BoxRec

Gerry Cooney usually gets dissed as being a fighter who was as much a creation of the media as he was of racism, but before ‘Gentleman’ Gerry there was another heavyweight who was quite possibly a more ‘manufactured’ fighter than what Cooney was.

In the 1930’s and 1940’s you rarely seen a heavyweight the size of the heavyweights today, but if there ever truly was a giant in that time it was the not so little brother of former champion Max Baer, the towering 6’6” and 250 pound Buddy Bear.

From 1934 to 1941 this man bombed away 44 of 54 opponents, losing only 5 times (one by kayo). His opponents to say the least were mediocre and probably would have had better careers as bus boys as most of them either never fought a single round in their life or had terrible win/loss records such as Salvatore Ruggirello who had 9-30-0 whom Baer blasted out in less than two rounds.

He did however once in a while show promise of something more, as with his 2nd round kayo win over Corn Griffin in 1935. Griffin was a former sparring partner of Primo Carnera’s and reportedly out hustled the ‘Ambling Alp’ in training.

In 1937 he had his biggest victory to date with a 3rd round kayo over Abe Simon and in 1940 he knocked out Nathan Mann in the 7th round, as well as picking up a decision win over Lee Savold. In 1941 however he defeated the wild brawler from New Jersey ‘Two Ton’ Tony Galento by 7th round kayo. Galento was the first man to drop champion Joe Louis during Louis’ title reign and beat the likes of Lou Nova for title contention, until losing to the Baer brothers consecutively.

In 1941 Buddy Baer fought Joe Louis and even managed to knock Louis down in the 1st round, until Baer himself was dropped three times in the 6th. Baer’s manager claimed that the last knock down was after the bell and demanded that Louis be disqualified, a desperation move if there ever was one, but he got his own fighter disqualified because he didn’t get out of the ring.

In 1942 Baer fought Louis again, in what would be his last match. To make sure there was no controversy whatsoever, and with Jack Blackburn being sick, Joe Louis made short work of Buddy Baer and knocked him out in the 1st round. Baer outweighed Louis by 43 and half pounds, being 20 pounds heavier than he was in their first match.

There is an old saying that ‘there are many short cuts to the championship’, Baer was the epitome of this saying. He beat men far smaller than himself, with very little experience or he beat men who were on the downside of their careers, as Galento was.

Note- The majority of Baer’s early bouts were scheduled for no more than six rounds, as many athletic commissions had a rule that any fighter under the age of 21 could not box more than six rounds, else it would be illegal and all those involved would pay a hefty price. Ironically even after he turned 21 he continued on fighting four rounds, six rounds and eight round bouts up until 1940, though he did dabble at 10 rounds on occasion.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:In 1937 he had his biggest victory to date with a 3rd round kayo over Abe Simon and in 1940 he knocked out Nathan Mann in the 7th round, as well as picking up a decision win over Lee Savold. In 1941 however he defeated the wild brawler from New Jersey ‘Two Ton’ Tony Galento by 7th round kayo. Galento was the first man to drop champion Joe Louis during Louis’ title reign and beat the likes of Lou Nova for title contention, until losing to the Baer brothers consecutively.

Yes, Baer fought quite a few bums, but as you noted in this paragraph he also beat a few very good fighters as well. In fact, with wins over Simon, Mann, Savold and Galento he accomplished more than most of the top HWs of the past 20 years. Certainly a better resume than someone like Bowe of Vitali Klitchko.

I always thought Art Aragon was manufactured.

A guy that jumps out is Duane Bobick. But if you take boxing as a whole that is sort of the norm to manufacture contenders and not just in the heaveyweight division but throughout. You can pick any fighter at random and as a general rule he will have a totally impressive record early in his career largly built on fighting inferior opposition. Then when he steps up to a different leavel of opponent the losses start to mount up.

James Quick Tillis was another guy. Undefeated early in his career against inferior opposition but throughout his career as a whole is never able to beat one single contender.

Tex Cobb another guy.

I could go on naming them but my general point has been made.

