BoxRec

I spotted Denis Waterman on TV the other evening and got to thinking about his brother Peter. Can someone remind me what were the circumstances that made him retire from the ring...? Was it a bad beating in his last fight against Dave Charnley??

Also I notice on BOXREC that his "date of death" isn't recorded, but I think it's early 1986. I seem to recall that his health had failed quite badly, but I'm not sure if that was boxing related.

Any info appreciated.

J

Despairing of getting any replies, did a bit of searching. According to one post Charnley had "an intense dislike" for Waterman and took it out on him in the fight. But that's as far as the poster goes. Any update...??

J

If I remember correctly Waterman suffered some form of blood clot or head injury during the Charnley fight and had an emergency operation, he survived it but obviously could never fight again and I think was left with some physical impairments afterwards. I'm not sure if his injuries contributed to his death. Theres quite a bit on Peter and his career in Dennis Watermans autobiography, which I cant recall the name of now.
The thing about Peter is that he was an extremely talented fighter but was pushed along extremely fast and had a lot of tough fights too early, much like Terry Spinks of the same era... Peter was still only 21 or so when his career was ended... having read Boxing News reviews of his fights its interesting that he showed a marked deterioration in his ring performances in his fights leading up to the Charnley fight... sad case of burn out it seems...

Thanks Silkov.... I vaguely recall that he was unable to fight on as a direct result of the Charnley fight and that he had been in fragile health for a long time. I'll see if I can track down Denis's book on Amazon or others.

Regards, J

Dennis Waterman didn't attend his funeral.

john2345 wrote:Thanks Silkov.... I vaguely recall that he was unable to fight on as a direct result of the Charnley fight and that he had been in fragile health for a long time. I'll see if I can track down Denis's book on Amazon or others.

Regards, J

Dennis book is not very helpful as it only touches on the subject and refers to Charnley as the middleweight champion when he was the Lightweight champion.

Whilst Dennis career was at its peak his brother was alcoholic destitute.

A sad tale

Wasn't he on the 1952 Olympic squad along with Sir Henry Cooper?

Boxingmad wrote:Wasn't he on the 1952 Olympic squad along with Sir Henry Cooper?

Yes, along with (amongst others) Dai Dower and Percy Lewis.

J

bennie wrote:Dennis Waterman didn't attend his funeral.

What his own brothers?

I did hear that Dennis shunned him when he needed money, but I didnt know it was that bad.

In his book Dennis states how he idolised his older brother.

Pete beat Kid Gavilan didnt he.

It was common knowledge they never get on. Jealousy, probably. Peter was in the limelight, which the young Dennis was jealous of, then Peter's life was messed up and Dennis took the limelight.
Also, Peter was an intensely proud man who would never have sought any charity off his brother. Peter was so independent (always impeccably dressed, etc), he probably didn't even communicate with Dennis. Moreover, Dennis was such a big star when Peter died (due to Minder of course), his absence at the funeral was glaring and more was made of it than there probably was.
Incidentally, Peter's brain condition had absolutely nothing to do with the Dave Charnley defeat (nor were he and Charnley enemies, just rivals). Obviously boxing didn't help, but it was an hereditary condition, followed by a botched operation, that ended his boxing career and led to his disabilities.
But he still worked for a living, was a fine boxing writer (for various publications) and didn't deserve what life threw at him.

bennie wrote:It was common knowledge they never get on. Jealousy, probably. Peter was in the limelight, which the young Dennis was jealous of, then Peter's life was messed up and Dennis took the limelight.
Also, Peter was an intensely proud man who would never have sought any charity off his brother. Peter was so independent (always impeccably dressed, etc), he probably didn't even communicate with Dennis. Moreover, Dennis was such a big star when Peter died (due to Minder of course), his absence at the funeral was glaring and more was made of it than there probably was.
Incidentally, Peter's brain condition had absolutely nothing to do with the Dave Charnley defeat (nor were he and Charnley enemies, just rivals). Obviously boxing didn't help, but it was an hereditary condition, followed by a botched operation, that ended his boxing career and led to his disabilities.
But he still worked for a living, was a fine boxing writer (for various publications) and didn't deserve what life threw at him.

Thanks for that update, Bennie.... in the words of the song... "It's all coming back to me now!".... I remember Waterman's rise and the two Gavilan fights, then the Charnley defeat but then he just faded off my radar so to speak. I think he was also lumbered by the press with the title of "best educated boxer ever to win a British title" as he had one or more "O" Levels.

It's a real shame the way things turned out for him.

J

john2345 wrote:

bennie wrote:It was common knowledge they never get on. Jealousy, probably. Peter was in the limelight, which the young Dennis was jealous of, then Peter's life was messed up and Dennis took the limelight.
Also, Peter was an intensely proud man who would never have sought any charity off his brother. Peter was so independent (always impeccably dressed, etc), he probably didn't even communicate with Dennis. Moreover, Dennis was such a big star when Peter died (due to Minder of course), his absence at the funeral was glaring and more was made of it than there probably was.
Incidentally, Peter's brain condition had absolutely nothing to do with the Dave Charnley defeat (nor were he and Charnley enemies, just rivals). Obviously boxing didn't help, but it was an hereditary condition, followed by a botched operation, that ended his boxing career and led to his disabilities.
But he still worked for a living, was a fine boxing writer (for various publications) and didn't deserve what life threw at him.

Thanks for that update, Bennie.... in the words of the song... "It's all coming back to me now!".... I remember Waterman's rise and the two Gavilan fights, then the Charnley defeat but then he just faded off my radar so to speak. I think he was also lumbered by the press with the title of "best educated boxer ever to win a British title" as he had one or more "O" Levels.

It's a real shame the way things turned out for him.

J

When I say, hereditary condition, it was more genetic. Then they carried out a barbaric brain operation and ruined him.

bennie wrote:

john2345 wrote:

bennie wrote:It was common knowledge they never get on. Jealousy, probably. Peter was in the limelight, which the young Dennis was jealous of, then Peter's life was messed up and Dennis took the limelight.
Also, Peter was an intensely proud man who would never have sought any charity off his brother. Peter was so independent (always impeccably dressed, etc), he probably didn't even communicate with Dennis. Moreover, Dennis was such a big star when Peter died (due to Minder of course), his absence at the funeral was glaring and more was made of it than there probably was.
Incidentally, Peter's brain condition had absolutely nothing to do with the Dave Charnley defeat (nor were he and Charnley enemies, just rivals). Obviously boxing didn't help, but it was an hereditary condition, followed by a botched operation, that ended his boxing career and led to his disabilities.
But he still worked for a living, was a fine boxing writer (for various publications) and didn't deserve what life threw at him.

Thanks for that update, Bennie.... in the words of the song... "It's all coming back to me now!".... I remember Waterman's rise and the two Gavilan fights, then the Charnley defeat but then he just faded off my radar so to speak. I think he was also lumbered by the press with the title of "best educated boxer ever to win a British title" as he had one or more "O" Levels.

It's a real shame the way things turned out for him.

J

When I say, hereditary condition, it was more genetic. Then they carried out a barbaric brain operation and ruined him.

Didnt he have a brain operation after the Charnley fight?.... thats what I seem to recall Dennis Waterman saying in his book....