Muhammad Ali: The Other End of the Spectrum
Posted: 28 Dec 2006, 03:35
Most boxing fans old and new alike rate Muhammad Ali as the ‘Greatest’ of all time, or at least inside the top three. Bert Sugar ranks Ali at #2 behind Joe Louis, stating that though he felt Ali was the fastest he lacked the power that is expected from Heavyweights.
I myself have huge respect for Muhammad Ali, but I also have a few bones to pick against him as well. There are seldom few who make any threads about Ali that are not in a flattering light, and those who do generally do a lot of trash talk without much backing their claims, this thread however has reasons that Ali wasn’t the invincible fighter that most ‘experts’ make him out to be.
-Muhammad Ali’s speed was his greatest asset, but it was also his greatest mistake. His speed was above and beyond any fighter in his era, this is fact, but as a boxer he was lackluster. He was not a great tactician, he didn’t hit hard and he was a terrible infighter. And though he had great hand speed he was accessible to get hit whenever he threw uppercuts. This makes one assume that because he was so fast he must have felt he did not need to learn the fundamentals.
-Another thing against him was that he was so successful using one particular style that if you could penetrate that style, he would be in the danger zone, because how can you shake off what you are so used to doing? These two examples that I just listed were what helped Joe Frazier beat Muhammad Ali in 1971. Joe knew that if he got low it would force Ali to throw the uppercut, and with his bobbing and weaving pressure style, along with cutting down the ring, he could neutralize Ali’s great speed.
-Just how great was the Ali of the 1960’s? He proved that he was the fastest man in the history of the ring, but little else other than a highly controversial personal life and style. What many don’t know or remember, Ali was knocked down not just by Henry Cooper but by Sonny Banks, a hard hitting converted southpaw back in 1962, though he manages to knock Banks out in the 4th round. Ali was also hurt by such fighters as Charlie Powell with body shots. This shows that though this wasn’t the best Ali he was able to get hurt by body punchers who were muscular and powerful.
-Sonny Liston. Liston did not take Ali at all serious in their first bout, as it was reported that he trained as if the fight was scheduled for four rounds, because he truly believed he could have knocked Ali out in that amount of time. Ali of course goes on to win the title, and in their rematch, which was so full of controversy, from Walcott not being able to get control of the fighters to Nat Fleischer telling Walcott that Liston was down for 20 seconds and so on. It was a mess.
-Liston was quoted as saying in front of the California Boxing Commission: ‘Ali knocked me down with a sharp punch. I didn’t see it, and I went down, but I wasn’t really hurt. Then I saw Ali over me yelling like a nut. Now there is now way to get up from the canvas and not be exposed to a great shot. Ali is waiting to hit me. The ref, Walcott, can’t control him. I have to put one glove on the canvas and get up to one knee. See, as soon as there is daylight between my knee and the canvas, Ali can hit me. And you all know Ali is a nut. You can tell what a normal man is going to do. But you can never tell what a nut is going to do.”
-It is in my opinion that if ANY call should have been made, Ali should have been warned or had points deducted, if not disqualified, for not doing as Walcott instructed and for not letting Liston be able to get up. Sure psychology was apart of Ali’s repertoire but enough is enough. Also, take into consideration that the match held in Lewiston, Maine wasn’t even the original set date for the fight, as Ali had to have a hernia operation and Liston was in top shape as many said he trained harder than he ever had in his career, only to have to retrain until Ali was ready to go.
-Title defenses. You can’t really argue this, but defenses against Karl Mildenberger and Brian London can’t be considered ‘world class’ opposition. Many consider Ali’s peak was against Cleveland Williams, but I disagree considering Williams was not the fighter he once was as he was shot in the guts not too long before, but still packed a wallop. If anything his peak bout was against Zora Folley, which was to be his last title defense before being stripped of the title in 1967.