If you have any old Ring Magazines go through them and look in the new faces section and you will find scores of those types of fighters.

kick asner wrote:A guy that jumps out is Duane Bobick. But if you take boxing as a whole that is sort of the norm to manufacture contenders and not just in the heaveyweight division but throughout. You can pick any fighter at random and as a general rule he will have a totally impressive record early in his career largly built on fighting inferior opposition. Then when he steps up to a different leavel of opponent the losses start to mount up.

James Quick Tillis was another guy. Undefeated early in his career against inferior opposition but throughout his career as a whole is never able to beat one single contender.

Tex Cobb another guy.

I could go on naming them but my general point has been made.

If you have any old Ring Magazines go through them and look in the new faces section and you will find scores of those types of fighters.

One of the most over hyped was Chuck Davey. Gavilan should have been locked up for that one.

In recent times (HW division here), Michael Grant comes to mind. Thrown to the Lion way before he was ready for that level.

kick asner wrote:James Quick Tillis was another guy. Undefeated early in his career against inferior opposition but throughout his career as a whole is never able to beat one single contender.

Tillis had the ability (I think) to compete at the top, but lacked the heart and fortitude. I'd say he was similar to Dominick Guinn in that regard.

Another one perhaps was Herbie Hide. I remember him early in his career being touted as one of the hot up and comers before his chin was exposed.

Lamar Clark

Yeah , Clark may wear the belt in the manufactured contender class.
Tillis had decent ability . I knew him a bit and fought on one of his undercards in Chicago in 1983.
He fought a guy named Leroy Boone. My trainer worked Boones corner.
James should have belted Boone right out of there but it went the distance I believe. Maybe he stopped him late, I cant remember. Anyway, it was classic Tilliss in that the guy just wouldnt take a chance, he just moved constantly. It was clear from the start that he wanted to be like Ali with the dancing.
There was a good amount of hype surrounding him when he started out here in Chicago.
Id say in the long run there was some dissapointment.

Carl Morris
'Bombardier' Billy Wells
Billy Squires
Mac Foster
Duane Bobick
Jorge Luis Gonzales
Billy Fox (virtually his whole career was built on fixed fights)


Another odd tid bit of information on Lamar Clark:

-Tony Burton (yes the same Burton from the Rocky movies) fought Clark
-Lamar Clark still holds the record for most consecutive knockouts (45)
-He was ranked #10 in the world, though the majority of his opponents were guys just making their debut

This thread isn't strictly on HW's, just contenders who were more or less creations of the media and spoon fed a bunch of creme puffs. @ The Billy Fox wasn't a HW comment.


I am not saying that BoxRec is accurate in it's record keeping, take Jem Roche as an example, it appears that his first pro fight was against Tommy Burns for the HW title, but Roche himself was the champion of Ireland and had to of had more bouts.

I'm sure that BoxRec can't account for every single fighter, but it wouldn't surprise me either that if many of Clark's opponents were just guys off the street, just so that he could give the impression that he was an invincible powerhouse of destruction.

There were many many fighters out there in boxing who had just one bout or a handful that have slipped by on the radar---but for those who think this 'tarnishes' Clark's reputation, let's just say that the majority of his opponents were on the level of Butterbean's.

Ed Mahone on a smaller scale.

I was actually thinking about this very thread topic the other day.

Tillis fought Page and Weaver life and death, so I'm surprised he was mentioned here.

I was thinking more along the lines of Jose "The Threat" Baret, although if his own people thought that highly of him then I would think they would've avoided Marlon Starling like sour milk.

How about 80's hyped guys like Gregg "Zion Lion" Edelman or John "The Heat" Verderosa? Or 70's guys like Johnny Boudreaux?

There are so many nowadays, I think you could list almost anyone in the heavyweight Top 20 and you could make a case.

kick asner wrote:A guy that jumps out is Duane Bobick. But if you take boxing as a whole that is sort of the norm to manufacture contenders and not just in the heaveyweight division but throughout. You can pick any fighter at random and as a general rule he will have a totally impressive record early in his career largly built on fighting inferior opposition. Then when he steps up to a different leavel of opponent the losses start to mount up.

James Quick Tillis was another guy. Undefeated early in his career against inferior opposition but throughout his career as a whole is never able to beat one single contender.

