THEN vs. NOW
Posted: 03 Jan 2007, 11:56
Though my computer tournaments and testing on this forum wasn’t the success that I would have hoped it to have been, on average the computer was 9 out of 10 times correct in its simulations between two boxers. I have decided to go with a concept that I had from the original computer tournament that I done which had Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Muhammad Ali as the final three Heavyweight champions of all time.
The concept was that the ‘winner’ of the tournament would be matched up against the champions of today and see how they would have faired in this era of gigantic fighters scaling 6’5” and 245 pounds on average. This time, however, this will not be about weight classes or tournaments, but simply the legends against this generation of boxers.
Instead of doing 1,000 simulations generating a number of times a fighter would ‘win’ and ‘lose’ or ‘draw’, there will simply be but one simulation done of each contest. After that the thread will be open to questions, comments, suggestions and of course thoughts and opinions on the ‘fight’ it’s self and the outcome.
I thought that the first simulated fight on THEN VS. NOW should be a fight that’s not only intriguing but with great significance.
One is a man of tremendous dedication, ferocity and punching prowess. The other is an enigma, a curiosity who has yet to be toppled. Both men are undefeated. One is possibly the most under rated and over rated Heavyweight champion in history, and the other is the largest.
Rocky Marciano vs. Nicolay Valuev…
Rocky Marciano was 49-0 (43) when he retired as the Heavyweight champion in 1955. Since retiring his record as the only undefeated champion at Heavyweight still stands, he is also the hardest hitting Heavyweight champion at 88%, George Foreman himself is 87%.
Marciano’s power, tremendous heart and phenomenal conditioning, along with his deceptive defensive skills was able to dominate the early 1950’s. As champion he defended his title 6x’s against the likes of Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Don Cockell, Roland LaStarza and Archie Moore. Five of the six were by kayo.
Though it can be disputed that his opponents were over-the-hill, it seems unfair that he is judged greatly by this more than any other Heavyweight champion n history. Take for example his bout with Archie Moore, everybody criticizes Marciano for fighting Moore, yet nobody bad mouths Ali for facing Moore who was almost 20 years older than Ali, who was not even two years away from winning the title against Liston.
Joe Louis once said that he himself could never have beaten the ‘Rock’ at any stage in his career. Joe Frazier, Marvin Hagler, George Foreman, Carmen Basilio, Jake LaMotta are just a few famous fighters who ranked Marciano right behind Joe Louis as the greatest Heavyweight champion in history.
Ring Magazine rated him #3 on the All-Time Heavyweight Punchers list. Bert Sugar ranks him #6 on his greatest Heavyweight champions list and Nat Fleischer ranked Marciano at #10 on his own All-Time Heavyweight champion list.
Nicolay Valuev at 7’ and 328 pounds is easily the tallest and heaviest Heavyweight champion in history, though he himself just holds a small portion of the title in the WBA strap. Thus far he has made 2 successful defenses of that title and is undefeated at 45-0 (33), just four fights away from tying Marciano’s long standing 49-0 record.
The closest any Heavyweight champion ever got to the record was Larry Holmes when he was 48-0, only to lose a decision to Light Heavyweight king Michael Spinks. Valuev possesses an 85” reach, compared to Marciano’s diminutive 69” reach.
Though being so much larger than any of the ‘Super Heavyweights’ of today, Valuev is still a question that has yet to be answered. He has seldom fought in the USA, has seldom been in a tough fight, and we have yet to see if he can take a punch, fight backing up and the list goes on and on.
But one thing is for certain; this ‘fight’ is the greatest height and weight disparity in the history of the ring, as Marciano is giving up nearly two feet in height, 141 pounds in weight and 20” in reach. Can Marciano’s bobbing and weaving techniques be able to get inside the reach of Valuev? And even if he gets inside, will he be strong enough to beat the giant around like he done to HOF fighters such as Louis, Charles, Walcott and Moore?
Marciano’s heaviest opponent was 254 pounds in Jerry Jackson and he fought two men who were 6’5” but nowhere near the weight of Heavyweights today. Valuev’s smallest opponent was 5’9”, and that man lost by disqualification because he was at waist height to Valuev and was hitting him on the belt line and lower.