-Lack of sportsmanship. His battering of Floyd Patterson and Ernie Terrell were some of the most viscous and unprofessional affairs the Heavyweight division ever seen. In the case of the Terrell fight, he thumbed Terrell in the eye breaking his orbital socket as well as trash talking and other dirty tactics, and of course letting the fight go longer than it should have. As evident in most of Ali’s fights he did use thumbing and would often push down on his opponents heads to tire them out, including hitting opponents behind their head.
-Avoiding the better contenders. After facing George Foreman his first defense of his title was against Chuck Wepner who absolutely had NO BUSINESS being in a ring with Ali. When he also opted to face men like Alfredo Evangelista, Richard Dunn, Jean Pierre Coopman, and Leon Spinks than more deserving fighters. [This figure is based on 1975 and beyond].
-Gift decisions. Let’s face it; he was given a win over Jimmy Young. The same can be said, though with not the same conviction, with his ‘wins’ over Ken Norton in their third bout and in his fight with Earnie Shavers [Ali was the only one hurt and Ali ‘won’ two out of the three score cards].
-Too many chances. How can someone be gone for nearly two years and get a shot at the title let alone a top contender? When he returned in 1970 he fought Jerry Quarry who was ranked #2. In 1980 he returns to fight Larry Holmes for the WBC title. Ali in my opinion had too much special treatment during his career, and then after losing terribly to Holmes, he still gets a shot at a top contender in Trevor Berbick, only to lose terribly as well. And what’s worse it was greatly suspected that he had Parkinson’s before he fought Holmes and was still given a license and the shot anyways.
And now for the ‘positives’…
-Who else can say they hold victories over Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Ken Norton? Who can say they were three times the undisputed champion of the world? Who can lay claim to being the most recognized figure on the planet? Who else can say they transcended the sport of boxing? Who can say that for the better part of the 1970’s [the greatest era in Heavyweight history] that they were on top?
Not many. He beat virtually every main star of the 1970’s and 1960’s and in amazing fashion. That alone makes Ali one of the top five greatest Heavyweights of all time, without question.
I myself have huge respect for Muhammad Ali, but I also have a few bones to pick against him as well. There are seldom few who make any threads about Ali that are not in a flattering light, and those who do generally do a lot of trash talk without much backing their claims, this thread however has reasons that Ali wasn’t the invincible fighter that most ‘experts’ make him out to be.
-Muhammad Ali’s speed was his greatest asset, but it was also his greatest mistake. His speed was above and beyond any fighter in his era, this is fact, but as a boxer he was lackluster. He was not a great tactician, he didn’t hit hard and he was a terrible infighter. And though he had great hand speed he was accessible to get hit whenever he threw uppercuts. This makes one assume that because he was so fast he must have felt he did not need to learn the fundamentals.
-Another thing against him was that he was so successful using one particular style that if you could penetrate that style, he would be in the danger zone, because how can you shake off what you are so used to doing? These two examples that I just listed were what helped Joe Frazier beat Muhammad Ali in 1971. Joe knew that if he got low it would force Ali to throw the uppercut, and with his bobbing and weaving pressure style, along with cutting down the ring, he could neutralize Ali’s great speed.
-Just how great was the Ali of the 1960’s? He proved that he was the fastest man in the history of the ring, but little else other than a highly controversial personal life and style. What many don’t know or remember, Ali was knocked down not just by Henry Cooper but by Sonny Banks, a hard hitting converted southpaw back in 1962, though he manages to knock Banks out in the 4th round. Ali was also hurt by such fighters as Charlie Powell with body shots. This shows that though this wasn’t the best Ali he was able to get hurt by body punchers who were muscular and powerful.
-Sonny Liston. Liston did not take Ali at all serious in their first bout, as it was reported that he trained as if the fight was scheduled for four rounds, because he truly believed he could have knocked Ali out in that amount of time. Ali of course goes on to win the title, and in their rematch, which was so full of controversy, from Walcott not being able to get control of the fighters to Nat Fleischer telling Walcott that Liston was down for 20 seconds and so on. It was a mess.