Tex Cobb another guy.

I could go on naming them but my general point has been made.

If you have any old Ring Magazines go through them and look in the new faces section and you will find scores of those types of fighters.

James"Quick"Tillis had the ability to be champion, he just froze up in his big chance.Probably could have made history had he beaten Weaver, but then again, may have lost in his first defense against Page (who ironically, he would've fought for the WBA belt had Weaver had been stripped).The fight he did have with Page was good for three, four rounds.

What about THE MAN and future world heavyweight champion AUDLEY HARRISON!!!!

HomicideHenry wrote:Gerry Cooney usually gets dissed as being a fighter who was as much a creation of the media as he was of racism, but before ‘Gentleman’ Gerry there was another heavyweight who was quite possibly a more ‘manufactured’ fighter than what Cooney was.

In the 1930’s and 1940’s you rarely seen a heavyweight the size of the heavyweights today, but if there ever truly was a giant in that time it was the not so little brother of former champion Max Baer, the towering 6’6” and 250 pound Buddy Bear.

From 1934 to 1941 this man bombed away 44 of 54 opponents, losing only 5 times (one by kayo). His opponents to say the least were mediocre and probably would have had better careers as bus boys as most of them either never fought a single round in their life or had terrible win/loss records such as Salvatore Ruggirello who had 9-30-0 whom Baer blasted out in less than two rounds.

He did however once in a while show promise of something more, as with his 2nd round kayo win over Corn Griffin in 1935. Griffin was a former sparring partner of Primo Carnera’s and reportedly out hustled the ‘Ambling Alp’ in training.

In 1937 he had his biggest victory to date with a 3rd round kayo over Abe Simon and in 1940 he knocked out Nathan Mann in the 7th round, as well as picking up a decision win over Lee Savold. In 1941 however he defeated the wild brawler from New Jersey ‘Two Ton’ Tony Galento by 7th round kayo. Galento was the first man to drop champion Joe Louis during Louis’ title reign and beat the likes of Lou Nova for title contention, until losing to the Baer brothers consecutively.

In 1941 Buddy Baer fought Joe Louis and even managed to knock Louis down in the 1st round, until Baer himself was dropped three times in the 6th. Baer’s manager claimed that the last knock down was after the bell and demanded that Louis be disqualified, a desperation move if there ever was one, but he got his own fighter disqualified because he didn’t get out of the ring.

In 1942 Baer fought Louis again, in what would be his last match. To make sure there was no controversy whatsoever, and with Jack Blackburn being sick, Joe Louis made short work of Buddy Baer and knocked him out in the 1st round. Baer outweighed Louis by 43 and half pounds, being 20 pounds heavier than he was in their first match.

There is an old saying that ‘there are many short cuts to the championship’, Baer was the epitome of this saying. He beat men far smaller than himself, with very little experience or he beat men who were on the downside of their careers, as Galento was.

Note- The majority of Baer’s early bouts were scheduled for no more than six rounds, as many athletic commissions had a rule that any fighter under the age of 21 could not box more than six rounds, else it would be illegal and all those involved would pay a hefty price. Ironically even after he turned 21 he continued on fighting four rounds, six rounds and eight round bouts up until 1940, though he did dabble at 10 rounds on occasion.

??? This article really shoots itself in the foot.

So Buddy didn't fight many notables the first couple of years of his career . . .so what?? He was friggin' 19 when he turned pro and did not have an extensive amatuer background.

By his 3rd year he was fighting the likes of Abe Simon and before fighting for the title defeated Savold, Mann (both very good fighters and in their primes) along with Galento (who might have been slightly past it but fought Louis for the title less than 2 years earlier)

That's not a "manufactured" run to the title. Much better than most title contestants today.

HomicideHenry wrote:Gerry Cooney usually gets dissed as being a fighter who was as much a creation of the media as he was of racism, but before ‘Gentleman’ Gerry there was another heavyweight who was quite possibly a more ‘manufactured’ fighter than what Cooney was.

In the 1930’s and 1940’s you rarely seen a heavyweight the size of the heavyweights today, but if there ever truly was a giant in that time it was the not so little brother of former champion Max Baer, the towering 6’6” and 250 pound Buddy Bear.

