BoxRec

- I don'tknow if this is done before.. didn't bother to use search.. so excuse me ..

This would be a tremendous epic.

Frazier has been titeled as Black Marciano many times but I honestly believe that The Brockton Blockbuster was faster, more versatile, better chinned, more skilled, more elusive and pigger puncher.

Marciano would weather the storm early and finish George somewhere in rounds 8 to 10. The young (prime) Foreman didn't have a good stamina and was very voulnerable to infighting crisps, swinging wildly. Foreman didn't have that one punch skill.. cose he certainly had the power.. and Marciano would just hunt him down and step on him in the later rounds.

Just one Great I think Marciano could beat and look good while doing it

cheers

I'd have to disagree with you there CULTUS...

I agree that Marciano was more durable (and slightly stronger than Frazier)... + I would rate Marciano chance very highly against any of ther other true Greats;
(Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis)...

BUT

I WOULD NOT fancy him against Foreman.... (In my opinion Foreman would be the only man who whould be able to rightfully KO Rocky.)

Foreman's truly overwhelmed Frazier in a way the world had not seen...(This doesn't bode well for Tyson or Dempsey, because he would probably do the exact same to them)...

No, I think that Marciano WOULD be able to stop Foreman, BUT I'd personally take Foreman...

(Sorry). :(

Crease wrote:I'd have to disagree with you there CULTUS...

I agree that Marciano was more durable (and slightly stronger than Frazier)... + I would rate Marciano chance very highly against any of ther other true Greats;
(Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Joe Frazier, Jack Dempsey, Larry Holmes, Jack Johnson, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis)...

BUT

I WOULD NOT fancy him against Foreman.... (In my opinion Foreman would be the only man who whould be able to rightfully KO Rocky.)

Foreman's truly overwhelmed Frazier in a way the world had not seen...(This doesn't bode well for Tyson or Dempsey, because he would probably do the exact same to them)...

No, I think that Marciano WOULD be able to stop Foreman, BUT I'd personally take Foreman...

(Sorry). :(

With all respect Crease,I have to say that I think Marciano takes Foreman,and for sure a prime Tyson takes a prime Foreman.Frazier might have been durable and Philadelphia tough,but Tyson was blazing fast,and would have been doing things to Foreman that Big George certainly thought was impossible.Marciano presses him in close,and Big George can't find the punching room.If Foreman could keep him at a distance and unload, his chances were better,but Rocky would bob and weave and come under in his crouch getting in close and going from body to head back down.

Foreman and Liston are terrible match-ups for the Rock as much I admire the Rock this fight ain't going past 5 Rounds...

Victor*KC wrote:Foreman and Liston are terrible match-ups for the Rock as much I admire the Rock this fight ain't going past 5 Rounds...

Oh Vic don't be such a pessimist,i think Foreman would last at least until the middle rds 8)
zuru

zuru wrote:

Victor*KC wrote:Foreman and Liston are terrible match-ups for the Rock as much I admire the Rock this fight ain't going past 5 Rounds...

Oh Vic don't be such a pessimist,i think Foreman would last at least until the middle rds 8)
zuru

Irish you posting on a diffrent account?

Swarmers like the Rock and Frazier were made to order for Big George. They'd plow their head into George's chest and try to get into their rhythm. But George would use his physical strength and size to push them off into his own range and unload. End of story.

The Rock's chin holds him for about five rounds. The ref stops the fight after that.

first of all Frazier was superior to Marciano in everything, with the exception of maybe stamina which they were both at least equals.
Marciano looked so impressive in comparison due to the quality of thier opposition. Switch the competition and the Rock doesn't look so tough.
Frazier would have went through Moore, Charles, and Walcott nearly as easily as he did Foster.
Foreman is the absolute worst opponent for Marciano to fight. It would be shocking if Marciano lasted into the second round.

theone wrote:first of all Frazier was superior to Marciano in everything, with the exception of maybe stamina which they were both at least equals.
Marciano looked so impressive in comparison due to the quality of thier opposition. Switch the competition and the Rock doesn't look so tough.
Frazier would have went through Moore, Charles, and Walcott nearly as easily as he did Foster.
Foreman is the absolute worst opponent for Marciano to fight. It would be shocking if Marciano lasted into the second round.

what do you guys see in Frazier .. I just dont get it.

