BoxRec

I'm really dissapointed Joe is taking on Manfredo.

Joe is so underrated and IMO the best fighter this country has ever produced.

I know SN think they can increase his market appeal by taking on ex-ontender star Manfredo (...was this contender series at middlewight, where he was beaten by a welter called Alphonso Gomez...?); but I don't think the real boxing fans will be convinced after he's given Manfredo a good going over!

I've met Joe's Dad, Enzo (what an amazing character, he should be on the telly!!), and he's understandably frustrated that Joe's not gettin the recognition he deserves.

Hatton seems to have cemented his legacy by beating a 37 year old, weight drained and ring rusty Kostya Tsyzu (..Yes, I agree that Kosta was still formidable, but nowhere near his peak..); I just hope that Joe gets a defining fight before his age catches up with him, because he's much, much better than the average boxing fan realises.

Kostya is ageing at a real pace these days... starts off 2005 at 35 and is 37 by June.

caster wrote: Hatton seems to have cemented his legacy by beating a 37 year old, weight drained and ring rusty Kostya Tsyzu (..Yes, I agree that Kosta was still formidable, but nowhere near his peak..);

Its far too cheap and easy to say things like that after the event has taken place, what is it that they say about hindsight?

The fact is Kosta Tszyu had impressively dispatched of both Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell before he fought Hatton in a manner that suggested he wasnt at all past his peak (arguably they were the most impressive displays of his career) - and on those occassions he had come off similarly long injury-induced-lay-offs and showed no signs of ring-rust or adverse effects of weight-drain.

Nobody was seriously giving Hatton a chance prior to the fight. There was a real fear that Hatton could get seriously damaged, and Hatton was aware of this concern felt by many. Coming into the fight Tsyzu was the linear light-welterweight champion of the world, and rated by many to be among the world's best pound for pound fighters and one of the most deadliest punchers - particularly with his right. But for the fact that Hatton fought like a possessed demon, with a rock-solid chin - those right hands landed by Tsyzu on the night would have finished off many world-class light-welterweights.

Hatton deserves credit for the fact that he was prepared to get into the ring with a man who possessed such a reputation - let alone for taking the man's best shots and battering him into submission.

Taki... wrote:Kostya is ageing at a real pace these days... starts off 2005 at 35 and is 37 by June.

Going away a little from the main topic here but to all those who knock Hatton's victory over Tszyu.... why does Tszyu always have to be old or rusty or too far gone from his prime whenever the fight is mentioned? Tszyu at his 'peak' was beaten by Vince Phillips so it wasn't like he needed to be in a zimmer frame before anyone could beat him. He was very good yes but not invincible. Phillips btw was a guy who was no way as good as Hatton is so you know it is possible that maybe Tszyu wasn't all that far gone in the fight and maybe it was just a case of Hatton being too good, strong, determined and busy on the night. It sometimes happens you know.

As for Calzaghe, he was supposed to look scintillating against Bika but he never. Expect Calzaghe to keep getting knock over jobs until he looks the business again like the Lacy fight . Going to the wire with Sakio Bika isn't the right platform from which to launch yourself in the US

You'll find there are a few people who post on here with the benefit of hindsight (its the nature of the sport) but it's very bad when it comes to the Hatton/Tszyu fight.

Those pople annoy me quite a lot - Giving it plenty of disrespect beforehand saying Hatton would get knocked out within 3 rounds, and then either disappearing for a few months after the event, or having to drink a can of 'shut the fornicate up' for a few months.

But all good haters aren't kept down for too long, and you'll see they have surfaced again now - Some are even very good posters, but for me, they have shown their true colours. :p

calzaghe's career is so predictable.

2 steps forward then 3 steps back.

least now HBO have him signed up and they won't stand for this crap much longer.

Twinkle Toes wrote:You'll find there are a few people who post on here with the benefit of hindsight (its the nature of the sport) but it's very bad when it comes to the Hatton/Tszyu fight.

Those pople annoy me quite a lot - Giving it plenty of disrespect beforehand saying Hatton would get knocked out within 3 rounds, and then either disappearing for a few months after the event, or having to drink a can of 'shut the fornicate up' for a few months.

But all good haters aren't kept down for too long, and you'll see they have surfaced again now - Some are even very good posters, but for me, they have shown their true colours. :p

no hatton fan is saying that tszyu was in his prime against hatton. tszyu's prime was the mid to late 90's.

but it was still an excellent win and he deserves all the kudos he got for it.

Didn't intend to take anything away from Ricky. He deserves huge respect, I just felt that allegedly and Ricky got Kostya at exactly the right time (I believe Frank, Ricky and his trainer know that as well).

Ricky is a lionheart, no doubt, but pound for pound I think Joe is superior.

I thought Ricky would beat Kostya because of the unbelieavable pace he sets.

Sharmba Mitchell is and was on the slide when he fought Kostya.

Best of luck to warrior Hatton on his quest for hall of fame status.

Joe is so underrated and IMO the best fighter this country has ever produced.

I agree with that regardless of being a huge Calzaghe fan.

Most of our British fighters fight too basic styles, except for Ingle fighter swith their counter punching and switch hitting.

As for Tszyu, I never knew what to say about him since I never saw or heard of him before Hatton too much.

Hatton's messing up his career to be honest, he wasn't bothered about one fight a year, as he said in Boxing Monthly's Hatton Urango preview that Hbo pushed the date back and being at the level I'm at, I don't want more than two fights a year anyway!

caster wrote:Joe is so underrated and IMO the best fighter this country has ever produced.

Do you mean Wales or Britain?

In the former case: probably not. What about 1910s lightweight champion Freddie Welsh?
In the latter case: most definitely not. Ever heard of Lennox Lewis?

