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The ref saved Benn against McClellan
Posted: 13 Nov 2006, 12:33
by pundit
I've seen the bout several times now and have no doubt that Benn would not have made it out of round 1 had the ref not held back McClellan's repeatedly after the knockdown, giving Benn additional time to recover. Boy, I don't want to be in this ref's skin.
P
Re: The ref saved Benn against McClellan
Posted: 13 Nov 2006, 12:46
by KO Artist
pundit wrote:I've seen the bout several times now and have no doubt that Benn would not have made it out of round 1 had the ref not held back McClellan's repeatedly after the knockdown, giving Benn additional time to recover. Boy, I don't want to be in this ref's skin.
P
Yeah he did save Benn, I was screaming at the telly at the time I backed McClellan to win in the first.
Benn did so well to come back though and its a sad sad tale.
Posted: 13 Nov 2006, 12:51
by mattyp151
Don't tell that to a Nigel Benn fan...the ref was completely legit that night according to some...
Posted: 13 Nov 2006, 15:59
by BoxBuzz
The real fact of the matter is that the ref COULD have saved McClellan from the awful outcome by just doing his job right. Nothing more. Should have gone down in the books as KO1 and life would have gone on for everyone. Well...except a few dogs if the rumors are true.
Posted: 13 Nov 2006, 16:02
by Syntax Error
It was the people at ringside who saved Benn.
Had they not pushed him back in, he would not have beat the count.
Posted: 14 Nov 2006, 11:02
by BoxBuzz
Terence wrote:Referees often make errors in fights. The error in this fight did not lead directly to the injuries sustained by McClellan. Gerald only training for a few rounds and allegedly doing a thousand push-ups on the day of the fight as well as having no Plan B lead to the sad conclusion.
The only way this thread has any legitimacy is if we say that Gerald had gambled everything on the first round KO and the ref ruined this, even if that is the case the reason Gerald is currently suffering is down to the fact he did not prepare well for a huge fight and ended up paying the price. So it falls on his shoulders.
The ref made a mistake, as many refs do yet he made a single error in the first round, one made in the heat of the moment it must be said. Team McClellan had a lengthy time to prepare and made mistake after mistake. That is why he lost the fight.
I wouldnt argue with this...other than to say there should be competency tests for refs.....that's one guy that would not likely pass the test. A mistake is one thing but being totaly lame is another.
Posted: 14 Nov 2006, 12:45
by pundit
Terence wrote:Referees often make errors in fights. The error in this fight did not lead directly to the injuries sustained by McClellan. Gerald only training for a few rounds and allegedly doing a thousand push-ups on the day of the fight as well as having no Plan B lead to the sad conclusion.
The only way this thread has any legitimacy is if we say that Gerald had gambled everything on the first round KO and the ref ruined this, even if that is the case the reason Gerald is currently suffering is down to the fact he did not prepare well for a huge fight and ended up paying the price. So it falls on his shoulders.
The ref made a mistake, as many refs do yet he made a single error in the first round, one made in the heat of the moment it must be said. Team McClellan had a lengthy time to prepare and made mistake after mistake. That is why he lost the fight.
I'm not blaming the ref for McClellan's injury. I'm only saying that I don't want to be in his skin. Even if you don't blame the ref, the fact remains that McClellan would most likley be a healthy man today had the ref done his job properly (even though there would be a few healthy dogs less...).
At the same time, nobody could know of course that things would turn out like this.
Posted: 14 Nov 2006, 14:52
by KOJOE90
BoxBuzz wrote:The real fact of the matter is that the ref COULD have saved McClellan from the awful outcome by just doing his job right. Nothing more. Should have gone down in the books as KO1 and life would have gone on for everyone. Well...except a few dogs if the rumors are true.
Maybe or maybe not. Some say some of the damage done to McClellan was done in the first Julian Jackson fight and with his less than water tight defence maybe the G-man just had a 'weakness' towards head injuries. If he had had stopped Benn in the 1st round who knows what would have happened to him in the next war he had.
As for the fight itself yes the referee did make mistakes but don't underestimate Benns desire to win, it would not have been totally impossible for Benn to have made it through the opening round without the refs 'help'.
Posted: 14 Nov 2006, 16:16
by BoxBuzz
KOJOE90 wrote:BoxBuzz wrote:The real fact of the matter is that the ref COULD have saved McClellan from the awful outcome by just doing his job right. Nothing more. Should have gone down in the books as KO1 and life would have gone on for everyone. Well...except a few dogs if the rumors are true.