Zuru, I can understand where your coming from, (I actually hadn't thought of that before; What if Marciano got sooo close to Foreman that George couldn't get the space to connect with his powershots!!!)
CUEDOS FOR AN INTERSTING IDEA!

HOWEVER

"Big" George is the nightmare opponent for Marciano, basically because he punches harder than The Rock and he's got the size & reach advantages...(This all comes into play against the rock).

BUT

Whenever Ali swarmed and pestered Foreman, Foreman collasped never to return... Now if Ali can swarm, frustrate and untimately KO Foreman, then Marciano definitely can.... (that's where Rocky has a genuine chance).

BUT LASTLY

Whenever Ali swarmed Foreman, George was excruciatingly tired, Marciano would have to wear Foreman out a similar way to win the fight.....

Cultus,

I would have to disagree with everything that you said;

Marciano is a better boxer than Frazier..... (not just because of his unbeaten record).

Marciano punches (slightly) harder than Frazier...

Marciano could take loads of punishment (check out Walcott I or Charles II)

Unlike Frazier, Marciano NEVER STOPPED THROWING PUNCHES... Frazier DOES (check Ali III, Frazier staggers toward Ali, and when he reaches him, just falls into him...hugging him...YES, HE STOPPED THROWING PUNCHES).

Rocky would be pushed and slapped back into range where George could unload the bombs.

Yes, if Rocky gets George in the 13th or 14th there's only going to be 1 winner, but that's a very big IF.

Crease wrote:Cultus,

I would have to disagree with everything that you said;

Marciano is a better boxer than Frazier..... (not just because of his unbeaten record).

Marciano punches (slightly) harder than Frazier...

Marciano could take loads of punishment (check out Walcott I or Charles II)

Unlike Frazier, Marciano NEVER STOPPED THROWING PUNCHES... Frazier DOES (check Ali III, Frazier staggers toward Ali, and when he reaches him, just falls into him...hugging him...YES, HE STOPPED THROWING PUNCHES).

Frazier was faster and more skilled than Marciano. Frazier was an Olympic champion. Rocky hardly had an amateur career and had far less experience than Joe.

Frazier by the 3rd fight was way past his best. He was, according to many in the know, almost blind in one eye. No comparison can be made between the Frazier of the Thriller fight and Rocky as Rocky had retired long before he had slipped to that extent.

Ezzard, I agree that it is a huge "IF"....

Frankly I can't see Marciano wearing Foreman out the way Ali did...

Crease wrote:Ezzard, I agree that it is a huge "IF"....

Frankly I can't see Marciano wearing Foreman out the way Ali did...

I think that whilst Ali hardly missed a punch, and caught Foreman with some stinging shots, that the key was in nullifying Foreman. George wore himself out physically and many of the sports top punchers fade mentally when their show stoppers don't stop the show...

I would probably take George, but it could go either way. I could see George just overwhelming the smaller Rocky and taking him out, and I could see Rocky withstanding the initial storm and taking out a fatigued George in the later rounds. Either way it would be a great fight.

Sorry, Marciano fans, but this is just a massive physical mismatch - Marciano never faced anyone like Foreman, who could just easily keep him at arm's length and pound him like he did Frazier.

Any mention of the Rumble in the Jungle is utterly irrelevant to this hypothetical matchup - the Ali fight was a completely different animal than this one would be, it was even unique by Ali's standards.

"Down goes Rocky! Down goes Rocky!"

Sorry, I've been gone a few days, been damn near a blizzard here where I am at and my sister had another kid.


Neways....


George Foreman would be the sure favorite in this fight. He is honestly the only man I have a hard time seeing the Rock actually beating. Most guys who went to Foreman barely survived the first three or so rounds. A mover, slickster would have been a more formidable opponent for Foreman, as he was taken the distance a few times in his earlier fights and lost to the likes of Jimmy Young.

