BoxRec

Simple question; when was it?

Did he ever peak as a professional at all?

This may sound silly, but I think that him beating Ali in only his 8th fight was the worst thing that could have happened to him.

Yes, he can tell his grandchildren that he beat 'the greatest', but at what price?

Leon was forced into the big time far too soon in his career, thus he was never allowed to develop as a pro.

I'm not saying he was going to be an ATG, but I do believe that his career was affected & he might have achieved far more otherwise.

Well, I sometimes think that Leon was at his peak as an amatuer where he was a feared force of nature and may well have been the best Light-Heavyweight USA amateur ever. From what I have read Leon seemed to really enjoy his amateur days, traveling the World representing his state or country without the pressures of the professional world. As an amatuer Leon became good friends with his team mate Aaron Pryor and I have always felt their respective styles were not that disimular (in or out of the ring). I think Leon holds some sort of KO record as a American amateur. He was a beast in the vest, and I truely believe he would have given Evander Holyfield all the trouble he could handle in a amateur fight.

But then he turned professional. Unlike his younger brother Micheal, Leon never had the maturity to deal with the media spotlight and pressures of the paid ranks. Leon loved to fight but hated to train and once he turned professional and had money in his pocked for the first time in his life he was like a starving kid in a sweet store, out of control.

The way he was rushed into a title shot may well have been the best way to deal with him to be honest. At least he can say he beat 'The Greatest' as was the Heavyweight Champion of the World, even though he didn't have the mental tools to deal with that situation.

If he had have been brought along slowly from the start, and his management planned for him to have about 20 fights then have a title shot around 1981, that would have meant keeping Leon clean for another three years which was never going to happen and he would have lost to some fringe contender. Then his career would have carried on the way it did anyway, fighting on way too long just for a few $$'s.

If Leon had been as clean living and dedicated as Michael I have no doubt he could have competed with the Witherspoons, Dokes, Tates, Pages and Tubbs etc. But he wasn't.

All true KOJoe. Poor old Leon simply didn't have the mental tools for any type of pressure outside of the boxing ring. He was however, the funniest (accidentally) HW ever, behind Tex Cobb

Spinks best peformances were against Mercado and Evangelista. He took everything Mercado had to throw at him and knockout him out brutally in the 9th while in the Evangelista fight he put his punches together well and knocked him out with a perfect combination of blows. All the blows were right on the button.

RazorKO wrote:Spinks best peformances were against Mercado and Evangelista. He took everything Mercado had to throw at him and knockout him out brutally in the 9th while in the Evangelista fight he put his punches together well and knocked him out with a perfect combination of blows. All the blows were right on the button.

Good call.

That was probably his peak.

KOJOE90 wrote:Well, I sometimes think that Leon was at his peak as an amatuer where he was a feared force of nature and may well have been the best Light-Heavyweight USA amateur ever. From what I have read Leon seemed to really enjoy his amateur days, traveling the World representing his state or country without the pressures of the professional world. As an amatuer Leon became good friends with his team mate Aaron Pryor and I have always felt their respective styles were not that disimular (in or out of the ring). I think Leon holds some sort of KO record as a American amateur. He was a beast in the vest, and I truely believe he would have given Evander Holyfield all the trouble he could handle in a amateur fight.

But then he turned professional. Unlike his younger brother Micheal, Leon never had the maturity to deal with the media spotlight and pressures of the paid ranks. Leon loved to fight but hated to train and once he turned professional and had money in his pocked for the first time in his life he was like a starving kid in a sweet store, out of control.

The way he was rushed into a title shot may well have been the best way to deal with him to be honest. At least he can say he beat 'The Greatest' as was the Heavyweight Champion of the World, even though he didn't have the mental tools to deal with that situation.

If he had have been brought along slowly from the start, and his management planned for him to have about 20 fights then have a title shot around 1981, that would have meant keeping Leon clean for another three years which was never going to happen and he would have lost to some fringe contender. Then his career would have carried on the way it did anyway, fighting on way too long just for a few $$'s.