Maybe or maybe not. Some say some of the damage done to McClellan was done in the first Julian Jackson fight and with his less than water tight defence maybe the G-man just had a 'weakness' towards head injuries. If he had had stopped Benn in the 1st round who knows what would have happened to him in the next war he had.
As for the fight itself yes the referee did make mistakes but don't underestimate Benns desire to win, it would not have been totally impossible for Benn to have made it through the opening round without the refs 'help'.
No argument from me on that....when it comes to "what ifs" there are truly a mountain of them.
Posted: 14 Nov 2006, 16:38
by pundit
KOJOE90 wrote:BoxBuzz wrote:The real fact of the matter is that the ref COULD have saved McClellan from the awful outcome by just doing his job right. Nothing more. Should have gone down in the books as KO1 and life would have gone on for everyone. Well...except a few dogs if the rumors are true.
Maybe or maybe not. Some say some of the damage done to McClellan was done in the first Julian Jackson fight and with his less than water tight defence maybe the G-man just had a 'weakness' towards head injuries. If he had had stopped Benn in the 1st round who knows what would have happened to him in the next war he had.
As for the fight itself yes the referee did make mistakes but don't underestimate Benns desire to win, it would not have been totally impossible for Benn to have made it through the opening round without the refs 'help'.
Noone can know for sure, but even with the greatest possible help and unlimited desire Benn barely survived round 1. With a ref who lets the fight resume after 10 seconds as he is supposed to -- I see no way how Benn would have made it out of there.
Posted: 14 Nov 2006, 17:17
by Floyd
Decagon wrote:The headbutt Benn landed near the end of the fight was one of the most flagrant fouls I've ever seen. Even Tyson biting Holyfield's ears wasn't as bad.
Are you serious?
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 06:37
by Ezzard
With or without the ref McClellan had Benn all but out in round 1 and Benn's comeback was remarkable. Many didn't think he'd get out of round 2. One thing in Benn's favour was that he was ducking very low, so he had enough going on mentally to know that he had to survive.
Whatever the ref did or didn't do my money was firmly on Gerald when the bell went for round 2.
McClellan complained of headaches from the first Jackson fight onwards. He even talked about how he was so dehydrated for that fight that his skin temporarily changed colour to a paler hue. I think McClellan's injuries were partly due to his lack of preparation and partly due to his boiling down for the weight routine. This was okay as long as he finished the fight quickly but in a gruelling battle it would work against him.
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 09:41
by silkov
Decagon wrote:It's not like Holyfield suffered permanent brain damage because of the bite. Watch Benn-McClellan again, and look at how McClellan reacts after that butt. He can't stop blinking his eyes, and it's clear there's something wrong with him.
Total rubbish!... Gerald was blinking as early as the 6th round!... it had nothing to do with the butt... and what about Geralds repeated fouls?... try watching the fight again, Gerlad was in trouble from the 5th round onwards, nothing to do with butts at all!...
As for Benn being 'saved' in the 1st round thats another myth... fighters have 20 seconds to get back into the ring after being knocked out and he made it in 9!... if you want to see a fighter who was saved in the 1st and manhandled back into the ring watch Dempsey vs Firpo!...
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 09:47
by silkov
Its funny, some people here seem more annoyed by Gerald 'losing' to a Brit than the fact that he's ended up in such a pitiful condition... if Geralds people had trained him better and made him pay more attention to his defence, and not have dismissed Benn as another chinless Brit then Gerald would probably be in much better shape today... the fact is the way he fought, with basically no defence whatsoever, he was always an accident waiting to happen imo... he had just about the worst defence of any 'world class' fighter that I've ever seen and its probable that he went into the Benn fight already injured from a previous fight/fights or even sparring...
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 09:53
by JC
KOJOE90 wrote:Maybe or maybe not. Some say some of the damage done to McClellan was done in the first Julian Jackson fight and with his less than water tight defence maybe the G-man just had a 'weakness' towards head injuries. If he had had stopped Benn in the 1st round who knows what would have happened to him in the next war he had..
I have heard this theory before and it sounds plausable, but obviously we'll never know for sure.
One thing I notice in the fight is that because of McClennan's stance many of Benn's shots were landing on the temple rather than the chin I always wondered if this was part of the reason for the damage.