The biggest question, if not concern, is if or when Valuev matches or even beats the 49-0 record that Marciano put up in 1955; will he be better than Marciano, and who could beat Valuev in this era weak in talent?
But enough statistics, figures and hypothetical questions! Let’s ‘settle’ the question once and for all, for all the marbles, money and chalk, who would win between Rocky Marciano and Nicolay Valuev?
Computer Simulation: Marciano vs. Valuev
The following is a ‘script’ generated by the Title Bout simulator game of how a Marciano/Valuev match would have went based on probability…
Fight info: Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA, 1950-11-01, announcer is Don Dunphy, referee is Rudy Ortega, the bout will be scored by the referee and the two judges Beat Haussmann (Switzerland) and Harold Laurens (Curacao), this is not a title bout, the bout is scheduled for 15 rounds, three KD rule is not in effect, save by the bell is in effect, only the referee can stop the fight, mandatory 8 count is not in effect, fight stopped due to an accidental head butt: Tech. Draw through 5/Scorecard after 5, game will check for injuries, game will not adjust ratings for weight class, use judges bias is set to 'use bias rating', Scoring System is 10 Point
In the red corner: Rocky Marciano - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Charley Goldman - Cut Man: Sam Gasher
In the blue corner: Nicolay Valuev - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Eddie Inabagsky - Cut Man: Sam Gasher
Round 1
Time Commentary Points
0:00 We're about to get underway... And there's the bell as Round 1 begins. 0:0
0:08 Nicolay Valuev fires a punch over the jab of Marciano and gets it in for points. 0:2
0:18 Both fighters come into this fight predicting a win... Not that you'd expect anything else. 0:2
0:29 Marciano tries a straight right that's blocked by the gloves of Valuev. 0:2
0:31 Both fighters are flatfooted now. Valuev blasts home a short hook to the body. 0:5
0:40 Marciano tries to push Nicolay Valuev back in an attempt to gain room to punch. 0:5
0:48 Oh!!! Marciano unleashed a crippling right hand to the head! 4:5
0:48 That's the shot Marciano hoped to land! Nicolay Valuev looks bad after that blow! 4:5
0:57 Valuev backs away and hitches up his trunks. 4:5
01:09 Marciano scores with a winging right! Valuev's head turned halfway round with that punch! 8:5
01:09 That blast sent Valuev into the ropes! 8:5
01:18 Both fighters are keeping their distance for the moment. 8:5
01:25 Valuev has Marciano trapped in the lower right neutral corner... 8:5
01:25 Valuev rips off a nice right-left combination to the head. 8:7
01:39 He doesn't connect with the cross. 8:7
01:46 He appears to be trying to load up on his punches. 8:7
01:55 There's a pause in the action as both fighters regroup. 8:7
02:05 Valuev lands a strong hook! 8:11
02:05 Marciano seems to be regrouping after that blow... 8:11
02:14 As high as Marciano is holding his gloves he is leaving his body wide open to a damaging body punch if Valuev takes advantage of it. 8:11
02:18 Marciano is showing Valuev a lot of respect. Probably more than he deserves at this point in the fight. 8:11
02:32 Rocky Marciano suddenly goes southpaw and tries to find an opening. But his punches miss from this side too. Now he goes back to his orthodox stance. 8:11
02:45 Marciano swings...and misses. 8:11
02:52 Valuev has his army of supporters in tow tonight, judging by all the noise they're making. 8:11
03:00 It's a sweet uppercut by Marciano! He snapped Valuev's head straight back with that punch! 12:11
03:00 How is Valuev standing after that? 12:11
03:00 What a great round of boxing as both fighters traded heavy leather. And the crowd is letting the combatants know that they like what they're seeing! 12:12
Round 2
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Marciano is off his stool and waiting for the bell to begin Round 2. 0:0
0:07 Valuev just said something to the referee. I'm not sure if he was angry about something or just making a comment. 0:0
0:15 Rocky Marciano fires a left hand that Nicolay Valuev takes high on the shoulder. 0:0
0:17 Valuev snaps Marciano's head back with a jolting uppercut. 0:3