With Calzaghe it's always a case of what fights COULD HAVE been made.

Dean Francis - IF he hadn't had a career plummeting shoulder injury
Steve Collins - IF he hadn't pulled out
Howard Eastman - IF he had beaten Joppy for the WBA regular belt
Bernard Hopkins - IF he would've accepted the 3 mil
Roy Jones - IF Joe & SN would have dared
Harry Simon - IF Simon hadn't caused fatalities in TWO car crashes


So why don't they make a bloody concerted effort to get some meaningful comp? Why 'let' a gy like Ottke make 20 FVCKING DEFENCES IN YOUR DIVISION, if you're meant to be better; why let Kessler UNIFY TITLES if you're the #1 at super middle?

pundit wrote:

caster wrote:Joe is so underrated and IMO the best fighter this country has ever produced.

Do you mean Wales or Britain?

In the former case: probably not. What about 1910s lightweight champion Freddie Welsh?
In the latter case: most definitely not. Ever heard of Lennox Lewis?

He's not even one of the top ten best fighters we've ever had. Ted Lewis, Winstone, Honeyghan, Buchanan to name a few. Hell, he's not even the best super-middle we've had.

And viciousmaussa, if you factor in Larson, Catley, Beyer, and Johnson too, it becomes even more damning.

He is the best Supermiddle from Britain.

Max Molyneux wrote:He is the best Supermiddle from Britain.

Quite possibly, but the fact its under question after such a long title reign is nobodys fault but Calzaghes.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:calzaghe's career is so predictable.

2 steps forward then 3 steps back.

least now HBO have him signed up and they won't stand for this crap much longer.

2 steps forward???
when???

nickd wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:He is the best Supermiddle from Britain.

Quite possibly, but the fact its under question after such a long title reign is nobodys fault but Calzaghes.

Exactly. It's all might have beens with him.

As Calzaghe's career draws to a close you have to look back over what he has done, not what he could have done. No ifs, buts, or maybes, his career just doesn't match up to Benns. One defence of a genuine world title is what Joe has achieved. Not good enough if you wish to be considered an all time great.

Protecting a nice unbeaten record seems to be the stock in trade for the management of guys like Calzaghe. The Lacy fight gave him kudos that was revised after time. And rightly so. He is a very talented fighter whose better days may well be in the past and financial/political wrangles have detracted from his undoubted ability that could have been snuffed out with more meaningful fighting options rather than financial gains.

Kessler is his only redemption. And a win would put him in that respectable list of 'unified' champs that you just can't ignore. I just hope it happens next year, but I for one will not be holding my breath.

pundit wrote:

caster wrote:Joe is so underrated and IMO the best fighter this country has ever produced.

Do you mean Wales or Britain?

In the former case: probably not. What about 1910s lightweight champion Freddie Welsh?
In the latter case: most definitely not. Ever heard of Lennox Lewis?

I think in terms of skill and ability caster could well be right. However your quest to ever point out the level of Joe's competition is right also.
I feel as if its his own stupid fvckin fault for not MAKING these fights happen.

nickd wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:He is the best Supermiddle from Britain.

Quite possibly, but the fact its under question after such a long title reign is nobodys fault but Calzaghes.

Only because of the opposition, but I don't see the other world class supermiddles beating him. Hell, none of our Super Middle champs have been as dominant as Calzaghe.

Max Molyneux wrote:

nickd wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:He is the best Supermiddle from Britain.

Quite possibly, but the fact its under question after such a long title reign is nobodys fault but Calzaghes.

Only because of the opposition, but I don't see the other world class supermiddles beating him. Hell, none of our Super Middle champs have been as dominant as Calzaghe.

But they foughts better opposition, I'm sure the rest of the British supermiddles could dominate Pudwill, Ashira etc.

Calzaghe has wasted most of his career fighting nothing fights there is no getting around that however you try and spin it.

And Calzaghe would dominate the ones who could dominate Pudwill.

There are more names than that on his rec.

Max Molyneux wrote:And Calzaghe would dominate the ones who could dominate Pudwill.

There are more names than that on his rec.

None as funny though.

Andy Mac wrote:

pundit wrote:

caster wrote:Joe is so underrated and IMO the best fighter this country has ever produced.

Do you mean Wales or Britain?

In the former case: probably not. What about 1910s lightweight champion Freddie Welsh?
In the latter case: most definitely not. Ever heard of Lennox Lewis?

I think in terms of skill and ability caster could well be right. However your quest to ever point out the level of Joe's competition is right also.
I feel as if its his own stupid fvckin fault for not MAKING these fights happen.

Factor in, Jimmy Wilde, Freddie Welsh, Jim Driscoll and possibly Winstone and Percy Jones and that doesn't make Calzaghe top 5 in Wales - let alone Britain. I do not mean to take anything away from Calzaghe, he's a great fighter but the facts are he is NOT the best Wales, or Britian, has ever produced.

IF Calzaghe had fought and beaten the best opposition around at his time, then he might have a shout at being top 5 in Wales - but he clearly hasn't fought the best around during his reign. The 5 fighters mentioned all fought much better opposition in their day than Calzaghe has, or ever will now.

The whole discussion about him being the best Wales or Britain has ever produced is actually pointless, he would NEVER in a million years surpass Jimmy Wilde.

In my opinion, he's the best British boxer I've seen (but I'm only 41). When I saw him as an amateur I thought he'd be something special.

I think he would beat Kessler and Hopkins, but I agree his record should have been populated with wins over some of the bigger names.

I can understand his Dad's frustrations as I think the British public don't realise just how good this guy is.