan, Reg Gutteridge, Gary Newbon and Jim Watt...the Glory days!

viciousmaussa wrote:[
Instead of "they can fck right off", how about:

A NECESSARY EVIL

Yeah, sort of. I know its annoying seeing ignorant dick-heads talking about boxing, but its getting the interest of these sort of people that will put boxing back on the front and back pages of papers, and beamed into our homes on prime time TV.

viciousmaussa wrote:

liamlion wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:Casual fans can fvck right off.

Dickhead. Its the attracting of casual fans that would ensure boxing recieves main stream, first-class coverage. The reason why boxing is dying is because the man on the street aint interested in being ripped off by shite promoters, putting on crap fights.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Casual fans are what companies like HBO rely on. Do you think Oscar DeLaHoya sold as those PPV's because of die hard boxing nutters?

To be fair I dont think America TV companies and their considerations, are relevant to any topic of conversation regarding Joe Calzaghe.

Boxing isn't dying at all. It's just in a different era.



People don't seem to have the stomach for boxing these days, it seems. If you're an American, apparently you have to justify it to all and sundry why it's acceptable entertainment. In Britain, we all saw Michael Watson & Gerald McClellan get morally injured. All over the world, PPV has changed the face of the sport, anyhow. It's become marginalised, more of a cult than anything else.

Hmm methinks there's a contradiction there. On the one hand you say boxing isn't dying, or at least very ill, on the other nobody has the stomach for boxing, which is it?

Boxing used to be MAINSTREAM entertainment. Although there weren't as many TV dates as now, that's partly because there are more channels now and also a lot more 'filler' shite fights.

Fighters didn't earn as much for sure, but look at the press coverage even only as far back as the mid 1980's fighters like McGuigan, Bruno, Honeyghan etc were household names.

I think part of the problem now is that the top line fighters want paying so much money it discourages promoters from putting on the fights. Lately there have been more instances of the top fighters fighting one another, but as I said that is because with so few new young stars and no heavyweight sensation, the sport desperately needs to inject some interest.

The fact that more American's know Taylor than know Kessler, means EVERYTHING. When it comes to generating money from a fight, America remains the holy grail, look at the biggest PPV's in history, all of those fights were staged in the USA, and most of them are pretty recent too.

It's simple economics, it's very rare for a PPV to sell even half what they do in the states, I am guessing here, but I'll bet the biggest here is probably the Tyson v Bruno II PPV, which was the very first one in this country.

what did Hatton do for the Tszyu fight, was it 300,000? That is nothing compared to how many they could POTENTIALLY sell stateside.

American TV money still drives the sport, and so long as you have fighters demanding multi million pound pay packets for individual fights, thus it shall remain. Whether you want to attribute that to the greed of fighters, promoters, whoever, that's just how it is, as you said yourself, it's a different era. Fighters like other sports stars are aware of the possible money to be made, and by jingo they are going to get well paid to fight dangerous opponents.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: The fact that more American's know Taylor than know Kessler, means EVERYTHING. When it comes to generating money from a fight, America remains the holy grail, look at the biggest PPV's in history, all of those fights were staged in the USA, and most of them are pretty recent too.

I agree for fighters like Lennox Lewis, Naseem Hamed, Ricky Hatton - not however relevant in the slightest to discussions about Joe Calzaghe.

If you think Calzaghe is gonna sign for a fight with Taylor or anyother big name Amercian fighters, and go and fight in America - dictated to be HBO or Showtime - then I think youre delusional. Calzaghe appears at his most content when he's fighter relatively unknown, mediocre opponents in somewhere like the Cardiff Ice Rink.

Calzaghe though is nearer the end than the beginning of a long career now. So he has two choices. Soft mandatories and some decent but none to overwhelming paydays, or lining up a big fight with USA backing.

I think for that reason that the chances of him fighting on HBO against a big name American opponent are much enhanced.

Of course a fight with Kessler first would ensure that this would be a far bigger fight.

I am not trying to justify anyone's actions here, just pointing out what I think the likely factors will be in deciding the decisions made for the remainder of Calzaghe's career.