0:26 Marciano seems to be protecting his body which is leaving his head vulnerable. He doesn't like body shots but I don't know anyone that does. 0:3
0:29 Marciano is forced into his own corner... 0:3
0:33 Valuev lands a hard cross! 0:7
0:33 That punch may have stunned Marciano momentarily. 0:7
0:47 Valuev tries to drop the right hand over the top but Marciano ducks under it. 0:7
0:58 Valuev voluntarily moves onto the ropes. 0:7
01:02 Both fighters are staying cautious, and keeping out of range. 0:7
01:11 Rocky Marciano just misses with a huge shot as Nicolay Valuev chooses the perfect time to suddenly backpedal. 0:7
01:23 Marciano throws a crushing right to Valuev's jaw! 4:7
01:23 Valuev looks stunned! 4:7
01:31 Both fighters ought to be using their jabs more to set up their other punches this round. 4:7
01:38 Marciano pins Valuev in the corner! 4:7
01:42 There's a straight right by Marciano! 8:7
01:42 Valuev is trying to reach for the ropes! His legs have turned to jelly! 8:7
01:52 Valuev steals a quick glance at his corner. 8:7
02:00 Marciano lands a solid uppercut! 13:7
02:00 Marciano made Valuev blink with that shot! 13:7
02:09 The two fighters clinch, throwing feeble punches as they grab a quick breather. Now they back away from each other. 13:7
02:20 Considering the clinch Marciano has on Valuev it looks like he wants to dance with him, not fight him. Nicolay Valuev pushes him away. 13:7
02:38 The two men are circling one another, looking for an opening. 13:7
02:49 OH! Marciano landed the big hook flush! 18:7
02:49 Valuev is staggered… 18:7
02:58 Valuev's corner is shouting at him to stay off the ropes. 18:7
03:00 As the round comes to a close, both fighters continue to wing shots. That was another good round of action. 17:9
Round 3
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Shouts of encouragement for both fighters can be heard as the bell rings for Round 3. 0:0
0:09 It is a good boxing crowd tonight. They know the game and are reacting to every good punch that lands. 0:0
0:13 Marciano lands the jab but comes up short with a second one right behind it. 2:0
0:22 Valuev is covering up to prevent body shots, but he's leaving his chin dangerously unprotected! 2:0
0:30 Marciano pushes Valuev then steps away from him. 2:0
0:39 Marciano lands a devastating uppercut! 7:0
0:39 Valuev appears to be stunned! 7:0
0:49 Valuev takes a half step back as he tries to create some punching room. 7:0
0:52 Valuev moves into the upper corner. 7:0
0:56 Valuev picks off the jab thrown by Marciano. 7:0
0:58 There's a combination of punches from Valuev that score big. 7:3
0:58 Valuev opens a gash Marciano under the right eye with that last punch! 7:3
0:58 A fighter hates to see their own blood anytime, especially this early in the fight. 7:3
01:07 Nicolay Valuev's right eye is swollen. 7:5
01:12 Valuev comes in low. Marciano puts a headlock on him. Ortega knocks Marciano's arm off Valuev's head. 7:5
01:29 Valuev's corner is shouting at him to be more aggressive. He seems to hear but it remains to be seen if he'll follow the advice. 7:5
01:32 The fighters are tied up. Now Marciano works free and lands a hard hook to the head. 10:5
01:46 Marciano drops the right hand flush on Valuev's chin! 15:5
01:46 Valuev is going to need to regroup after that blow... 15:5
01:59 Rocky Marciano misses. He had an opening and whiffed with the punch. 15:5
02:11 Marciano wings a big left hand at Valuev but the latter sidesteps the punch. 15:5
02:18 Valuev is trapped in his own corner... 15:5
02:22 Marciano just delivered a wake-up call!!! He hurt Nicolay Valuev with a sharp combination! 19:5
02:22 Valuev seems to be regrouping after those blows... 19:5
02:31 He retreats into a neutral corner. 19:5
02:36 Marciano lands a smashing cross! 23:5
02:36 Valuev appears shaken by this punch! 23:5
02:49 Marciano fails to connect with that punch. He pushed it out there instead of cutting loose with it. 23:5
03:00 Marciano fires a volley of punches but Valuev was already moving laterally and was out of harm's way by the time Marciano started punching. 23:5
03:00 The bell ending Round 3 sounds and the fighters return to their corners. 24:5
Round 4
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Valuev looks to be in excellent shape as Round 4 gets underway. 0:0
