BoxRec

I see them as very similar early in their careers. Both enormously physically gifted with incredible speed and reflexes. Because of this, neither had to be a technically sound fighter.

Later in their careers, when the enormous physical advantages declined, the difference as I see it is that it turned out that Ali had another special physical talent - the ability to take a punch and absorb punishment.

I am not a physician and have no real knowledge regarding the present condition of Ali and his ability to absorb punishment. But, it seems common knowledge, at least amongst fight announcers and analysts, that absorbing a lot of punishment over several rounds is physically more damaging than being hit with a solid punch and being knocked out.

Of course, Roy's career isn't over, I wish it was. But, at this point, I would say the similarity is enormous physical gifts leading to technical deficiencies (which didn't matter as long as the physical gifts were in tact) and I would see the difference as the ability of Ali to take incredible punishment and continue fighting (most often winning in the end, as per his win against George Foreman).

So, in conclusion, I don't see either as being an especially good boxer. But, both as being enormously physically talented with Ali having the additional capacity to take a punch and punishment.

TigerMoth wrote: So, in conclusion, I don't see either as being an especially good boxer.

That's because they were "great"...not just "especially good"...Ali's career achievment demonstrates that beyond any doubt...The only serious knock against a prime RJJ is that he didn't fight everyone he should have...but, then again, Roy's concern wasn't about how he would be thought of in Boxrec's BOTP posts...it was about making the most money while taking the least amount of risk...does that take something away from his accomplishments...yes, but he was still a great fighter....and an "especially good boxer" as well...

TigerMoth wrote:I see them as very similar early in their careers. Both enormously physically gifted with incredible speed and reflexes.

Ali was physically gifted.

Most of Jones's gifts were due to the assistance of a very good chemist.

ebeneezer wrote:

TigerMoth wrote:I see them as very similar early in their careers. Both enormously physically gifted with incredible speed and reflexes.

Ali was physically gifted.

Most of Jones's gifts were due to the assistance of a very good chemist.

Please elaborate....

You're implying anabolic steroids? Heard that before...but he doesn't look like a beefed up steroid guy to me...got any kind of proof?

ebeneezer wrote:

TigerMoth wrote:I see them as very similar early in their careers. Both enormously physically gifted with incredible speed and reflexes.

Ali was physically gifted.

Most of Jones's gifts were due to the assistance of a very good chemist.

So, you think they could take any young guy off the street, pump him full of chemicals and he'd then be a stellar fighter.

Seems a bit far-fetched to me...

Actually it sounds fekkin crazy but this is certainly the right forum for such ideas.

I'd say that steroid abuse is common place in the sport today.

As Collins says though pumping weights and roids isn't going to turn you into a champion, otherwise guys from every muscle gym in the world would be all time greats.

Jones was known to be ultra-fast when he was just a skinny kid, 15-17 years old. That was when he was just a farmer boy, he'd not even have money for that stuff.

from the age of 13 roy always new what was going in his body. he had diets he followed and supliments as well. if im not mistaken, he used ripped fuel at one point, which was a legal supliment but had some ingredient that was illigal. that was during the time he faught richard hill if im not mistaken.... i got all the details at home..

Jones was actually pretty technically sound as an amateur. From a boxing fundamentals standpoint he always had more weapons than Ali (more punches in his arsenal ect). Like Ali though he got complacent getting away with things based on his natural ability, and when someone came along with enough skills, at a time when his natural talent was fading he wasn't able to go back to the basics, or dig down heart wise and pull out the victory. Ali on the other hand had a huge heart and was able to grind it out when it really mattered, even when his skills and natural talent failed him, Ali had a much more stable psyche and in my opinion just more balls in general. Thats what made him great.