BoxRec

Since Rocky was essentially a Cruiser,and Holyfied won this title,what if they fought at this weight?Not when Holyfield moved up,but at the 195lb range.Holyfield had the faster hands,a good chin,and decent power.He also displayed good wind in taking this title,in a fast paced fight.Rocky had a huge edge in power,very good stamina,and was awkward.Holyfield went life and death with Qawi for this title,and there would be no way,that he could fight like that against Marciano.While Qawi had a good chin,he was also real good on defense,whereas the Rock would be an easier target.Holyfield would need to move and box,to use his advantages in speed,height and reach,to win this.But he can't,his pride won't let him.He'd try to close with the smaller man,and begin trading.Mariano could go down early,but he will get up,and proceed to violently hammer Holyfield.Marciano by a late k.o.,while Holyfield the warrior,goes out on his shield,
zuru

Rocky had a huge edge in power,very good stamina,and was awkward.

I don't believe the Rock had that much of an advantage in power, if any at all. I think his power is exaggerated. Most of the top fighters he ko'd were were not granite chinned like Holyfield and most had been ko'd before.
On top of that, Rocky would normally land a ton of punches on his opponent before putting them away.
In Holyfield, even at cruiserweight, he would be facing an opponent just as tough as him, with faster hands,better boxing skills and just as much heart.

Holyfield UD 15.

theone wrote:

Rocky had a huge edge in power,very good stamina,and was awkward.

I don't believe the Rock had that much of an advantage in power, if any at all. I think his power is exaggerated. Most of the top fighters he ko'd were were not granite chinned like Holyfield

Is thist the same grantie chinned Holyfield who was almost knocked out by Bert Cooper and stopped by Riddick Bowe?

Is thist the same grantie chinned Holyfield who was almost knocked out by Bert Cooper and stopped by Riddick Bowe?

Yes the very same. Are you implying because he was stunned by Cooper and stopped by Bowe he isn't granite chinned? No offense, but thats ridiculous.

This would be a very close fight, but I would have to lean toward Marciano to win by majority decision in a very entertaining fight, but it would not be a surprise to see it go the other way.

The thing about boxing...on any given night a great fighter could beat anyone. Such as Ali, Louis, Johnson, Dempsey, Tyson, Marciano, Jeffries...on their best night any of those mentioned could beat the other.

Evander may win but Rocky will be on his ass all night. Evander's offensive skills may eek out a decision. Another thing is Evander's tendency to brawl, may make it a more entertaining fight.

Can't see this going anyway other than over the 12/15 rounds (which ever era we are putting them in). Holyfield would land some big shots and I think would drop Rocky, maybe early to middle rounds. Rocky would take it to heart as normal, up his game and find his range. Eventually he would break down Holyfield's defense and score some good, heavy shots rocking if not dropping Holyfield late on. Holyfield would of course get up and continue leaving a tight decision going either way. I think a draw maybe on the cards, if not Marciano just pinching it. Good match up!

The most similar attribute these two men had were there tremendous heart and determination. Holyfield weathered the storm against guys like Bowe, Lewis, Tyson and Foreman. Marciano weathered the storm against Walcott, Charles, Louis and Moore.

Holyfield had very good power, but in terms of power I'd have to go with Marciano. Holyfield was the better boxer/tactician, Marciano was a wham bam didn't give a good god damn kind of fighter. Both in their primes were in excellent shape and conditioning, but nobody, not even Holyfield trained as hard as Marciano.

Here you have a guy who punches non-stop and never backs up against a man who threw great combinations---both were tough, but then again, Holyfield's toughest test was in Lennox Lewis and failed both times. Holyfield was knocked out twice, once in his prime by Bowe and once by James Toney. Marciano was only dropped twice in his career, both very short knock downs, against Walcott and Moore.

The prime Holyfield also lost to Michael Moorer, was shook up by Bert Cooper and had fits with Mike Dokes and struggled to put away both Foreman and Holmes who were in their 40's.

Holyfield was quoted as saying that Foreman was the hardest hitting man he ever faced; it makes one wonder that had Foreman been a lil faster if he would have stopped Holyfield---so, way I see it, the power of Marciano is comparable to George Foreman's, and with Marciano's style of cutting off the ring, getting short, never backing up and punching non-stop, he would have nullified Holyfield's abilities.

I see either a late KO or points win for Marciano, although the fight for however long it would last, would have been a helluva fight and very entertaining.

Also, must add, that in an interview before the Foreman fight, Holyfield once said he felt that himself and the HW's of his time were superior to the 'old guys' such as Louis and Marciano because the training was more advanced and the modern guys were 'bigger, faster, stronger'; that the new guys know what the old guys knew and much more, etc.

This would have simply been a war......On any given night I could see it go either way via close Dec for either man....

Though if I had to say who would win more often than not.....I go with Holyfield's hand speed, chin and strength......Marciano would have the edge in power.....but Holyfield is the stronger of the two.....Both could take a hell of a shot in their primes.....(at the same time the Rock never had to take the shots of men the sizes of Bowe, Lennox, Foreman, Tyson, etc).

Both had a ton of guts and heart to spare....