If Leon had been as clean living and dedicated as Michael I have no doubt he could have competed with the Witherspoons, Dokes, Tates, Pages and Tubbs etc. But he wasn't.

Well said.

That sums up Leon perfectly.

It's a shame for him really, but at least he'd lived the dream, even if it was only for 7 months, 29 years ago!

A champion is the whole package....Leon was no better than his choices and his outcomes....same goes for all of us.

HOWEVER if you want to go over the topic of "potential" I have this to add. I saw him and his brother work out in the St Louis area on their way up the ladder. Leon could have been much better than his career actually played out...and I mean MUCH better. He was like a comet streaking up the charts right up and including part of the very day he discovered he liked to get high.....and that was it....he deflated quicker than a party balloon that was sat on by the fat lady of the circus.

But potentional is worthless unless it is parlayed....and it was not, but he was pretty startlingly effective before he broke his achilles heel...which in this case would be self discipline. His brother was far more disicplined but I don't think he had any more raw potential....he just asked more of himself than his brother did.

KOJO said it all man...he said it all.

Great question Syntax & one that I've never considered before.

I can see where you are coming from, when you say that he never really learned his craft, because he was launched into the big time, way too soon.

The others sum it up perfectly, especially RazorKo's points.

Ali holds the distinction of being the only heavyweight champion in the history of boxing to lose his title to a novice who had only 7 professional fights.

Not an impressive record to hold.

Ali was beaten by a 7-fight novice who then showed he was unable to stay in the ring for a full three minutes with Gerrie Goetzee just after Ali struggled for 30 rounds with him.

granberry wrote:Ali holds the distinction of being the only heavyweight champion in the history of boxing to lose his title to a novice who had only 7 professional fights.

Not an impressive record to hold.

Ali was beaten by a 7-fight novice who then showed he was unable to stay in the ring for a full three minutes with Gerrie Goetzee just after Ali struggled for 30 rounds with him.

Doesn't this get old???

The very definition of a troll. Go to ESB.

dempseyfire wrote:

granberry wrote:Ali holds the distinction of being the only heavyweight champion in the history of boxing to lose his title to a novice who had only 7 professional fights.

Not an impressive record to hold.

Ali was beaten by a 7-fight novice who then showed he was unable to stay in the ring for a full three minutes with Gerrie Goetzee just after Ali struggled for 30 rounds with him.

Doesn't this get old???

The very definition of a troll. Go to ESB.

It gets VERY OLD that Ali is sold by the walking army of the Ali industry as the "greatest of all time" while in the real world Ali is the only heavyweight champion in the history of boxing to lose his title to a novice who had only seven professional fights.

Troll and Ali industry member Dempseyfire is offended when that fact is pointed out.

You do know the story behind that right? Or as you would call it the excuse behind that.....as told by Angelo.....Ali didnt' train.....so he paid the price. Over confidence could whip just about anyone

what about that 'anchor punch' ?

...and also... i think joe grim was already working on perfecting the rope a dope decades b4 ALI

funso banjo baby wrote:what about that 'anchor punch' ?

...and also... i think joe grim was already working on perfecting the rope a dope decades b4 ALI

Ali got clobbered on the ropes by Joe Frazier (see the end of the 10th round of their first fight, for one example).

Yet the Ali industry shills sell this false mantra about their product.

What did Jimmy Young do when Ali tried his pathetic on the ropes act?

Nothing worked for poor Ali the night he took a boxing lesson from Jimmy Young.

Nothing except the Don King judges giving him his farcical "decision" after he took his ass-whipping.

granberry wrote:

funso banjo baby wrote:what about that 'anchor punch' ?

...and also... i think joe grim was already working on perfecting the rope a dope decades b4 ALI

Ali got clobbered on the ropes by Joe Frazier (see the end of the 10th round of their first fight, for one example).

Yet the Ali industry shills sell this false mantra about their product.

What did Jimmy Young do when Ali tried his pathetic on the ropes act?

Nothing worked for poor Ali the night he took a boxing lesson from Jimmy Young.