From 1934 to 1941 this man bombed away 44 of 54 opponents, losing only 5 times (one by kayo). His opponents to say the least were mediocre and probably would have had better careers as bus boys as most of them either never fought a single round in their life or had terrible win/loss records such as Salvatore Ruggirello who had 9-30-0 whom Baer blasted out in less than two rounds.

He did however once in a while show promise of something more, as with his 2nd round kayo win over Corn Griffin in 1935. Griffin was a former sparring partner of Primo Carnera’s and reportedly out hustled the ‘Ambling Alp’ in training.

In 1937 he had his biggest victory to date with a 3rd round kayo over Abe Simon and in 1940 he knocked out Nathan Mann in the 7th round, as well as picking up a decision win over Lee Savold. In 1941 however he defeated the wild brawler from New Jersey ‘Two Ton’ Tony Galento by 7th round kayo. Galento was the first man to drop champion Joe Louis during Louis’ title reign and beat the likes of Lou Nova for title contention, until losing to the Baer brothers consecutively.

In 1941 Buddy Baer fought Joe Louis and even managed to knock Louis down in the 1st round, until Baer himself was dropped three times in the 6th. Baer’s manager claimed that the last knock down was after the bell and demanded that Louis be disqualified, a desperation move if there ever was one, but he got his own fighter disqualified because he didn’t get out of the ring.

In 1942 Baer fought Louis again, in what would be his last match. To make sure there was no controversy whatsoever, and with Jack Blackburn being sick, Joe Louis made short work of Buddy Baer and knocked him out in the 1st round. Baer outweighed Louis by 43 and half pounds, being 20 pounds heavier than he was in their first match.

There is an old saying that ‘there are many short cuts to the championship’, Baer was the epitome of this saying. He beat men far smaller than himself, with very little experience or he beat men who were on the downside of their careers, as Galento was.

Note- The majority of Baer’s early bouts were scheduled for no more than six rounds, as many athletic commissions had a rule that any fighter under the age of 21 could not box more than six rounds, else it would be illegal and all those involved would pay a hefty price. Ironically even after he turned 21 he continued on fighting four rounds, six rounds and eight round bouts up until 1940, though he did dabble at 10 rounds on occasion.

Just a note here, since you're apparently not aware- boxrec is quite an extensive source, but it is very incomplete, especially when it comes to obscure and pre-1960 fighters. In fact, if you look through newspaper records, sometimes you'll notice that a fighter who is listed on boxrec as having been "0-0" is noted to have just won 11 straight or something like that. Most of B. Baer's opponents who are listed on boxrec as "0-0" probably weren't actually making their pro debuts.

i agree MF, but ive had to many beers in me to make a understandable respone

Actually Clark's opposition is probably as bad as shown. Since we have entered everything from the Ring Record Book during his career. Research of Utah papers would be unlikely to turn up much for many opponents, since they had no experience in many cases and were wrestlers.

Manredo Jr was manufactured i would have thought, i doubt he would have got a shot at calzaghe if he never got on the contender prog.

There was a guy here in England called George Collins in the 80's, allegedly allegedly built him up to 30 something and 0 against mostly tomato cans then he got beaten up by Gary Jacobs and Kirkland Laing back to back and disappeared.

...'50s fighter tommy collins.....weighed in between feather and lightweight was built into a tv challange to jimmy carter for the lightweight title. in three rounds he was down something like eleven times....and this match had something to do with the later 3-knockdown rule.

one of his matches on the way to this fight was againsrt willie pep..(not on tv as far as i know of) whom he knocked out and that gave him a big win....although the inner boxing contingent were pretty sure that willie "did business" again in that one.

Richie Melito

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=9039

This fighter of course was in the press a lot at one time due to the court case about fixed fights etc.

The word was Melito didn't now he was being 'protected' and when he found out lost his confidence and desire for the sport.

And if anybody objects please include a list of top fighters he beat and feel free to talk about the fighters who beat him and remember this was a guy who was a fixute on CBS Saturday afternoons in the 70's.