BoxRec

Hagler v Hearns
Leonard v Hagler

Ali - Frazier?

PBF DLH will be a clash not of tremendous athletes (although they are) but more a clash of selling points, if you get me. The reputations are bigger than the records, unlike Hagler-Hearns for example

Johnson v. Jeffries, Dempsey v. Carpentier, Louis v. Schmeling II, Holmes v. Cooney

Ali Frazier I
Ali Frazier III
Ali Foreman
Leonard Duran II
Leonard Duran I
Louis Schmeling II
Leonard Hagler
Dempsey Tunney II
Hagler Hearns
Marciano Moore
Liston Patterson II
Foreman Frazier II
Holmes Cooney

I could make a case for Frazier Ellis, as I recall everyone wondering who was going to unify the titlle post Ali. Back in this era the fights could be watched on TV and just like the movie you could watch them at the local Barber Shop. Talk about a culture shift, you'd never find that in a modern day hair salon. You'd more likely see ice skating.

How do you define a 'superfight' exactly?

For me, as superfight has to be between 2 potential H-O-F's, at or near their primes, battling to decide who is number one in that division.

For me, Leonard -v- Hearns (1981) is a genuine superfight, whereas Leonard -v- Hagler most definitely not, as it was about 2 ageing legends padding out their pension funds & massaging their egos.

Ali -v Frazier 1 (1971) is another superfight, whereas Ali -v- Frazier 3 was NOT. It was a brilliant fight, one of the best ever, not a true superfight IMO.

Fortunately, there are a lot; here, two:

Dempsey vs Firpo

Ali vs Foreman

Holyfield-Tyson II still holds the record for most PPV buys, I believe.

That was shaping up as one hell of a slugfest too (until Tyson realized that he was 'gonna get KTFO again and turned straight up bitch).
... ...

Everybody knew that they were going to get their moneys worth for Hagler-Hearns (and many picked Hearns, going into the fight, btw).
... ...

Foreman-Frazier was big stuff.
... ...

Chavez-Taylor was HIGHLY anticipated among knowledgeable boxing fans--as was Duran-Leonard I.

Sugar Ray Robinson vs Carmen Basilio
Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler vs Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Leonard
Wilfredo Gomez vs Salvador Sanchez

Delahoya-Trinidad Can't believe no one has mentioned it..

Tyson-Holyfield

Louis vs Schmeling I

Borinken25 wrote:Sugar Ray Robinson vs Carmen Basilio
Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard
Marvin Hagler vs Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Leonard
Wilfredo Gomez vs Salvador Sanchez

I like this list as well. Gomez Sanchez was huge.

Friedie wrote:Louis vs Schmeling I

Ex-ante no.

At the time it wasn't billed as such but to look back Salvador Sanchez and Azuma Nelson could qualify as a belated superfight.

To me the ultimate superfight is Ali Frazier I. Two fighters w/ legitamite claim to the heavyweight championship, undefeated,both in their prime, both with a level of greatness.

There's a lot of examples but I think the true superfights are when both fighters are at or extremely close to their peaks. Fights like Hagler-Leonard are more about ego and money. Though great warriors, I think had they met in 1984 or there abouts, it would have been a true superfight. Ali V Frazier 1 is the most significant example. The heavyweight divison in possibly the greatest era ever with two undefeated
athletes, with all the hype and controversy with Ali and Vietnam etc etc.
Nothing was bigger than that. Then I say Foreman V Ali

Joe Gans - Battling Nelson I

Decagon wrote:For a bout to be a superfight, it has to be between two guys who are not only great, but who people know are great.

Absolutely true... it's all about perception. Those who mention De La Hoya v. Trinidad have no idea how big boxing used to be. On a smaller scale it can still happen; the Maske v. Rocchigiani fights were HUGE in Germany.