Holyfield loved to fight guys who came at him.....he counter punched and put combinations together (off his counters) about as good as any HW ever....and most assuridly better than any CW ever...

I say Holyfield by late TKO or close DEC.

[quote="ebeneezer"][quote="theone"][quote]Rocky had a huge edge in power,very good stamina,and was awkward.[/quote]

I don't believe the Rock had that much of an advantage in power, if any at all. I think his power is exaggerated. Most of the top fighters he ko'd were were not granite chinned like Holyfield [/quote]

Is thist the same grantie chinned Holyfield who was almost knocked out by Bert Cooper and stopped by Riddick Bowe?[/quote]

You forgot to mention Foreman, Lewis and Tyson.

An experienced Holyfield (not the one that beat Qawi in only his 12th pro fight) had way too much hand speed and heavy combination punching (and of course, Holyfield was very naturally strong and raw boned at cruiser, obviously) for Rock. But even if he got ahead early in the fight, which he surely would, Evander would still slow down and make it a brawl. Thus Rocky gets back in it... only to have the ref stop things when Rocky is cut badly (Holyfield reaching down and throwing swift, blinding combo's, uppercuts included, from hell).

Holyfield TKO 11 Marciano

Good hypothetical matchup & one that would have been great to watch if it could ave happened.

I'm going with Marciano because of Holyfield's tendency to brawl.

Had Evander elected to box, he would have won on points, but knowing Evander, he would have been lured into a brawl at some point & although he had a titatnium chin, brawling against a man like Rocky with his mind numbing power would probably have seen him lose by TKO late on.

barry wrote:This would be a very close fight, but I would have to lean toward Marciano to win by majority decision in a very entertaining fight, but it would not be a surprise to see it go the other way.

The thing about boxing...on any given night a great fighter could beat anyone. Such as Ali, Louis, Johnson, Dempsey, Tyson, Marciano, Jeffries...on their best night any of those mentioned could beat the other.

Barry

This a great observation and why I love fight series so much. All the greats can beat one another if they turn up ready and prepared.

Ezzard wrote:

barry wrote:This would be a very close fight, but I would have to lean toward Marciano to win by majority decision in a very entertaining fight, but it would not be a surprise to see it go the other way.

The thing about boxing...on any given night a great fighter could beat anyone. Such as Ali, Louis, Johnson, Dempsey, Tyson, Marciano, Jeffries...on their best night any of those mentioned could beat the other.

Barry

This a great observation and why I love fight series so much. All the greats can beat one another if they turn up ready and prepared.

Usually when we do these fantasy matchups I usually assume that both men show up. Its easy to say if Marciano underestimates Holyfield that he'll lose or vise versa.

Well, I think when it comes down to it...(by today's standards) Rocky Marciano would be a Cruiserweight or a Light Heavyweight...

Anyway, Rocky has KO'd fighters of similar size as Holyfield...(LaStarza for instance) so I'd say that the Rock would KO him in the mid-rounds....

Crease wrote:Well, I think when it comes down to it...(by today's standards) Rocky Marciano would be a Cruiserweight or a Light Heavyweight...

Anyway, Rocky has KO'd fighters of similar size as Holyfield...(LaStarza for instance) so I'd say that the Rock would KO him in the mid-rounds....

I'm not sure...but I think you just compared Evander Holyfield and Roland LaStarza...

At 195 Holyfield would be too drained due to making weight. He was so dehyrated after his win over Qwawi that it took many liters of fluid to get him back to normal.

At 195, he would be walking in the ring against Marciano with a huge disadvantage.

zojo, wrote:At 195 Holyfield would be too drained due to making weight. He was so dehyrated after his win over Qwawi that it took many liters of fluid to get him back to normal.

At 195, he would be walking in the ring against Marciano with a huge disadvantage.

He fought at 186 against Qawi and had never gone more than 8 rounds before in a professional fight. He wasn't weight drained even at that low weight. He simply wasn't conditioned to go 15 rounds. He was fine when he went 11 rounds with Ocasio the next year, weighing 189.

zuru wrote:Since Rocky was essentially a Cruiser,and Holyfied won this title,what if they fought at this weight?Not when Holyfield moved up,but at the 195lb range.Holyfield had the faster hands,a good chin,and decent power.He also displayed good wind in taking this title,in a fast paced fight.Rocky had a huge edge in power,very good stamina,and was awkward.Holyfield went life and death with Qawi for this title,and there would be no way,that he could fight like that against Marciano.While Qawi had a good chin,he was also real good on defense,whereas the Rock would be an easier target.Holyfield would need to move and box,to use his advantages in speed,height and reach,to win this.But he can't,his pride won't let him.He'd try to close with the smaller man,and begin trading.Mariano could go down early,but he will get up,and proceed to violently hammer Holyfield.Marciano by a late k.o.,while Holyfield the warrior,goes out on his shield,
zuru

I think Holyfield would outpoint Marciano. Holyfied was just as well conditioned as Rocky, had faster handspeed and a better all round boxing skills. Holyfield walked through Tyson's punches without flinching, and I don't think Marciano punched as hard as Tyson.

