BoxRec

At least in the refight Bowe looked trimmer and fitter than in the third Holyfield bout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNW5lpa_ehM

Golota had Bowe's number while Holyfield did not, that's all.

P

It wasn't the last time he would do something stupid like that

Grant and Tyson had his number too I still don't know how someone can quit like that even though they were dominating fights "Grant,Bowe..His a disgrace to the sport

Decagon wrote:It must be something in that Eastern European blood. Vitali quit against Byrd...

Vitali didn't quit against Byrd. He was beating the *** out of him before he was pulled out with an injury (that would require surgery). Pulling out was a smart move by Klitschko career-wise, Byrd can't be given any credit for that. Happy now?

Decagon wrote:It must be something in that Eastern European blood. Vitali quit against Byrd...

Try telling Fedor or Cro Cop that

wouter
Editor



Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 2053
Location: Groningen, Netherlands
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:31 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Decagon wrote:
It must be something in that Eastern European blood. Vitali quit against Byrd...


Vitali didn't quit against Byrd. He was beating the *** out of him before he was pulled out with an injury (that would require surgery). Pulling out was a smart move by Klitschko career-wise, Byrd can't be given any credit for that. Happy now?

Oh Please !
Abraham fought the better part of a fight with a broken jaw and a broken bone in his face, and Mesi fought a round and a half with a brain injury.
The fact is, Byrd, while fighting with little offense, was going to make Vitali go the distance, and Vitali was running on fumes when he quit.

pundit wrote:At least in the refight Bowe looked trimmer and fitter than in the third Holyfield bout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNW5lpa_ehM

Golota had Bowe's number while Holyfield did not, that's all.

P

The number that Golota had in regard to Bowe was 0-2.

Ambling Alp wrote:

pundit wrote:At least in the refight Bowe looked trimmer and fitter than in the third Holyfield bout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNW5lpa_ehM

Golota had Bowe's number while Holyfield did not, that's all.

P

The number that Golota had in regard to Bowe was 0-2.

Because he was and is a nuthead.

But as long as he boxed he made minced meat out of an in-shape Bowe -- just look at round 2 or round 5.

Holyfield did not even come close to doing comparable damage.

Whether or not you think Bowe in his prime could've beaten Golota or not, the fact is Bowe was extremely weight drained in the rematch. He had lost way too much weight too quickly and in the wrong way. He weighs 235, but he looks incredibly gaunt, skinny, and just plain sunken in compared to his muscular, trim 235 in Holyfield 1. His performance also spoke of this, as he was gassed by the 4th round.

dempseyfire wrote:Whether or not you think Bowe in his prime could've beaten Golota or not, the fact is Bowe was extremely weight drained in the rematch. He had lost way too much weight too quickly and in the wrong way. He weighs 235, but he looks incredibly gaunt, skinny, and just plain sunken in compared to his muscular, trim 235 in Holyfield 1. His performance also spoke of this, as he was gassed by the 4th round.

In the first Golota fight (252) Bowe was allegedly too fat, in the second (235) too weight-drained.

What's the weight at which he could have beaten Golota, then?

Decagon wrote:

dr_devious wrote:

Decagon wrote:It must be something in that Eastern European blood. Vitali quit against Byrd...

Try telling Fedor or Cro Cop that

Well, Filipovich did quit against Nogueira, and he quit PRIDE to get away from Fedor.

Keep on trolling Rubio

Decagon wrote:

pundit wrote:In the first Golota fight (252) Bowe was allegedly too fat, in the second (235) too weight-drained.

What's the weight at which he could have beaten Golota, then?

Well, Bowe beat Golota when he weighed 252, and he beat Golota when he weighed 235, so I guess the answer would be: "Any weight between 235 and 252."

In this case I like your math.

Decagon wrote:

pundit wrote:In the first Golota fight (252) Bowe was allegedly too fat, in the second (235) too weight-drained.

What's the weight at which he could have beaten Golota, then?

Well, Bowe beat Golota when he weighed 252, and he beat Golota when he weighed 235, so I guess the answer would be: "Any weight between 235 and 252."

Yep. Bowe at 236 or 251 pounds would have blown Golota apart.

There are excuses, there are lame excuses, and there are excusses of this sort.

Surely Schemling would have knocked Louis out again in 1938l had he come in trim an fit at 192 pounds as in the first fight, and not out of shape at 193.

pundit wrote:

Decagon wrote:

pundit wrote:In the first Golota fight (252) Bowe was allegedly too fat, in the second (235) too weight-drained.

What's the weight at which he could have beaten Golota, then?

Well, Bowe beat Golota when he weighed 252, and he beat Golota when he weighed 235, so I guess the answer would be: "Any weight between 235 and 252."

Yep. Bowe at 236 or 251 pounds would have blown Golota apart.

There are excuses, there are lame excuses, and there are excusses of this sort.

Surely Schemling would have knocked Louis out again in 1938l had he come in trim an fit at 192 pounds as in the first fight, and not out of shape at 193.

precisely!!

BoxBuzz wrote:

pundit wrote:

Decagon wrote:Well, Bowe beat Golota when he weighed 252, and he beat Golota when he weighed 235, so I guess the answer would be: "Any weight between 235 and 252."

Yep. Bowe at 236 or 251 pounds would have blown Golota apart.

There are excuses, there are lame excuses, and there are excusses of this sort.

Surely Schemling would have knocked Louis out again in 1938l had he come in trim an fit at 192 pounds as in the first fight, and not out of shape at 193.

precisely!!

Let's shake hands over this.

It's pretty obvious by the watching the Golota fights that this isn't the normal Riddick Bowe performance. If Bowe would have fought like this against Holyfield he would have been stopped. Bowe was well below form against Golota. He deserves to be criticized for this and should held against him when rating him.
However, at least he hung in (after being blatantly fouled repeatedly) and won the fight. This isn't as embarrassing as getting knocked out by say Buster Douglas, or even far worse by the legendary Gypsey Daniels.

