BoxRec

Who do you think is the greatest fighter to box on after the ripe old age of 40?

Archie Moore?

Bernard Hopkins?

George Foreman?

Other nominee?

1.Archie Moore
2.Vacant
3.Vacant
4.Vacant
5.Vacant
6.The Rest

BoxBuzz wrote:1.Archie Moore
2.Vacant
3.Vacant
4.Vacant
5.Vacant
6.The Rest

Archie Moore...no one else is even close!!!!

I think I should have asked who is the greatest 40+ fighter other than Moore!!!! :P

yea syntax........because archie moore takes the crown and leaves anyone else in the dust!!!!

iwill say this. i think bernard hopkins has a lot left in the tank and i feel he can dominate the lightheavyweight divisiion and pick up a heavyweight belt even now at 42.

BoxBuzz wrote:1.Archie Moore
2.Vacant
3.Vacant
4.Vacant
5.Vacant
6.The Rest

this is about right.

The 31 fights Archie had from just days before his 40th birthday to his last fight shown below is a record that can be respected all by itself. And in fact Would J.D. Chapman or McCline or some other top 20 current Heavy or Light Heavies be able to match it?

I pose this question in either in fight for fight against the current record vs Archies old record....OR take them back and force them to fight these fighters would there records be as good? (By the way according to most in the crowd he beat Pastrano which was declared a draw.)

I think boxing is getting better and that fighters are getting better but this question I pose is one of the greatest arguments against my theory. Of course this man seemed to be a bit of a phenom when it came to aging gracefully in the ring.



1963-03-15 206 Mike DiBiase 230 0-0-0
Madison Square Garden, Phoenix, AZ, USA W TKO 3 10
"Archie Moore came to Phoenix and took a match with wrestler Mike DiBiase. The match was set for 10-rounds, and was a challenge affair stemming from a previous bout that Moore had refereed. Needless to say, Mike was no match..Mike was taking a pretty good licking, but a cut eye was the cause of stopping the bout."

1962-11-15 191 Muhammad Ali 204 15-0-0
Sports Arena, Los Angeles, CA, USA L TKO 4 12
~ Time: 1:35 | Referee: Tommy Hart ~
~ Moore was knocked down three times in the 4th. ~

1962-05-28 201½ Willie Pastrano 185 55-10-6
Sports Arena, Los Angeles, CA, USA D PTS 10 10
~ Referee: Tommy Hart 5-4 | Judge: Dick Young 5-5 | Judge: Lee Grossman 5-5 ~
(Poster)

1962-05-07 199 Howard King 200 38-24-8
Tijuana, BCN, Mexico W KO 1 10
~ Time: 1:15 ~

1962-03-30 197 Alejandro Lavorante 211 19-2-0
Sports Arena, Los Angeles, CA, USA W TKO 10 10
~ Time: 0:38 | Referee: Tommy Hart 9-3 | Judge: Lee Grossman 9-1 | Judge: George Latka 10-2 ~
Lavorante was carried from the ring on a stretcher.

1961-10-23 198 Pete Rademacher 192 13-5-1
Coliseum, Baltimore, MD, USA W TKO 6 10
~ Time: 2:10 | Referee: Benny Goldstein ~
Rademacher was down eight times

1961-06-10 174½ Giulio Rinaldi 173¾ 25-5-0
Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA W UD 15 15
~ Referee: Ruby Goldstein 11-3 | Judge: Artie Aidala 11-4 | Judge: Tony Castellano 9-5 ~
~ NYSAC World Light Heavyweight Title ~
~ European (EBU) Light Heavyweight Title ~
Also recognized as for World Light Heavyweight Title by California, Massachussets -- NBA had stripped Moore on Oct 25, 1960

1961-03-25 203 Buddy Turman 187¾ 35-7-1
Araneta Coliseum, Manila, Philippines W UD 10 10
~ 50-39 | 50-42 | 53-50 ~

1960-11-28 189 Buddy Turman 186 35-6-1
Dallas, TX, USA W UD 10 10
~ Referee: Jacky Woodruff 99-94 | Judge: William Shaw 96-94 | Judge: Lonnie Hudkins 100-96 ~

1960-10-29 190¼ Giulio Rinaldi 181¼ 21-5-0
Palazzetto dello Sport, Rome, Italy L PTS 10 10
The referee issued a standing eight count to Moore in the 10th.