Sullivan-Corbett
Johnson-Jeffries
Dempsey-Carpentier
Greb-Walker
Dempsey-Tunney 2
Louis-Schmelling
Robinson-La Motta
Marciano-Moore
Ali-Liston 2
Ali-Frazier 1&3
Ali-Foreman
Duran-Leonard 1&2
Leonard-Hearns 1
Holmes-Cooney
Hagler-Hearns
Hagler-Leonard
Tyson-Spinks
Chavez-Whitaker
Holyfield-Bowe 2
Lewis-Holyfield 1&2
De La Hoya-Trinidad
Hopkins-Trinidad
Hopkins-De La Hoya

Decagon wrote:

kick asner wrote:At the time it wasn't billed as such but to look back Salvador Sanchez and Azuma Nelson could qualify as a belated superfight.

A superfight isn't a matchup between two guys who will eventually be great, or even a matchup between two guys who are great. For a bout to be a superfight, it has to be between two guys who are not only great, but who people know are great.

Thats pretty much the context I posted it in.

pundit wrote:

Friedie wrote:Louis vs Schmeling I

Ex-ante no.

What does that term mean, pundit ?

Friedie wrote:

pundit wrote:

Friedie wrote:Louis vs Schmeling I

Ex-ante no.

What does that term mean, pundit ?

I suppose in retrospect yes, at the time no

Friedie wrote:

pundit wrote:

Friedie wrote:Louis vs Schmeling I

Ex-ante no.

What does that term mean, pundit ?

It means before the event, I think what pundit is saying is that Louis Schmeling I is considered an important fight now because of the upset. At the time however it was seen as another ex-champ being fed to the young KO machine, so not really a superfight.

Ypu could make a better case for Louis Schmeling II because of the politcal background, but I still wouldn't have called it a superfight purely in boxing terms.

EDIT me and wouter must have posted at the same time.

hmmm ..I suppose the second fight was more a superfight than the first one indeed. But before the '36 fight Jimmy Braddock was more a Cinderella-Champion ...but Louis was No1 and Schmeling No2 Contender (Ring Magazine Ratings End 1935). Louis was favorite...yes but Max recognized as the second best Heavyweight of the World.

Probably not for the most Americans but at least from an European and German perspective the first one was seen as a "superfight" too I guess, cause there a lot of people saw Schmelings chances against Louis quite better than the Americans did. Like Dempsey vs. Carpentier it was a fight involving the two best Boxers of the two continents...

Wilfredo Gomez vs Carlos Zarate

Ali- Frazier (1) 'The Battle of the Unbeatens'

Jim Jefferies- Jack Johnson 'The Fight of the Century'

Jack Dempsey- Jess Willard

George Foreman- Evander Holyfield 'The Battle of the Ages'

Sugar Ray Leonard- Marvelous Marvin Hagler

Gerry Cooney- Larry Holmes

Jack Dempsey- Luis Angel Firpo (Greatest Fight First Half of The Century)

Ali- Foreman 'The Rumble in the Jungle'

Ali- Frazier (3) 'The Thrilla in Manila'

Louis- Schmeling (2) [boxings equivilant to America vs Hitler]

Marciano- Walcott (1)

Sullivan- Kilrain

Sullivan- Mitchell (1 & 2)

Dempsey- Carpentier [boxings first million dollar gate]

Dempsey- Tunney (2) 'The Long Count'

Foreman- Frazier

Foreman- Moorer [Foreman does the impossible at 45]

Tyson- Spinks (the lineal/RING champ vs the WBC/WBA/IBF champ)

Tyson- Lewis [better late than never; biggest fight in boxing history]

Robinson- LaMotta 'The Saint Valentines Day Massacre'

Pep- Saddler (take your pick from this feud; great fights)

Robinson- Fullmer (1 & 2)

Robinson- Basilio (1 & 2)

There are so many great fights out there, but I agree, a 'superfight' is between two guys who are truly great and at their best. The only fight in my opinion, of all that I listed, was the best or suits the criteria the best is the first Ali-Frazier fight. Both men were at their primes or near their physical best, both were unbeaten, both claimed to be the true champion, and was a huge fight, big war.