Ambling Alp wrote:It's pretty obvious by the watching the Golota fights that this isn't the normal Riddick Bowe performance. If Bowe would have fought like this against Holyfield he would have been stopped. Bowe was well below form against Golota. He deserves to be criticized for this and should held against him when rating him.
However, at least he hung in (after being blatantly fouled repeatedly) and won the fight. This isn't as embarrassing as getting knocked out by say Buster Douglas, or even far worse by the legendary Gypsey Daniels.

who did daniels knock out alp?
i`ve just read a story about a liverpool born promoter called james `the man of a few million words` j. johnston who liked to give his fighters an `angle` to whip up interest.
he managed a south african heavy called george rodel but promoted him as `boer` rodel, hero of the seige of ladysmith, and had promotional photo`s of rodel taken complete with bush hat and boer style ammo belts slung across his chest. the fact rodel was a little kid when the boer war was on didnt worry the resourceful johnston too much.
johnston also managed a swarthy welsh light heavy called danny thomas.
he made thomas wear big gold ear rings and a bandana and introduced him to the world as gypsy daniels.
he sounds quite a colourful character does johnston.

Ambling Alp wrote:It's pretty obvious by the watching the Golota fights that this isn't the normal Riddick Bowe performance. If Bowe would have fought like this against Holyfield he would have been stopped. Bowe was well below form against Golota. He deserves to be criticized for this and should held against him when rating him.
However, at least he hung in (after being blatantly fouled repeatedly) and won the fight. This isn't as embarrassing as getting knocked out by say Buster Douglas, or even far worse by the legendary Gypsey Daniels.

Prime Bowe had come in at 235 and at 247 before, hence 235 and 252 were not out of range for him, or at least not by much. But since he won the other fights noone had taken issue with his weight then.

I doubt Riddick Bowe was that far off his best when he fought Golota. Rather, for the first time in his career he was faced with an opponent who matched him in size and strength and whose style did not suit him, partly because Golota knew how to neutualize Bowe's jab. If Golota had killer instinct he would have taken out Bowe early in both fights.

Guess I have to disagree that Bowe wasn't far from his best against Golota. He seemed to me to be way off. Golota does deserve some credit, but it certainly seems that Bowe was anything but sharp.
That a fighter weighs his normal amount doesn't necessary mean he is good boxing shape. (ie, Ali weighed less in 1980 against Holmes than he did against Frazier in 1975.)

To a certain degree some of Bowe's poor performance in both of the Golota fights was the fact that he was fouled badly and often. Bowe was hit low several times. That has to have an affect on a fight. I'm not talking about borderline low blows that really don't hurt, but punches that land far enough south of the border to really hurt.

I don't think it was Golota's lack of of killer instinct that prevented him from knocking out Bowe. Watch the video again. In the 2nd round of the 2nd fight, he has over 2 minutes to put Bowe away. He went right after him and tried to put Bowe away. Golota threw a lot of punches with bad intentions. Bowe showed heart and brains to get through the round.
The knockdown in the 5th round Golota had almost a minute to put Bowe away and again he tried to go after Bowe, but somehow Bowe managed to hang on.

Ambling Alp wrote:Guess I have to diagree that Bowe wasn't far from his best against Golota. He seemed to me to be way off. Golota does deserve some credit, but it certainly seems that Bowe was anything but sharp.

One can make this point for fight 1 but not for fight 2, where Bowe did everything possible to get in shape. And yet Golota hit him from pillar to post all over again.

As I mentioned in my previous post, just because a fighter is at a good weight doesn't mean that he is good boxing condition. It's pretty obvious that Bowe's timing is off, he is more wild than usual, and he doesn't seem to have a lot of stamina.

Decagon wrote:Bowe had Golota's number. That's why Golota quit like the bitch he is.

What fight was you watching? Golota is mad ,we all agree ,but get real ,Golota put Bowe on the shelf,yes he got disqualified and might be 0-2 but he destroyed Bowe!

pundit wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:Guess I have to diagree that Bowe wasn't far from his best against Golota. He seemed to me to be way off. Golota does deserve some credit, but it certainly seems that Bowe was anything but sharp.

One can make this point for fight 1 but not for fight 2, where Bowe did everything possible to get in shape. And yet Golota hit him from pillar to post all over again.

You clearly want to believe that Bowe was in top form in the rematch . . .face the facts, look at the fight. Bowe looked awful, winging wide punches, no combinations on the inside, no sharp straight punches, awful stamina. It was no secret. There was lots of talk inside Bowe's camp that he had taken off the weight too quickly, and overtrained.

With respect ,you miss my point,After Golota got through with Bowe he was finished as a top heavyweight,cant say with any honesty if the Holyfield fight was the one that did it ,I do know Bowe had the tools to beat Holyfield.In two fights he never looked like he could handle Golota.Always remember the headline in the London Times about Golota "The most frightening white heavyweight since Marciano!",and at that time he was. The guy has got something of the bully about him (Golota agreed) but it still dont take away the fact he butchered Bowe and shocked America.This was the first time a Europeon fighter (in my memory) had gone to America and beat the American at his own game (rough stuff!).Marciano got away with dirty tricks for years,Europeons were considered easy stuff at heavy,This fight along with Lennox Lewis's reign was the beggining of Americas decline at heavy and the emergence of a powerful Europeon presence at heavyweight.Not saying its what true boxing is about or Golota was a world beater,just this , it was shocking to see how much he dominated Bowe over the two fights and how badly Bowe was hammered.

Would add Bowe showed fantastic bravery to keep going in those fights