1960-09-13 193 George Abinet 198 6-15-1
Dallas, TX, USA W TKO 4 10
Abinet was down twice in the 3rd. He did not come out for the 4th round, due to a broken nose.

1960-05-25 206½ Willi Besmanoff 198½ 42-19-7
Indianapolis, IN, USA W TKO 10 10
Promoted as for "American Heavyweight Title"

1959-08-12 174¼ Yvon Durelle 173 82-21-2
Forum, Montreal, QC, Canada W KO 3 15
~ Time: 2:52 | Referee: Jack Sharkey ~
~ NYSAC World Light Heavyweight Title ~
~ National Boxing Association World Light Heavyweight Title ~
World Light Heavyweight Title
Durelle was knocked down four times in the 3rd.

1959-03-09 192 Sterling Davis 212 0-0-0
Ector County Coliseum, Odessa, TX, USA W TKO 3 10
~ Referee: Paavo Ketonen ~
Davis was a wrestler. The referee stopped it due to bad cuts over both of Davis' eyes. Davis was down three times in the 2nd.

1958-12-10 173¾ Yvon Durelle 172 81-20-2
Forum, Montreal, QC, Canada W KO 11 15
~ Time: 0:49 | Referee: Jack Sharkey ~
World Light Heavyweight Title
Moore down three times in first, once in fourth. Gets up puts Durelle down four times for win.

1958-08-04 189 Howard King 191 34-15-6
Moana Ball Park, Reno, NV, USA D PTS 10 10
1958-06-09 196½ Howard King 194 34-14-6
Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, CA, USA W PTS 10 10
1958-05-26 196 Charley Norkus 193 32-16-0
Civic Auditorium, San Francisco, CA, USA W PTS 10 10
1958-05-17 195½ Howard King 195 34-13-6
San Diego, CA, USA W PTS 10 10
1958-05-02 196½ Willi Besmanoff 191 38-10-7
Freedom Hall, Louisville, KY, USA W SD 10 10
Besmanoff was knocked down in the 3rd.

1958-03-10 201½ Bob Albright 225 21-7-3
Vancouver, BC, Canada W TKO 7 10
1958-03-04 196½ Bert Whitehurst 194½ 24-12-2
Swing Auditorium, San Bernardino, CA, USA W TKO 10 10
~ Referee: Tommy Hart 86-88 | Judge: Costello Cruz 87-86 | Judge: John Thomas 89-86 ~
Whitehurst was knocked down twice in the 10th round.

1958-02-01 189¼ Julio Neves 183¾ 7-7-0
Estadio Pacaembu, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil W KO 3 10
~ Time: 1:40 ~

1958-01-18 190½ Luíz Ignacio 179 23-2-1
Estadio Ibirapuera, Sao Paulo, Brazil W PTS 10 10
1957-11-29 199 Roger Rischer 184 14-5-2
Portland, OR, USA W KO 4 10
1957-11-05 192 Eddie Cotton 177½ 33-7-1
Civic Auditorium, Seattle, WA, USA W PTS 10 10
Cotton was knocked down three times

1957-10-31 193 Bob Mitchell 193 6-7-2
Exhibition Gardens, Vancouver, BC, Canada W TKO 5 10
~ Time: 1:45 | Referee: Bert Lowes ~
The referee stopped the bout after Mitchell went down twice in the round.

1957-09-20 175 Tony Anthony 172 31-4-1
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, CA, USA W KO 7 15
~ Time: 2:29 | Referee: Mushy Callahan ~
World Light Heavyweight Title
Anthony was knocked down in the 6th and 7th.

1957-06-02 189 Alain Cherville 200 19-5-0
Ausstellungshalle, Stuttgart, Germany W TKO 6 10
~ Referee: Max Schmeling ~
Cherville was knocked down in the 1st, 2nd, and 6th rounds.