0:08 The crowd is reacting to every punch thrown by these guys, whether it lands or not. 0:0
0:11 Valuev slides into the corner... 0:0
0:16 Oh! That was a straight right by Marciano! 5:0
0:16 Valuev was stopped cold by that punch! 5:0
0:30 There's a hard shot off the top of Valuev's head! 9:0
0:30 Valuev was stopped cold by that blow! 9:0
0:39 Valuev's right eye is badly swollen. 9:0
0:46 Marciano catches Valuev coming in with a sweet uppercut! 13:0
0:46 Valuev was stopped in his tracks by that shot… 13:0
0:55 The two fighters lean on one another. Their arms are free and they should be throwing punches. Now they separate and the action resumes. 13:0
01:05 Marciano lands a crushing cross! 18:0
01:05 Valuev's knee almost touched the canvas… 18:0
01:14 The fighters are jockeying for position as both men try to gain the advantage here in the 4th. 18:0
01:22 Marciano lands a hard jab! 22:0
01:22 That blow connected solidly to the head of Nicolay Valuev. 22:0
01:27 Valuev is offering very little resistance. He's virtually stopped punching, giving Ortega all the reason he needs to stop this contest, if he's so inclined. 22:0
01:31 Valuev moves into a neutral corner. 22:0
01:31 Marciano bangs away with both hands and a nice uppercut finds a home. 24:0
01:41 Marciano doesn't have to look for Valuev this round. He is right there in front of him. 24:0
01:45 Both fighters move to ring center. 24:0
01:50 Nicolay Valuev leaves the jab just short. 24:0
01:57 Both fighters are working the angles, looking to get the upper hand in this contest. 24:0
02:05 Valuev has his arms wrapped around Marciano... Now they separate. Ortega separates the two... 24:0
02:14 The two men continue to measure one another. 24:0
02:25 Marciano lands a thudding shot under Valuev's ribcage and Valuev crumbles like stale bread. He's down on both knees. 24:0
02:28 Ortega stands over Valuev and begins counting... 30:0
02:28 1... 30:0
02:28 Valuev makes it to his feet but his legs look wobbly! He is going to have to call on all his skills to remain in the fight. 30:0
02:28 Ortega waves the two fighters together. 30:0
02:28 Marciano stunned Valuev with that last ripping shot and Marciano's killer instinct has kicked in. This might be his best chance at ending the fight. 30:0
02:37 Marciano lands a tremendous shot under Valuev's ribcage and Valuev crumbles to the canvas. 30:0
02:39 Ortega stands over Valuev and begins the count... 38:0
02:39 1... 38:0
02:40 2... 38:0
02:41 3... 38:0
02:42 4... 38:0
02:43 5... 38:0
02:44 6... 38:0
02:45 7... 38:0
02:46 8... 38:0
02:47 9... 38:0
02:48 10! 38:0
02:48 That's a ten count! Nicolay Valuev is out cold here in round 4. 38:0
Fight Result
Here's Don Dunphy with the call…
Ladies and Gentlemen! The winner by knockout at the 02:48 mark in Round 4 is…
Rocky Marciano!
Score Cards
Beat Haussmann Round Total
Switzerland 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 10 10 10 30
Nicolay Valuev 10 9 9 28
Harold Laurens Round Total
Curacao 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 10 10 10 30
Nicolay Valuev 9 9 9 27
Rudy Ortega Round Total
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 10 10 10 30
Nicolay Valuev 10 9 9 28
Round Totals Round Total
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 30 30 30 90
Nicolay Valuev 29 27 27 83
********************************************************
I'd like to give credit to Ezzard for doing the computer simulation on this fantasy fight. So, opinions, comments, suggestions anyone? Do you think that the simulation is correct in its assumption that Marciano would win by KO in the 4th round? Do you think that it was wrong in picking Marciano? Do you think Valuev would have won?
In my personal opinion, I think that a real-life Valuev-Marciano bout would have went further than four rounds because Rocky was generally a slow starter and with Valuev being so much larger, I think it would take a while before Rocky could find his niche. Maybe a late kayo, 10-12th rounds, if not going the distance. Marciano generally picked up the tempo as the fight would go on and he never stopped punching, so I think he would win over Valuev---whose shown he was hurt by Ruiz, Donald and Barrett a few times.
