BoxRec

I'm ready to ruffle some feathers. (Not that it hasn't been said before).

Mike Tyson.

For those that disagree, just dodge a few punches with Lil' Mac.

Dangit!!!

Go ahead. Give me the padlock.

Yeah, theres still some that belive Mikey was the 'greatest'... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marcinao.... 8)

I wouldn't exactly say Rocky is overrated silk just by a few if you catch my drift anyway Mike Tyson, Trinidad and Ike Ibeabuchi!

I think Prince Naseem Hamed.
Dec, you believe Ali is the best heavyweight of alltime, hence the actual best fighter that ever lived on a head to head basis, yet you believe he is overrated. All because of a fictitious p4p rating that nobody could ever possibly prove??, that's clever alright!!!

Decagon wrote:Muhammad Ali. While he gets my nod as the greatest heavyweight of all time (and therefore the greatest boxer of all time on a pure level), I don't know about calling him the greatest of all time, pound-for-pound. Worse yet, some idiots think that he invented rap, as well.

I'm sorry mate but your comments are totally illogical, if Ali was the 'greatest' heavyweight of them all (which he certainly was) then he certainly merits mention as one of the greatest p4p as well of all time and to say otherwise is just pure sillyness!...

silkov wrote:... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marciano.... 8)

What more could Marciano have achieved to satisfy you?

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:

silkov wrote:... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marciano.... 8)

What more could Marciano have achieved to satisfy you?

It's not about what he or any other boxer achieved that makes him/them overrated it's the way in which forum members/media regard the man.

You can be the greatest ever and be overrated. You can be the worst fighter ever and be underrated. It's the gap between what the fighter was, and how they are perceived.

Ezzard wrote:

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:

silkov wrote:... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marciano.... 8)

What more could Marciano have achieved to satisfy you?

It's not about what he or any other boxer achieved that makes him/them overrated it's the way in which forum members/media regard the man.

You can be the greatest ever and be overrated. You can be the worst fighter ever and be underrated. It's the gap between what the fighter was, and how they are perceived.

Agreed. But why would fighters like Marciano, or Tyson be considered the MOST over rated of all-time? Most ratings I see have both in the 6-20 range in the AT HW ratings, with very few rating either in the top 5, so the consensus appears to be in the 6-20 range which seems quite reasonable. Many now seem to put Liston in the top 5 which I would consider to be over-rated, since he probably belongs in the 6-20 range as well. But I don’t think I would say he is the MOST over-rated of all-time.

Of course, any one of the three are behind the A list of Ali and Louis, so maybe none of them could really be considered over-rated as long as they aren’t rated 1 or 2.

It's not that Ali, Tyson and Marciano weren't great fighters. Obviously they were. It's that the aura around them has been blown up so much that it would be impossible for them, or anybody for that matter, to keep up with it. Therefore making them overrated.

Prince Naseem Hamed ,went to America got beat in the first truly even fight of his career and couldnt handle it , a truly truly overated bully. By the way how anyone can say Ali is overated takes my breath away, the man was simply awesome!

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:

silkov wrote:... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marciano.... 8)

What more could Marciano have achieved to satisfy you?

What did he really do?... aside from being unbeaten he only fought about 6 or 7 world class fighters, (most of them when he was champ) and most of them were over 35 and past their best and/or natural light-heavies... Rocky deserves respect for his guts and strength but at the end of the day the assumption that he was one of the great heavyweights is wrong imo... his record pales in comparison to the likes of Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Foreman, Liston and Frazier.... but say that to many and they will act like you're running down the Pope.... he would have been just another contender had he been round in the 60s or 70s...

icejack wrote:Prince Naseem Hamed ,went to America got beat in the first truly even fight of his career and couldnt handle it , a truly truly overated bully. By the way how anyone can say Ali is overated takes my breath away, the man was simply awesome!

I dont like Hamed myself but to say that he never fought noone aside from Barrera is silly, Medina, Johnson, Kelly, Mccullocgh, Ingle... Medina is still in the mix, Kelley and Muccullocgh (spelling ) went on to fight Morales.... Hamed was overrated to an extent but he was still a great talent and fought some good fighters, trouble is his head got too big and he imploded...

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:

silkov wrote:... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marciano.... 8)

What more could Marciano have achieved to satisfy you?

Ok, first off; I asked the above question as Silk had based his opinion on Marciano's achievements and personally I thought Marciano pretty much acheived all he could. To deem him over-rated didn't make sense which is why I asked the question.

I think I understand now that the whole persona makes up whether a boxer is deemed over/under-rated. Example being that 'undefeated' and '49-0' always hang over Marciano's achievements...Am I right???

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:

silkov wrote:... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marciano.... 8)

What more could Marciano have achieved to satisfy you?

Ok, first off; I asked the above question as Silk had based his opinion on Marciano's achievements and personally I thought Marciano pretty much acheived all he could. To deem him over-rated didn't make sense which is why I asked the question.

I think I understand now that the whole persona makes up whether a boxer is deemed over/under-rated. Example being that 'undefeated' and '49-0' always hang over Marciano's achievements...Am I right???

I dont really understand what your saying I'm afraid.... by underrated I mean people discussing how Marcinao would have beaten Ali or Holmes etc when in reality he wouldnt have had a chance against either of them imo.... or just comparing the three, Ali and Holmes made about 45+ world title defences between them, Marcinao made 6... both Ali and Holmes fought more world class opposition in their nontitle fights than Marcinao faced in his whole career. Marciano being unbeaten is always bandied about but he was one of the best managed champs ever and didnt really face top opposition till he won the title, his being unbeaten has left some beliveing that he was much better than he was...