I think if Rocky was to have a chance at all, it would have to be a matter of conditioning and toughness, rather than power/skill. While Marciano is the greatest conditioned HW champion in history, I find it doubtful he could stand up to Foreman---but if Rocky could get passed the first 7 or 8 rounds, he'd have a helluva chance---that is if he still had something left at the end of those 8 or so rounds.

Many give comparisons to Frazier, but I don't agree on some levels. Joe was more aggressive than Marciano, which left him open for shots. Joe only had power in his left hand (maybe his right is under-rated, but for my money every other punch he threw was a diversion to set up the left hook). As much as Frazier trained hard, the most he ever trained for a fight was 8 weeks when he fought Ali in Manila, while Marciano, as everyone knows, was addicted to training as some are addicted to cocaine. Marciano was a better bobber and weaver, in my opinion, and he was far more defensive than people gave him credit for.

Most of Foreman's blows would have landed on Marciano's arms or the top of his head.

But like I said before, its still a long shot. I go for Foreman winning by TKO in 6 or 7 rounds, but a true KO victory is not out of the question either.

Foreman. Big brute beats small brute.

Frazier didn't throw much at Foreman.. rather escaped and kept the desired distance for Foreman. So George never even had to work too much to push Frazier away.

Marciano at the other hand would be in Georges face and stay there .. People who say that George would keep Marciano in that punding distance are wrong.. His stamina would burn away like that very fast and Marciano would still be coming.

If Frazier would have really fought rather than be "slick" and bob-weave in that second fight he could have beaten George. Every punch that Frazier landed he had sucsess with. But then he went back to being "slick" once more. Marciano would have been there for real.

pundit wrote:Foreman. Big brute beats small brute.

one brute had lesser stamina, lesser heart and lesser speed.

Frazier was an even busier fighter than Marciano. He was relentless. He had better all around boxing skills than Marciano and was much harder to hit. Marciano got hit cleanly a lot in many of his fights.
Yes, Marciano did show he could take punishment against Walcott and Charles, but that is not remotely like taking punishment from George Foreman.
Where is the evidence that Foreman didn't have heart?
Foreman's stamina problems have been exaggerrated. In the Ali fight, he threw too many punches in extremely in hot weather and punched himself out. If you watch the Peralta fight for example, he didn't show any stamina problems. It wouldn't matter much against Marciano anyway. Marciano would be a target right in front of him and he would take him out early.
Foreman would have an easier time with Marciano than he did with Frazier. This would not last long at all.

Frazier was an even busier fighter than Marciano.

yes,but he didn't throw too many punches with Foreman .. he didn't even try .. he just floated around not doing too much. I don't see Marciano being nice and nippy.

cultus wrote:Marciano at the other hand would be in Georges face and stay there

Oh, he might briefly *get* there, but no way in hell would he manage to *stay* there.

Hell, Frazier barely managed to even *get* there against Foreman - and look how much good it did him.

and I don't want to hear about Marciano's supposedly superior boxing skills or world-class conditioning - now way was he signifantly better than prime Frazier in either of those departments.

Again, it all comes down to a massive size mismatch and a stylistic matchup that is all wrong for Marciano. Answer me this: how many really big skilled heavyweights close to their physical prime did Marciano ever face? Those who pick him in this matchup, the burden is on them to present evidence that Marciano could hold his own with that kind of animal, and I just don;t see any. Beating up a horribly faded Joe Louis just ain't even close.

On the other hand, we have no shortage of actual-fight evidence that Foreman did extremely well against small in-your-face-swarmer types. In other words, picking Foreman doesn't just involve pulling bogus unsupported "facts" (like "Marciano was better tha Frazier") out of one's butt.

cultus wrote:

pundit wrote:Foreman. Big brute beats small brute.

one brute had lesser stamina, lesser heart and lesser speed.

Lesser stamina is the only one I could agree on.