The concept was that the ‘winner’ of the tournament would be matched up against the champions of today and see how they would have faired in this era of gigantic fighters scaling 6’5” and 245 pounds on average. This time, however, this will not be about weight classes or tournaments, but simply the legends against this generation of boxers.
Instead of doing 1,000 simulations generating a number of times a fighter would ‘win’ and ‘lose’ or ‘draw’, there will simply be but one simulation done of each contest. After that the thread will be open to questions, comments, suggestions and of course thoughts and opinions on the ‘fight’ it’s self and the outcome.
I thought that the first simulated fight on THEN VS. NOW should be a fight that’s not only intriguing but with great significance.
One is a man of tremendous dedication, ferocity and punching prowess. The other is an enigma, a curiosity who has yet to be toppled. Both men are undefeated. One is possibly the most under rated and over rated Heavyweight champion in history, and the other is the largest.
Rocky Marciano vs. Nicolay Valuev…
Rocky Marciano was 49-0 (43) when he retired as the Heavyweight champion in 1955. Since retiring his record as the only undefeated champion at Heavyweight still stands, he is also the hardest hitting Heavyweight champion at 88%, George Foreman himself is 87%.
Marciano’s power, tremendous heart and phenomenal conditioning, along with his deceptive defensive skills was able to dominate the early 1950’s. As champion he defended his title 6x’s against the likes of Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Don Cockell, Roland LaStarza and Archie Moore. Five of the six were by kayo.
Though it can be disputed that his opponents were over-the-hill, it seems unfair that he is judged greatly by this more than any other Heavyweight champion n history. Take for example his bout with Archie Moore, everybody criticizes Marciano for fighting Moore, yet nobody bad mouths Ali for facing Moore who was almost 20 years older than Ali, who was not even two years away from winning the title against Liston.
Joe Louis once said that he himself could never have beaten the ‘Rock’ at any stage in his career. Joe Frazier, Marvin Hagler, George Foreman, Carmen Basilio, Jake LaMotta are just a few famous fighters who ranked Marciano right behind Joe Louis as the greatest Heavyweight champion in history.
Ring Magazine rated him #3 on the All-Time Heavyweight Punchers list. Bert Sugar ranks him #6 on his greatest Heavyweight champions list and Nat Fleischer ranked Marciano at #10 on his own All-Time Heavyweight champion list.
Nicolay Valuev at 7’ and 328 pounds is easily the tallest and heaviest Heavyweight champion in history, though he himself just holds a small portion of the title in the WBA strap. Thus far he has made 2 successful defenses of that title and is undefeated at 45-0 (33), just four fights away from tying Marciano’s long standing 49-0 record.
The closest any Heavyweight champion ever got to the record was Larry Holmes when he was 48-0, only to lose a decision to Light Heavyweight king Michael Spinks. Valuev possesses an 85” reach, compared to Marciano’s diminutive 69” reach.
Though being so much larger than any of the ‘Super Heavyweights’ of today, Valuev is still a question that has yet to be answered. He has seldom fought in the USA, has seldom been in a tough fight, and we have yet to see if he can take a punch, fight backing up and the list goes on and on.
But one thing is for certain; this ‘fight’ is the greatest height and weight disparity in the history of the ring, as Marciano is giving up nearly two feet in height, 141 pounds in weight and 20” in reach. Can Marciano’s bobbing and weaving techniques be able to get inside the reach of Valuev? And even if he gets inside, will he be strong enough to beat the giant around like he done to HOF fighters such as Louis, Charles, Walcott and Moore?
Marciano’s heaviest opponent was 254 pounds in Jerry Jackson and he fought two men who were 6’5” but nowhere near the weight of Heavyweights today. Valuev’s smallest opponent was 5’9”, and that man lost by disqualification because he was at waist height to Valuev and was hitting him on the belt line and lower.
The biggest question, if not concern, is if or when Valuev matches or even beats the 49-0 record that Marciano put up in 1955; will he be better than Marciano, and who could beat Valuev in this era weak in talent?
But enough statistics, figures and hypothetical questions! Let’s ‘settle’ the question once and for all, for all the marbles, money and chalk, who would win between Rocky Marciano and Nicolay Valuev?
