BoxRec

I watched it for the first time in years last night, and also for the first time ever I scored it. I'm sure alot of people are going to strongly disagree with me, but in my opinion, through 12 rounds, Joe Frazier looked to me like he pretty much had the fight won. Ali won the last 2 rounds huge, including the 14th, 10-8 on my card, and really opened Frazier up. And here's the shocker. When Frazier quit, I had him ahead by 3 points. Actually scoring an Ali-Frazier fight can be rather difficult, for 2 big reasons. First, no matter how hard Frazier get's hit, he just keeps coming forward throwing punches, and for that reason, through 12 rds I saw him very clearly outworking Ali. Second, Ali plays possum so much, and whether he takes a huge shot to the body, head or on his arms or gloves, his reaction is pretty much the same. Boxing analysts have long made the argument that the 70's Ali was a master of laying on the ropes and blocking punches and then countering. Realistically speaking though, that's more of a half truth. What amazes me about Muhammad Ali as I watch him more and more, is his incredibly amazing toughness. Contrary to what many analysts claim, Ali blocked alot of those huge punches with his body, ribs, and jaw. He was one of boxing's greatest ever at taking a beating and not showing it. Ironically, when the Thrilla in Manila ended with Frazier surrendering on his stool, minutes later, Smokin Joe was standing up on apparently steady legs, while Ali practically slumped on his stool.

Seamus wrote:I'm sure alot of people are going to strongly disagree with me

Ya got that right! Here's an old thread of mine on this.

It wasn't his legs that were the problem, it was his eyes. His right eye was puffed up and his left eye was legally blind. Futch didn't want to get his fighter getting hit while blind. Its amazing that Frazier fought in the professional heavyweight championship level with a blind eye.

I thought Ali was ahead at the time of the stoppage, but let's not forget the courage of both men.

Frazier was a truly remarkable man; to fight blind, in that heat & take all that punishment, keep coming & only to be saved from himself by a good cornerman.

Joe would still be fighting that fight NOW if he had his way.

ON boxing skill and ring generalship I had Ali ahead in that fight....but I would say that both in the first and third fights the real story is all about what a brutal beating these guys laid on one other. The literally both beat the crap out of each other.

The second fight was not quite as brutal as it seemed Ali took a pure business attitude and that actually kept them both a bit on the safer side.

You can't write fiction as strange as what these guys wrote into the history books with their own reality.

The official scorecards for the 'Thrilla In Manilla' were 66-60, 66-62 and 67-62 all in favour of Ali at the time of the stoppage.

Seamus wrote:Ironically, when the Thrilla in Manila ended with Frazier surrendering on his stool, minutes later, Smokin Joe was standing up on apparently steady legs, while Ali practically slumped on his stool.

I think Ali actually collapsed after getting up to raise his hand in weary triumph. Whether he fainted or just collapsed from exhaustion I'm not sure but if you watch the tape there's a huge commotion around Ali about a minute or two after the stoppage and they bring the stool out to the middle of the ring and prop the great man back on it.

One interesting question I've never heard asked is what would Dundee have done had the tables been turned and Ali was blinded in one eye? I don't see anyone telling Ali what to do and he had just that bit extra in terms of will than any other boxer I've studied. Fighting Norton for more than half a 12rd fight with a broken jaw and taking all that punishment from Foreman are testament to his will. As is getting up and surviving the first Frazier fight.

I think this fight is my favourite HW fight of all time.

I can't remember exactly when he said this, but there was a quote from Ali, that had Frazier come out for the 15th round, he (Ali) would not have. The scores at the end of 14 rounds are really surprising to me. In my estimation, the 13th and 14th were the only rounds Ali really dominated. Great fight, but I like Foreman v Lyle and the Rumble In The Jungle better.