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 10:28
by pundit
silkov wrote:Its funny, some people here seem more annoyed by Gerald 'losing' to a Brit than the fact that he's ended up in such a pitiful condition...
BS.
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 10:48
by silkov
pundit wrote:silkov wrote:Its funny, some people here seem more annoyed by Gerald 'losing' to a Brit than the fact that he's ended up in such a pitiful condition...
BS.
Well you would say that wouldnt you!... 8)
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 10:50
by pundit
silkov wrote:pundit wrote:silkov wrote:Its funny, some people here seem more annoyed by Gerald 'losing' to a Brit than the fact that he's ended up in such a pitiful condition...
BS.
Well you would say that wouldnt you!... 8)
BS part 2.
You've had better days, mate.... The above is a totally unnecessary, character assasinating statement. I wonder what for?
P
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 11:02
by Floyd
Decagon wrote:It's not like Holyfield suffered permanent brain damage because of the bite. Watch Benn-McClellan again, and look at how McClellan reacts after that butt. He can't stop blinking his eyes, and it's clear there's something wrong with him.
The clash of heads was far from intentional. Benn came in with a punch and they hit heads. Yes it did bother McClellan, but seemed in no way inteentional.
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 15:29
by silkov
pundit wrote:silkov wrote:pundit wrote:
BS.
Well you would say that wouldnt you!... 8)
BS part 2.
You've had better days, mate.... The above is a totally unnecessary, character assasinating statement. I wonder what for?
P
What character assainating?.... I said nothing about you personally, you're getting the wrong end of the stick mate... but while we're at it you're claim that the ref 'saved' Benn from a ko and resulted in Mcclelans injury isnt your best moment either and is also a long way from what actually happened that night...
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 15:35
by pundit
silkov wrote:pundit wrote:silkov wrote:
Well you would say that wouldnt you!... 8)
BS part 2.
You've had better days, mate.... The above is a totally unnecessary, character assasinating statement. I wonder what for?
P
What character assainating?.... I said nothing about you personally, you're getting the wrong end of the stick mate... but while we're at it you're claim that the ref 'saved' Benn from a ko and resulted in Mcclelans injury isnt your best moment either and is also a long way from what actually happened that night...
Why is that?
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 16:01
by silkov
pundit wrote:silkov wrote:pundit wrote:
BS part 2.
You've had better days, mate.... The above is a totally unnecessary, character assasinating statement. I wonder what for?
P
What character assainating?.... I said nothing about you personally, you're getting the wrong end of the stick mate... but while we're at it you're claim that the ref 'saved' Benn from a ko and resulted in Mcclelans injury isnt your best moment either and is also a long way from what actually happened that night...
Why is that?
Becuase the ref didnt save Benn, Benn was back in the ring at 9 and could have had another 10 seconds if he had wanted... the ref faffed around a bit but if Gerald was going to ko Benn in the first he would have, to say that the ref changed the course of the fight is totally wrong.
As for Geralds injury noone really knows when that occured but to try and blame Benn for Butts or the ref is very misguided, if anyone is to blame its Geralds corner for sending him out round for round when it was obvious from the 5th onwards that he was in trouble... but rather than apportioning blame for why it happened people should really be talking about how Gerald and other boxers like him are summarily abandoned by the promoters etc after they are injured and how fighters still dont have pensions or insurance etc... ...rant over.
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 16:10
by el tigre del sur
silkov wrote:... but rather than apportioning blame for why it happened people should really be talking about how Gerald and other boxers like him are summarily abandoned by the promoters etc after they are injured and how fighters still dont have pensions or insurance etc... ...rant over.
One interesting thing I did observe straight after the fight was the ubiquitous Don King all over Benn like shit to a blanket and nowhere near McClellan's corner even though his fighter was lying prostrate!
Watch the tape people.
As for the wider argument. . . yes the referee was woeful. IMO Benn got up in time from the first knockdown. . . and did a job on McLellan that night which will go down as one of the gutsiest come from behind wins in boxing history.
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 16:16
by harrygreb
Posted: 15 Nov 2006, 16:20
by harrygreb
silkov, could you please tell me how you get that light shading with a previous post (highlighting a quote) on your own post - do you know what i'm trying to say? when i want to use a quote from a previous poster i press the quote button and highlight what i want but i would prefer to do it like everyone else is doing it, yourself for instance - help an old man in a fix will you old pal?