Computer Simulation: Marciano vs. Valuev
The following is a ‘script’ generated by the Title Bout simulator game of how a Marciano/Valuev match would have went based on probability…
Fight info: Madison Square Garden, New York, NY, USA, 1950-11-01, announcer is Don Dunphy, referee is Rudy Ortega, the bout will be scored by the referee and the two judges Beat Haussmann (Switzerland) and Harold Laurens (Curacao), this is not a title bout, the bout is scheduled for 15 rounds, three KD rule is not in effect, save by the bell is in effect, only the referee can stop the fight, mandatory 8 count is not in effect, fight stopped due to an accidental head butt: Tech. Draw through 5/Scorecard after 5, game will check for injuries, game will not adjust ratings for weight class, use judges bias is set to 'use bias rating', Scoring System is 10 Point
In the red corner: Rocky Marciano - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Charley Goldman - Cut Man: Sam Gasher
In the blue corner: Nicolay Valuev - Record: 0-0-0 - Career Stage: Prime - Conditioning: Top Condition - Trainer: Eddie Inabagsky - Cut Man: Sam Gasher
Round 1
Time Commentary Points
0:00 We're about to get underway... And there's the bell as Round 1 begins. 0:0
0:08 Nicolay Valuev fires a punch over the jab of Marciano and gets it in for points. 0:2
0:18 Both fighters come into this fight predicting a win... Not that you'd expect anything else. 0:2
0:29 Marciano tries a straight right that's blocked by the gloves of Valuev. 0:2
0:31 Both fighters are flatfooted now. Valuev blasts home a short hook to the body. 0:5
0:40 Marciano tries to push Nicolay Valuev back in an attempt to gain room to punch. 0:5
0:48 Oh!!! Marciano unleashed a crippling right hand to the head! 4:5
0:48 That's the shot Marciano hoped to land! Nicolay Valuev looks bad after that blow! 4:5
0:57 Valuev backs away and hitches up his trunks. 4:5
01:09 Marciano scores with a winging right! Valuev's head turned halfway round with that punch! 8:5
01:09 That blast sent Valuev into the ropes! 8:5
01:18 Both fighters are keeping their distance for the moment. 8:5
01:25 Valuev has Marciano trapped in the lower right neutral corner... 8:5
01:25 Valuev rips off a nice right-left combination to the head. 8:7
01:39 He doesn't connect with the cross. 8:7
01:46 He appears to be trying to load up on his punches. 8:7
01:55 There's a pause in the action as both fighters regroup. 8:7
02:05 Valuev lands a strong hook! 8:11
02:05 Marciano seems to be regrouping after that blow... 8:11
02:14 As high as Marciano is holding his gloves he is leaving his body wide open to a damaging body punch if Valuev takes advantage of it. 8:11
02:18 Marciano is showing Valuev a lot of respect. Probably more than he deserves at this point in the fight. 8:11
02:32 Rocky Marciano suddenly goes southpaw and tries to find an opening. But his punches miss from this side too. Now he goes back to his orthodox stance. 8:11
02:45 Marciano swings...and misses. 8:11
02:52 Valuev has his army of supporters in tow tonight, judging by all the noise they're making. 8:11
03:00 It's a sweet uppercut by Marciano! He snapped Valuev's head straight back with that punch! 12:11
03:00 How is Valuev standing after that? 12:11
03:00 What a great round of boxing as both fighters traded heavy leather. And the crowd is letting the combatants know that they like what they're seeing! 12:12
Round 2
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Marciano is off his stool and waiting for the bell to begin Round 2. 0:0
0:07 Valuev just said something to the referee. I'm not sure if he was angry about something or just making a comment. 0:0
0:15 Rocky Marciano fires a left hand that Nicolay Valuev takes high on the shoulder. 0:0
0:17 Valuev snaps Marciano's head back with a jolting uppercut. 0:3
0:26 Marciano seems to be protecting his body which is leaving his head vulnerable. He doesn't like body shots but I don't know anyone that does. 0:3
0:29 Marciano is forced into his own corner... 0:3
0:33 Valuev lands a hard cross! 0:7
0:33 That punch may have stunned Marciano momentarily. 0:7