Guys like Hector Camocho and Tim Witherspoon were rated high by alot of people based on what they could have done so I say them. In his day Ray mancinni was overated but time has brought him back to the pack.

Their are two types of overated, one is a guy was overated in the era which he fought and the other is from a historical perspective.

Witherspoon was a very good fighter though, one of the best of his era even though he hardly trained.... noone ever says he was one of the greats or could have beaten Ali etc... but at his best he would have probably have beaten Marcinao....

Few people of Marcianos era regarded him as a 'great' champion... in some articles of the time its obvious that he was regarded as a bit of a journeyman champion... Patterson was regarded much higher as a fighter at the start of his reign....

silkov wrote:

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:

silkov wrote:... another champion that has long been overrated beyond his achievements imo is Rocky Marciano.... 8)

What more could Marciano have achieved to satisfy you?

What did he really do?... aside from being unbeaten he only fought about 6 or 7 world class fighters, (most of them when he was champ) and most of them were over 35 and past their best and/or natural light-heavies... Rocky deserves respect for his guts and strength but at the end of the day the assumption that he was one of the great heavyweights is wrong imo... his record pales in comparison to the likes of Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes, Foreman, Liston and Frazier.... but say that to many and they will act like you're running down the Pope....

Again though, the question is the same. What more could Marciano achieved?

Within his era and reign as champ, Marciano could not have achieved more. He had nobody esle to fight, he was only 185/7 pounds himself so his opponents can only have been a similar weight or more. As for age, Walcott, Charles and Louis all proved that they could cut it with the younger and bigger heavies around at the time and so did Marciano. Don't forget that Walcott finally won the title at his 5th attempt (getting better in age), he was clearly handling Marciano and way ahead on points before Marciano summened the KO. Charles was in such good form that he took Marciano 15 rounds (the only boxer to do so) and Louis had re-found his hunger and form.

My question now is what if Ali/Louis/Holmes/etc...was around in the era instead of Marciano and they were the ones that finished undefeated and 49-0, with the competition that was around ay the time, would they be so clearly dismissed and thought of as so over-rated that it's beyond a joke, and actually makes them appear under-rated!

'Rocket'Rigby wrote:
Again though, the question is the same. What more could Marciano achieved?

Avoid being outboxed for 12 rounds by an old Jersey Joe Walcott. Beat an over-the-hill Ezzard Charles more convincingly.

I actualy think Marciano's competition was decent. But he was never head and shoulders above his contemporaries as Ali, Louis, Holmes, Johnson were, even though he managed to beat them all. Consequently he doesn't belong quite into first layer of ATG heayweights. Second layer -- OK.

Cheers
P

sorry but larry had enough problems of his own.very tough fights with norton,weaver,witherspoon and williams as well as lots of very poor challengers on top of never meeting the likes of dokes,coetzee and page.i'd say that rocky did at least as much in his era as larry.

dalek wrote:sorry but larry had enough problems of his own.very tough fights with norton,weaver,witherspoon and williams as well as lots of very poor challengers on top of never meeting the likes of dokes,coetzee and page.i'd say that rocky did at least as much in his era as larry.

Point taken. He rule for a longer period though.

silkov wrote:

icejack wrote:Prince Naseem Hamed ,went to America got beat in the first truly even fight of his career and couldnt handle it , a truly truly overated bully. By the way how anyone can say Ali is overated takes my breath away, the man was simply awesome!

I dont like Hamed myself but to say that he never fought noone aside from Barrera is silly, Medina, Johnson, Kelly, Mccullocgh, Ingle... Medina is still in the mix, Kelley and Muccullocgh (spelling ) went on to fight Morales.... Hamed was overrated to an extent but he was still a great talent and fought some good fighters, trouble is his head got too big and he imploded...

Not saying he didnt fight some "decent" (not great) fighters ,but most of them guys were on the slide (kelly , Mccullocgh),the others were ok but not great.The whole thing is relative ,some here are saying Marciano was over rated who was the undisputed heavyweight champ,As you live in London you will know Hamad was massivly hyped up in England ,I just feel for a guy who never held a real title and only fought one "even" fight,got beat and never wanted anymore of Barrera he is overated.I admit I couldnt stand the bloke,and wanted to see him smashed but Warren always made sure everything was in his favour (smaller guys going up in weight to fight him,older guys ect)he was floored several times against average types,sorry Silky ,I JUST DONT RATE HIM!!

icejack wrote:Not saying he didnt fight some "decent" (not great) fighters ,but most of them guys were on the slide (kelly , Mccullocgh),the others were ok but not great.The whole thing is relative ,some here are saying Marciano was over rated who was the undisputed heavyweight champ,As you live in London you will know Hamad was massivly hyped up in England ,I just feel for a guy who never held a real title and only fought one "even" fight,got beat and never wanted anymore of Barrera he is overated.I admit I couldnt stand the bloke,and wanted to see him smashed but Warren always made sure everything was in his favour (smaller guys going up in weight to fight him,older guys ect)he was floored several times against average types,sorry Silky ,I JUST DONT RATE HIM!!

Naz was probably overrated during his career, but not any longer, particularly not in the US