1957-05-01 206½ Hans Kalbfell 210½ 16-1-0
Dubois Arena, Essen, Germany W PTS 10 10
~ Referee: Max Schmeling ~
Kalfbell was knocked down in the 4th and 9th rounds.

1956-11-30 187¾ Floyd Patterson 182¼ 30-1-0
Chicago Stadium, Chicago, IL, USA L KO 5 15

Syntax Error wrote:Who do you think is the greatest fighter to box on after the ripe old age of 40?

Archie Moore?

Bernard Hopkins?

George Foreman?

Other nominee?

Hopkins has probably a good claim for the #2 spot.

You know Pundit I'm inclined to agree. However Bernard has a way to go to bring some credibility to 2nd place.


Post 40 record Archie Moore
27Wins (15by KO)
2Draws (His draw with King was avenged)
3 Losses....1 to Ali and One to Patterson His loss to Rinaldi was avenged.

Post 40 Record for Bernard Hopkins so far.
2wins
2losses.

..okay...toss out the dibiase fight.....so what.....a particle of dust in a mountain of acheivement.

..pastrano thought archie was a wonder...in one of those collection of interviews with boxers....too much trouble to walk over and look up the title....the funny, colorful pastrano has some interesting comments about their fight.....

Bob Fitzsimmons won the Lt. hvy title at what...39 year old and he was pretty successful after 40!

I was in attendance at the Dibiase fight and trust me Moore showed no mercy until after it was over. It may not count as legit in terms of competition but Archie was not playing games while the clock was ticking.

barry.....you have a point with fitz however I'm sort of endorsing hopkins based on possible future performance......but he better make it on quality because I know he won't be very active....though I hear he continues to stay in shape as if he's going to sign some future contracts. Which has been his way all during his career.

barry wrote:Bob Fitzsimmons won the Lt. hvy title at what...39 year old and he was pretty successful after 40!

Good call; although there's only one succesful title defense on Fitz' record after the age of 40. The rest are losses or less significnat fights.

I don't know who is the best, but I remember all this boys fighting until 40 and more:

George Foreman
Archie Moore
Bob Fitzsimmons
Larry Holmes
Jack Johnson
Kid Azteca
Harold Johnson
Dick Tiger
Ray Robinson
Eder Jofre
San Langford
Bernard Hopkins

BoxBuzz wrote:I was in attendance at the Dibiase fight and trust me Moore showed no mercy until after it was over. It may not count as legit in terms of competition but Archie was not playing games while the clock was ticking..

And you recall the details? I had no idea you were so old and decrepit :)

uh..... Old, Wise and Strong......yeah that's the ticket...Old Wise and Strong......and did I mention fast?

..you think that makes the buzzbomb old? hey..i saw archie moore live from ringside in 1948!

The Peruvian heavyweight Fridolino Vilca and American lightweight Kenny Lane fought after the 50 years old

elmersalsa wrote:You guys forgot Roberto Duran and Jack Johnson and also Saoul Mamby. They fought after 40.

But did they achieve anything?

..pundit's question clarifies the distinction between merely fighting after 40 and continuing on a high level.

....okay...hopkins is 40 and still good....but does anyone really think he is going to go on to have an entire career to equal or even come close to that of archie moore?

Which conveniently brings us to the defining reason why Archie and not Ezzard is the definitive all time greatest LHW champion in the history of all the cosmos. Longevity would be more than a tie breaker. My friend Jaclem likes to kid on this subject and makes up elaborate formula tables to try to make premature "peak vs peak" as the defining factor. However after consulting with brilliant minds the world over it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that such theorys are simply dramatic diversions from the true primary determinant. This of course being effective longevity.

Archie simply learned some great things in his relatively younger years from his teacher Ezzard and then went on to eclipse the master once the "former" master had seen his better days, fizzled out prematurely and then of course set out to pasture..... so to speak.

BoxBuzz wrote:Which conveniently brings us to the defining reason why Archie and not Ezzard is the definitive all time greatest LHW champion in the history of all the cosmos.

Only because you saw Archie fight.... Ezzard vs. Archie 3-0.
Gene Tunney belongs above Archie Moore too.