0:47 Valuev tries to drop the right hand over the top but Marciano ducks under it. 0:7
0:58 Valuev voluntarily moves onto the ropes. 0:7
01:02 Both fighters are staying cautious, and keeping out of range. 0:7
01:11 Rocky Marciano just misses with a huge shot as Nicolay Valuev chooses the perfect time to suddenly backpedal. 0:7
01:23 Marciano throws a crushing right to Valuev's jaw! 4:7
01:23 Valuev looks stunned! 4:7
01:31 Both fighters ought to be using their jabs more to set up their other punches this round. 4:7
01:38 Marciano pins Valuev in the corner! 4:7
01:42 There's a straight right by Marciano! 8:7
01:42 Valuev is trying to reach for the ropes! His legs have turned to jelly! 8:7
01:52 Valuev steals a quick glance at his corner. 8:7
02:00 Marciano lands a solid uppercut! 13:7
02:00 Marciano made Valuev blink with that shot! 13:7
02:09 The two fighters clinch, throwing feeble punches as they grab a quick breather. Now they back away from each other. 13:7
02:20 Considering the clinch Marciano has on Valuev it looks like he wants to dance with him, not fight him. Nicolay Valuev pushes him away. 13:7
02:38 The two men are circling one another, looking for an opening. 13:7
02:49 OH! Marciano landed the big hook flush! 18:7
02:49 Valuev is staggered… 18:7
02:58 Valuev's corner is shouting at him to stay off the ropes. 18:7
03:00 As the round comes to a close, both fighters continue to wing shots. That was another good round of action. 17:9
Round 3
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Shouts of encouragement for both fighters can be heard as the bell rings for Round 3. 0:0
0:09 It is a good boxing crowd tonight. They know the game and are reacting to every good punch that lands. 0:0
0:13 Marciano lands the jab but comes up short with a second one right behind it. 2:0
0:22 Valuev is covering up to prevent body shots, but he's leaving his chin dangerously unprotected! 2:0
0:30 Marciano pushes Valuev then steps away from him. 2:0
0:39 Marciano lands a devastating uppercut! 7:0
0:39 Valuev appears to be stunned! 7:0
0:49 Valuev takes a half step back as he tries to create some punching room. 7:0
0:52 Valuev moves into the upper corner. 7:0
0:56 Valuev picks off the jab thrown by Marciano. 7:0
0:58 There's a combination of punches from Valuev that score big. 7:3
0:58 Valuev opens a gash Marciano under the right eye with that last punch! 7:3
0:58 A fighter hates to see their own blood anytime, especially this early in the fight. 7:3
01:07 Nicolay Valuev's right eye is swollen. 7:5
01:12 Valuev comes in low. Marciano puts a headlock on him. Ortega knocks Marciano's arm off Valuev's head. 7:5
01:29 Valuev's corner is shouting at him to be more aggressive. He seems to hear but it remains to be seen if he'll follow the advice. 7:5
01:32 The fighters are tied up. Now Marciano works free and lands a hard hook to the head. 10:5
01:46 Marciano drops the right hand flush on Valuev's chin! 15:5
01:46 Valuev is going to need to regroup after that blow... 15:5
01:59 Rocky Marciano misses. He had an opening and whiffed with the punch. 15:5
02:11 Marciano wings a big left hand at Valuev but the latter sidesteps the punch. 15:5
02:18 Valuev is trapped in his own corner... 15:5
02:22 Marciano just delivered a wake-up call!!! He hurt Nicolay Valuev with a sharp combination! 19:5
02:22 Valuev seems to be regrouping after those blows... 19:5
02:31 He retreats into a neutral corner. 19:5
02:36 Marciano lands a smashing cross! 23:5
02:36 Valuev appears shaken by this punch! 23:5
02:49 Marciano fails to connect with that punch. He pushed it out there instead of cutting loose with it. 23:5
03:00 Marciano fires a volley of punches but Valuev was already moving laterally and was out of harm's way by the time Marciano started punching. 23:5
03:00 The bell ending Round 3 sounds and the fighters return to their corners. 24:5
Round 4
Time Commentary Points
0:00 Valuev looks to be in excellent shape as Round 4 gets underway. 0:0
0:08 The crowd is reacting to every punch thrown by these guys, whether it lands or not. 0:0