I have to agree with what barry wrote because I reached that same conclusion long ago.

Now, some of you really underrate Holyfield's power. Holyfield regularly sent guys thru the ropes in spectacular fashion.

Lets see: Qawi, McDonough, Tyson, Bowe, Moorer, Ruiz

Stay away from the ropes, 185 lb. Rock

Rocky
They all look better as far as the moves are concerned, but they don't look so good lying on the canvas. Evander, Make your bed.

zuru wrote:Holyfield went life and death with Qawi for this title,and there would be no way,that he could fight like that against Marciano.While Qawi had a good chin,he was also real good on defense,whereas the Rock would be an easier target.

What your forgetting is Holyfield was only 11-0 (8 ko's) when he fought Qawi and hadn't been past 8 rounds before. Holyfield too good for Marciano in my opinion, Holyfield by UD.

Controversial wrote:

zuru wrote:Since Rocky was essentially a Cruiser,and Holyfied won this title,what if they fought at this weight?Not when Holyfield moved up,but at the 195lb range.Holyfield had the faster hands,a good chin,and decent power.He also displayed good wind in taking this title,in a fast paced fight.Rocky had a huge edge in power,very good stamina,and was awkward.Holyfield went life and death with Qawi for this title,and there would be no way,that he could fight like that against Marciano.While Qawi had a good chin,he was also real good on defense,whereas the Rock would be an easier target.Holyfield would need to move and box,to use his advantages in speed,height and reach,to win this.But he can't,his pride won't let him.He'd try to close with the smaller man,and begin trading.Mariano could go down early,but he will get up,and proceed to violently hammer Holyfield.Marciano by a late k.o.,while Holyfield the warrior,goes out on his shield,
zuru

I think Holyfield would outpoint Marciano. Holyfied was just as well conditioned as Rocky, had faster handspeed and a better all round boxing skills. .

Holyfield WAS NOT as well conditioned as Marciano. Holyfield's conditioning is over-rated todat because A) he was usually fighting guys who wern't in top condition (Moorer II, Bowe II, Mercer, Foreman, recovering from years of drug abuse Dokes and Cooper etc.) B) He had some great late fight rallies (Tyson I and Bowe I)

But even in his best years, Evander would suddenly take rounds off as early as the 5th or 6th round, and sometimes appear to just halt. He did this several times vs the slow as molasses Foreman and it was just puzzling to watch. I think his over-reliance on weight training and his (reputed) use of illegal substances contributed to these lapses.

Marciano on the other hand ALWAYS came forward, ALWAYS threw HARD punches, and like the other great pressure fighters (Frazier, Jefferies) got stronger as the fight progressed.

Holyfield would put up a great fight but Marciano would leave him no breathing room and I see Holyfield getting stopped before the 10th.

(And while one could argue Holyfield had better boxing skills, the gap is not strong enough to argue Holyfield boxes to a decision win. He had good movement and threw nice double jabs, but Evander always ended up brawling one way or another, and a fairly average defense . . .he certaintly was not in the class of Charles or Walcott as a boxer)

dempseyfire wrote:Holyfield WAS NOT as well conditioned as Marciano. Holyfield's conditioning is over-rated todat because A) he was usually fighting guys who wern't in top condition (Moorer II, Bowe II, Mercer, Foreman, recovering from years of drug abuse Dokes and Cooper etc.) B) He had some great late fight rallies (Tyson I and Bowe I)

But even in his best years, Evander would suddenly take rounds off as early as the 5th or 6th round, and sometimes appear to just halt. He did this several times vs the slow as molasses Foreman and it was just puzzling to watch. I think his over-reliance on weight training and his (reputed) use of illegal substances contributed to these lapses.

Excellent post. I think another reason that Holyfield’s conditioning is over-rated is due to the poor condition of just about all heavyweights over the past 15 years, not just the examples you’ve given. The current crop of heavyweights usually take off all rounds after about the 3rd.

Looking through the history books, Marciano was a chronic fouler and we know that Holyfield has been a big fan of the headbutt in the past so I would expect a rough contest with point dockings and possible a DQ either way...

However, should nobody get thrown out, i'll settle for a Holyfield win.

[quote="Ally-M1"]Looking through the history books, Marciano was a chronic fouler and we know that Holyfield has been a big fan of the headbutt in the past so I would expect a rough contest with point dockings and possible a DQ either way...

However, should nobody get thrown out, i'll settle for a Holyfield win.[/quote]

Mmm-hmm

You need to get a grip, dempseyfire. Holyfield was an Olympic light-heavy (probably the best ever) and a three time heavyweight champ. Walcott and Charles were a higher class, you say? You know, they might be a class lower. Holyfield could KO either of them, late in his career at that. DEFINITELY earlier in his (heavyweight) career he could KO either of them. HOLYFIELD IS MUCH STRONGER THAN CHARLES AND MUCH FASTER THAN WALCOTT WITH THE COMBINATIONS. And watching Dempsey throw combinations against Willard compared to watching Holyfield throw combinations against, say, Foreman is like watching a wild amateur (Dempsey) and a smooth professional (Holyfield). Can't you tell the difference?

Holyfield stops Rock on cuts.