Nothing except the Don King judges giving him his farcical "decision" after he took his ass-whipping.

I know you must have gotten this question alot but what have Ali done to you realy because I have never meet anyone who love to point out the faults of Ali as much as you do.

Thunder and Lightning wrote:

granberry wrote:

funso banjo baby wrote:what about that 'anchor punch' ?

...and also... i think joe grim was already working on perfecting the rope a dope decades b4 ALI

Ali got clobbered on the ropes by Joe Frazier (see the end of the 10th round of their first fight, for one example).

Yet the Ali industry shills sell this false mantra about their product.

What did Jimmy Young do when Ali tried his pathetic on the ropes act?

Nothing worked for poor Ali the night he took a boxing lesson from Jimmy Young.

Nothing except the Don King judges giving him his farcical "decision" after he took his ass-whipping.

I know you must have gotten this question alot but what have Ali done to you realy because I have never meet anyone who love to point out the faults of Ali as much as you do.

Ali whipped his dad's idol Frazier and Cranberry was brought up in a household that hated Ali. He can't help the way he is.

Collins2000 wrote:

Thunder and Lightning wrote:

granberry wrote: Ali got clobbered on the ropes by Joe Frazier (see the end of the 10th round of their first fight, for one example).

Yet the Ali industry shills sell this false mantra about their product.

What did Jimmy Young do when Ali tried his pathetic on the ropes act?

Nothing worked for poor Ali the night he took a boxing lesson from Jimmy Young.

Nothing except the Don King judges giving him his farcical "decision" after he took his ass-whipping.

I know you must have gotten this question alot but what have Ali done to you realy because I have never meet anyone who love to point out the faults of Ali as much as you do.

Ali whipped his dad's idol Frazier and Cranberry was brought up in a household that hated Ali. He can't help the way he is.

Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Poor Collins.

granberry wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

Thunder and Lightning wrote: I know you must have gotten this question alot but what have Ali done to you realy because I have never meet anyone who love to point out the faults of Ali as much as you do.

Ali whipped his dad's idol Frazier and Cranberry was brought up in a household that hated Ali. He can't help the way he is.

Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Poor Collins.

Two truly great gladiators, one vanquished at the end of around 40 amazing rounds in the ring. In the end it was Joe not Ali that would not finish the dance. Mercifully saved by those who loved him. An unalterable and undeniable fact and final event in a majestic trilogy of skill, will and world class drama.

BoxBuzz wrote:

granberry wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:
Ali whipped his dad's idol Frazier and Cranberry was brought up in a household that hated Ali. He can't help the way he is.

Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Poor Collins.

Two truly great gladiators, one vanquished at the end of around 40 amazing rounds in the ring. In the end it was Joe not Ali that would not finish the dance. Mercifully saved by those who loved him. An unalterable and undeniable fact and final event in a majestic trilogy of skill, will and world class drama.

Keep the Ali industry crap coming, buzz.

granberry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

granberry wrote: Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson and Ali industry clone Collins can't swallow that.

Poor Collins.

Two truly great gladiators, one vanquished at the end of around 40 amazing rounds in the ring. In the end it was Joe not Ali that would not finish the dance. Mercifully saved by those who loved him. An unalterable and undeniable fact and final event in a majestic trilogy of skill, will and world class drama.

Keep the Ali industry crap coming, buzz.

It's what I saw with my own eyes...it's there for anyone to watch the films and see to this very day, it's no secret, no hype, no rules....just right. Face the truth of it.....and indeed you will find that the truth shall set you free.

KOJOE90 wrote:

Thats a picture of Michael Spinks.

Oh my god this constant Cranberry/Ali shit gets tired quickly. Does this guy have anything else in his life other than this singular Ali obsession?

I'd love to see a picture of what this Cranberry oddball actually looks like. Any ideas?

overhand_right wrote:

KOJOE90 wrote:

Thats a picture of Michael Spinks.

Are you sure mate? There seems to be the missing tooth and it looks like just after the decision was announced after Spinks - Ali 1.