0:11 Valuev slides into the corner... 0:0
0:16 Oh! That was a straight right by Marciano! 5:0
0:16 Valuev was stopped cold by that punch! 5:0
0:30 There's a hard shot off the top of Valuev's head! 9:0
0:30 Valuev was stopped cold by that blow! 9:0
0:39 Valuev's right eye is badly swollen. 9:0
0:46 Marciano catches Valuev coming in with a sweet uppercut! 13:0
0:46 Valuev was stopped in his tracks by that shot… 13:0
0:55 The two fighters lean on one another. Their arms are free and they should be throwing punches. Now they separate and the action resumes. 13:0
01:05 Marciano lands a crushing cross! 18:0
01:05 Valuev's knee almost touched the canvas… 18:0
01:14 The fighters are jockeying for position as both men try to gain the advantage here in the 4th. 18:0
01:22 Marciano lands a hard jab! 22:0
01:22 That blow connected solidly to the head of Nicolay Valuev. 22:0
01:27 Valuev is offering very little resistance. He's virtually stopped punching, giving Ortega all the reason he needs to stop this contest, if he's so inclined. 22:0
01:31 Valuev moves into a neutral corner. 22:0
01:31 Marciano bangs away with both hands and a nice uppercut finds a home. 24:0
01:41 Marciano doesn't have to look for Valuev this round. He is right there in front of him. 24:0
01:45 Both fighters move to ring center. 24:0
01:50 Nicolay Valuev leaves the jab just short. 24:0
01:57 Both fighters are working the angles, looking to get the upper hand in this contest. 24:0
02:05 Valuev has his arms wrapped around Marciano... Now they separate. Ortega separates the two... 24:0
02:14 The two men continue to measure one another. 24:0
02:25 Marciano lands a thudding shot under Valuev's ribcage and Valuev crumbles like stale bread. He's down on both knees. 24:0
02:28 Ortega stands over Valuev and begins counting... 30:0
02:28 1... 30:0
02:28 Valuev makes it to his feet but his legs look wobbly! He is going to have to call on all his skills to remain in the fight. 30:0
02:28 Ortega waves the two fighters together. 30:0
02:28 Marciano stunned Valuev with that last ripping shot and Marciano's killer instinct has kicked in. This might be his best chance at ending the fight. 30:0
02:37 Marciano lands a tremendous shot under Valuev's ribcage and Valuev crumbles to the canvas. 30:0
02:39 Ortega stands over Valuev and begins the count... 38:0
02:39 1... 38:0
02:40 2... 38:0
02:41 3... 38:0
02:42 4... 38:0
02:43 5... 38:0
02:44 6... 38:0
02:45 7... 38:0
02:46 8... 38:0
02:47 9... 38:0
02:48 10! 38:0
02:48 That's a ten count! Nicolay Valuev is out cold here in round 4. 38:0
Fight Result
Here's Don Dunphy with the call…
Ladies and Gentlemen! The winner by knockout at the 02:48 mark in Round 4 is…
Rocky Marciano!
Score Cards
Beat Haussmann Round Total
Switzerland 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 10 10 10 30
Nicolay Valuev 10 9 9 28
Harold Laurens Round Total
Curacao 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 10 10 10 30
Nicolay Valuev 9 9 9 27
Rudy Ortega Round Total
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 10 10 10 30
Nicolay Valuev 10 9 9 28
Round Totals Round Total
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Rocky Marciano 30 30 30 90
Nicolay Valuev 29 27 27 83
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I'd like to give credit to Ezzard for doing the computer simulation on this fantasy fight. So, opinions, comments, suggestions anyone? Do you think that the simulation is correct in its assumption that Marciano would win by KO in the 4th round? Do you think that it was wrong in picking Marciano? Do you think Valuev would have won?
In my personal opinion, I think that a real-life Valuev-Marciano bout would have went further than four rounds because Rocky was generally a slow starter and with Valuev being so much larger, I think it would take a while before Rocky could find his niche. Maybe a late kayo, 10-12th rounds, if not going the distance. Marciano generally picked up the tempo as the fight would go on and he never stopped punching, so I think he would win over Valuev---whose shown he was hurt by Ruiz, Donald and Barrett a few times.