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The 10 Greatest Fighters that NEVER won a World Title

Posted: 07 Feb 2007, 12:00
by elmersalsa
These are my top 10 greatest boxers that never won a world crown:

1. Sam Langford: Probably if he would have won a world crown, his statuts would have been as the greatest pound per pound all time

2. Charley Burley: I have read many stories about him that Eddie Futch said that he was the best fighter that he ha ever seen and that he gave the great Archie Moore a good licking for 10 rounds....Moore got whupped!!!

3. Peter Jackson: Probably the greatest heavyweight of his time...In my view, better than John L Sullivan

4. Harry Wills: Never had a crack to a world heavyweight title. A great puncher and skilled boxer. Was a top contender for the heavy crown for years and had great longevity.

5. Billy Petrolle: Fought in an era of great pound per pound entrants: Tony Canzoneri, Jack Kid Berg, Kid Chocolate, Barney Ross and other great ones. Fought for a world title twice, but came short both times.


6. Jim Driscoll: Whupped fair and square the great Abe Attell for the world feather title but did not get the crown. Also whupped the great George Dixon 3 times...Probably Dixon was over the hill, but nevertheless great wins. Only lost 4 times in 77 bouts. One of Wales and Great Britain's very best. :TU: :TU: :TU:

7. Holman Williams: Fought in the rich era of great top black welterweights, middleweights and light heavyweights contenders of the 1940s...Fought Moore, Burley, Bob Satterfield, Lloyd Marshall, Cocoa Kid, Eddie Booker, Jake LaMotta and others.

8. Lazlo Papp: Great fighter that had one of the most oustanding amateur boxing careers of all time. Was doing the same in the pro ranks, but I do know why he retired...He never lost a pro fight.:roll: :roll: :o :o :oops: :oops: :cry: :cry:

9. Billy Graham: Awesome boxer with great skill that fought the best of his time. He gave the great Kid Gavilan HELL in 4 fights...He is the "Uncrowned Welterweight Champion of the World"


10. Baby Arizmendi: One of Mexico's greatest top 10 fighters of all time...Why??? Look at his ledger and he beat 2 times the great Henry Armstrong in back to back fights. He also beat Freddie Miller and Chalky Wright.

HONORABLE MENTION:

Del Flanagan: Excellent lightweight, welter and middleweight contender that fought who is who of the 1940s and 50s, in probably the sport's richest era. Beat 7 Hall of Famers and 7 world champions

Joe Jeannette: One of the greatest heavyweights ever...beat the great Sam Langford the first time around by KO, but NEVER AGAIN had a win against Langford in the next 9 fights with him, losing in the series 5 times.

Cocoa Kid: Another fighter that fought the very best of his era and won more than 170 fights...His rival of choice was Holman Williams...they fought 7 times

Willie Joyce: Beat 5 Hall of Famers, including having the best of the series vs the great lightweight Ike Williams, beating him 2 out of 3 fights. Fell short for the world jr welter title losing twice for the crown.

Bennie Briscoe: Has there been a fighter that was more dignified and lovable than "Bad Benny" even when he lost a fight??? I do not see many. Fought great opposition of middleweights, and future world champions...Gave the great Carlos Monzon 2 tough fights. The first fight was a draw in Argentina. I would like to see this fight on video tape....Does someone has it???

Kenny Lane: tough and durable jr welter and lightweight contender. Fought over 90 bouts. Beat Orlando Zulueta, Carlos Ortiz, Virgil Akins, Carlos "Morocho" Hernandez, Ralph Dupas and Doug Valiant...Fought 3 times for a world crown, losing twice to Ortiz and once to the great Joe Brown.


These are my picks...Probably I forgot someone much notable than the ones above, and there are a lot of them...Who are your top 10 all time greatest that never won a crown in your view???

Posted: 07 Feb 2007, 12:34
by Seamus
1.Packey McFarland.

Jim Driscoll and Baby Arizmendi were World Title claimants.

Posted: 07 Feb 2007, 12:53
by Seamus
Kenny Lane held a version of the World Title as well. I know that may be splitting hairs, but it's probably no different than saying the WBO champion has a World Title.

Posted: 07 Feb 2007, 13:01
by jimglen
Lazlo Papp, it is my understanding 'quit' the ring in response to the "lack" of response and support from his own Communist goverment.
They were more interested in their own Political agenda and as the commitment was 'gruelling' and in Lazlo's case the renumerations poor added to the continious fear/suspision of Lazlo 'defecting', he just said _uck it" or probably more appropriately "_uck them!"

JOCK MCAVOY

Posted: 08 Feb 2007, 07:19
by silkov
Decagon wrote:Didn't I just do a list of the 30 greatest middleweights who never won a title?
Does anybody care??..... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Posted: 08 Feb 2007, 20:43
by torodecayey
jimmy bivins
jesus pimentel
lew tendler

Posted: 08 Feb 2007, 22:31
by iceman21287
torodecayey wrote:jimmy bivins
jesus pimentel
lew tendler
Thank you for mentioning Bivins :TU:

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 00:58
by Expug
Ace Hudkins
Gypsy Joe Harris
Yaqui Lopez
some others that come to mind.

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 12:01
by elmersalsa
Seamus wrote:1.Packey McFarland.

Jim Driscoll and Baby Arizmendi were World Title claimants.
Were they considered world champions? in many boxing books I do not see them as world champions...Mayber they were champions, I got to see more of that claimants thing and what it meant.

Is title claimant the same as definite world champ. Not being funny muy friend, I do not consider the WBO a world title worthy of consideration.

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 12:57
by Seamus
Elmer

As you mentioned, after Driscoll beat champion Abe Attell in a non-title bout, he was unable to secure a shot at Attell's title, so Great Britain recognized him as World Champion from 1909 until his retirement in 1913. In all honesty, Driscoll's title defenses, at least on paper, appear to have been against fairly poor opposition, as did a few of Attell's.