-Liston was quoted as saying in front of the California Boxing Commission: ‘Ali knocked me down with a sharp punch. I didn’t see it, and I went down, but I wasn’t really hurt. Then I saw Ali over me yelling like a nut. Now there is now way to get up from the canvas and not be exposed to a great shot. Ali is waiting to hit me. The ref, Walcott, can’t control him. I have to put one glove on the canvas and get up to one knee. See, as soon as there is daylight between my knee and the canvas, Ali can hit me. And you all know Ali is a nut. You can tell what a normal man is going to do. But you can never tell what a nut is going to do.”
-It is in my opinion that if ANY call should have been made, Ali should have been warned or had points deducted, if not disqualified, for not doing as Walcott instructed and for not letting Liston be able to get up. Sure psychology was apart of Ali’s repertoire but enough is enough. Also, take into consideration that the match held in Lewiston, Maine wasn’t even the original set date for the fight, as Ali had to have a hernia operation and Liston was in top shape as many said he trained harder than he ever had in his career, only to have to retrain until Ali was ready to go.
-Title defenses. You can’t really argue this, but defenses against Karl Mildenberger and Brian London can’t be considered ‘world class’ opposition. Many consider Ali’s peak was against Cleveland Williams, but I disagree considering Williams was not the fighter he once was as he was shot in the guts not too long before, but still packed a wallop. If anything his peak bout was against Zora Folley, which was to be his last title defense before being stripped of the title in 1967.
-Lack of sportsmanship. His battering of Floyd Patterson and Ernie Terrell were some of the most viscous and unprofessional affairs the Heavyweight division ever seen. In the case of the Terrell fight, he thumbed Terrell in the eye breaking his orbital socket as well as trash talking and other dirty tactics, and of course letting the fight go longer than it should have. As evident in most of Ali’s fights he did use thumbing and would often push down on his opponents heads to tire them out, including hitting opponents behind their head.
-Avoiding the better contenders. After facing George Foreman his first defense of his title was against Chuck Wepner who absolutely had NO BUSINESS being in a ring with Ali. When he also opted to face men like Alfredo Evangelista, Richard Dunn, Jean Pierre Coopman, and Leon Spinks than more deserving fighters. [This figure is based on 1975 and beyond].
-Gift decisions. Let’s face it; he was given a win over Jimmy Young. The same can be said, though with not the same conviction, with his ‘wins’ over Ken Norton in their third bout and in his fight with Earnie Shavers [Ali was the only one hurt and Ali ‘won’ two out of the three score cards].
-Too many chances. How can someone be gone for nearly two years and get a shot at the title let alone a top contender? When he returned in 1970 he fought Jerry Quarry who was ranked #2. In 1980 he returns to fight Larry Holmes for the WBC title. Ali in my opinion had too much special treatment during his career, and then after losing terribly to Holmes, he still gets a shot at a top contender in Trevor Berbick, only to lose terribly as well. And what’s worse it was greatly suspected that he had Parkinson’s before he fought Holmes and was still given a license and the shot anyways.
And now for the ‘positives’…
-Who else can say they hold victories over Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Ken Norton? Who can say they were three times the undisputed champion of the world? Who can lay claim to being the most recognized figure on the planet? Who else can say they transcended the sport of boxing? Who can say that for the better part of the 1970’s [the greatest era in Heavyweight history] that they were on top?
Not many. He beat virtually every main star of the 1970’s and 1960’s and in amazing fashion. That alone makes Ali one of the top five greatest Heavyweights of all time, without question.
:P 
Fighters make excuses all of the time when they lose. Almost all of the time they are just that, excuses. This was no exception. ali and Liston could have fought 5 more times and the result would always be the same, Ali would win.
Like who? Who did Ali avoid? He did fight a few journeyman like Evangelista, Dunn etc. So what? He wasn't fighting these guys instead of the best contenders, he was fighting these guys in addition to the best contenders? In in 1976, when Ali was 34, well past his prime, he still defended the title 4 times! And one against Norton and one against Young.