Arizmendi's title bouts I think are even more confusing. Starting in 1932 he won various world titles recognized by California, Mexico and New York. Were the titles won by Driscoll and Arizmendi considered legitimate ? Obviously in places like NYC, LA, Mexico City, London etc they were, but what I think it call comes down to is quality of opposition. Certainly Driscoll and Arizmendi were the equivelent of guys who held just a WBC or WBA belt. Now stop making out lists until you've made out your latest BoxRec Hall of Fame ballot.

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 13:36
by silkov
I dont think anyone here has mentioned Owen Moran yet, .....he was also robbed against Attell... twice I believe... American manager Jimmy Johnstone called Moran the best fighter from Britain that he's ever seen... and thats including Wilde and Lewis!... he was just a Bantam but fought the best right up to Lightweight.... including Ad Wolgast for the world title too...

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 13:58
by KOJOE90
Dpnt forget.

Eddie Booker.
Jack Chase
Lloyd Marshall.
Bert Lytell.

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 14:36
by Collins2000
KOJOE90 wrote:Dpnt forget.

Eddie Booker.
Jack Chase
Lloyd Marshall.
Bert Lytell.

Almost right, mate. But the name you are looking for is GILROY, Bert GILROY.

:o

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 14:52
by AndreWardFan2006
Ike Ibeabuchi :wink:

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 15:13
by silkov
Collins2000 wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:Dpnt forget.

Eddie Booker.
Jack Chase
Lloyd Marshall.
Bert Lytell.

Almost right, mate. But the name you are looking for is GILROY, Bert GILROY.

:o

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! :x

Posted: 09 Feb 2007, 17:07
by bollox
jimglen wrote:Lazlo Papp, it is my understanding 'quit' the ring in response to the "lack" of response and support from his own Communist goverment.
They were more interested in their own Political agenda and as the commitment was 'gruelling' and in Lazlo's case the renumerations poor added to the continious fear/suspision of Lazlo 'defecting', he just said _uck it" or probably more appropriately "_uck them!"

JOCK MCAVOY
I was fairly certain that the Hungarian government either revoked Papp's pro license or refused him a travel permit? (he didn't fight pro in Hungary). A pro fighter fighting for money was against communist ideals and a successful pro fighter was downright dangerous :-?

He never turned pro until his late 20's / early 30's. Had Papp turned pro much earlier I'm quietly confident that we'd around here would be discussing his name amongst the greatest middles of all time

I had a couple of short grainy clips of 2 of his pro fights and he looked dynamite. I lost them when my pc crashed a couple of years ago :x

Posted: 10 Feb 2007, 20:24
by jjflany
1. Glen Flanagan fought them all in the featherweight ,lightweight and welterweight division in the 40s and 50s never backing away from anyone.Glen refused the influence of the mob and went to the top in spite of it. Glen fought 36 times against a ranked contender or champion in 3 weight classes.

2. Jackie Graves former top 10 contender of the 40s and 50s. Jackie was ko artist who has to be listed as one of the best southpaws ever.

3. Jock Malone middleweight conteder.

4.Tommy Cambell lightweight 40s and 50s.

Posted: 10 Feb 2007, 20:30
by pundit
Elmers's orignal list looks quite comprehensive. McFarland and Bivins seem the most obvious misses though.

Posted: 10 Feb 2007, 21:45
by Borinken25
What about Jose Basora

vs. Holman Williams 2 W, 3 L, and 1D
vs. Jake LaMotta 1W, 1L, and 1D
vs. Ezzard Charles 1L
vs. Fritzie Zivic 1W
And vs. prime Sugar Ray Robinson 1D that many people believed that he should have got the decision . And 1 Loss.

Posted: 11 Feb 2007, 06:50
by Evander
In my time even though he won a WBO title.

Ray Mercer should have done a little better.

Posted: 14 Feb 2007, 06:51
by Martin Sosa Cameron
From Argentina, only, there is a lot:

Luis Firpo
Oscar Bonavena
Gregorio Peralta
José Carattoli
Jorge Ahumada
Eduardo Lausse
Rafael Merentino
Raúl Rodríguez
Jorge Fernández
Federico Thompson
Justo Suárez
Julio Mocoroa
Víctor Echegaray
Vicente Derado
Ernesto Miranda (beat Chartchai Chionoi; twice drew with Eder Jofre)

and this other great, the Peruvian

Mauro Mina!


:TU:

Posted: 14 Feb 2007, 07:48
by overhand_right
silkov wrote:
Decagon wrote:Didn't I just do a list of the 30 greatest middleweights who never won a title?
Does anybody care??..... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Of course they dont.

Posted: 14 Feb 2007, 07:49
by overhand_right
Decagon wrote:Well, he shouldn't have looked like shit against Larry Donald, Marion Wilson and Jesse Ferguson, then.
Mercer fought Larry Donald? Thats a new one on me.

Posted: 14 Feb 2007, 09:42
by The Great John L
Chrysanthemum Joe comes to mind.

Posted: 14 Feb 2007, 09:47
by Ezzard
Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:From Argentina, only, there is a lot:

Luis Firpo
Oscar Bonavena
Gregorio Peralta
José Carattoli
Jorge Ahumada
Eduardo Lausse
Rafael Merentino
Raúl Rodríguez
Jorge Fernández
Federico Thompson
Justo Suárez
Julio Mocoroa
Víctor Echegaray
Vicente Derado
Ernesto Miranda (beat Chartchai Chionoi; twice drew with Eder Jofre)

and this other great, the Peruvian

Mauro Mina!


:TU:
Definitely Mauro Mina