BoxRec

I was just wondering if a seasoned heavyweight has ever moved down to light heavyweight and won a world title?

From memory...and without checking the record books....

The only fighter I can think of who might be made to fit tat description would be Bob Fitzsimmons who won the Lt Heavy title years after he'd won and lost the Heavyweight crown. But of course Bob could hardly be called a "seasoned heavyweight" as he was more of a middleweight/supermiddle.

Willie Pastrano fought a bit at heavyweight and later won the Lt Heavy title but again you'd hardly call Willie a true heavy once he trained properly and found his real weight class.

J

Thanks for the info guys

And Mercman I think that doing it at british level is still pretty impressive, so thanks again.

The only fighter I can think of who might be made to fit tat description would be Bob Fitzsimmons who won the Lt Heavy title years after he'd won and lost the Heavyweight crown. But of course Bob could hardly be called a "seasoned heavyweight" as he was more of a middleweight/supermiddle.

While he did not fight much higher than 167 pounds, he did fight numerous heavyweights. The bulk of his career was at MW-LHW but he did fight many HW's to put a serious dent in the division, before and after winning the HW title. So I don't quite agree with ur statement.

Fitz once fought seven HW's in a single day (actually six, but fought one of the six twice), the largest being 6'7" and over 270 pounds and he knocked him out in three rounds (i think). This was a man who was in a MW-LHW body but had the power of a damn near super HW.

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:

The only fighter I can think of who might be made to fit tat description would be Bob Fitzsimmons who won the Lt Heavy title years after he'd won and lost the Heavyweight crown. But of course Bob could hardly be called a "seasoned heavyweight" as he was more of a middleweight/supermiddle.

While he did not fight much higher than 167 pounds, he did fight numerous heavyweights. The bulk of his career was at MW-LHW but he did fight many HW's to put a serious dent in the division, before and after winning the HW title. So I don't quite agree with ur statement.

I didn't mean to imply in my comments that Bob had no track record against heavyweights (which he clearly did) - I meant that despite his record and abilities against such heavys he wasn't weighing in at 200 lbs-plus!

J

Gregorio "Goyo" Peralta was Argentinian and South American Heavyweight Champion when he fought against Willie Pastrano (former high rated between world Heavyweights) for the World Light Heavyweight Title

..joey maxim was a top ten rated heavyweight.....and then dropped down to light heavy and won the world's lightheavy title from freddie mills.

Willie Pastrano had been doing very well at Heavy and was in the top ten when he dropped down to 175. Also, although not really seasoned, John Conteh was a real up and coming Heavy prospect who was gaining alot of notoriety (especially after he knocked out Terry Daniels on the first Ali-Bugner card) when he dropped down in weight.

Scartissue

..when he was just starting his career. muhammed ali saw the speedy, shifty wille pastrano sparring in the gym and said that was a major influence in his developing his own style.

Jaclem wrote:..when he was just starting his career. muhammed ali ther speedy, shifty wille pastrano sparring in the gym and said that was a major influence in his developing his own style.

You mean his slapping and punchless style?

..cranberry....i'm just quoting ali.....i hereby give you my permission to interpret it as you please....

Jaclem wrote:..cranberry....i'm just quoting ali.....i hereby give you my permission to interpret it as you please....

clam,

I am sure you know that slappy Willie Pastrano was one of the "greatest punchers of all time."

After all, didn't he knock out Harold Johnson to "win" the lightheavyweight title?

..grandberry......your discussion should be with ali...not with me...i repeat....it's his quote.

in an interview years after the johnson fight, pastrano said he was scared shitless when he heard he had been matched against johnson.....i suppose he got his courage back when he foundout all the had to do was run and go the distance and the "win" would be his...

Jaclem wrote:..grandberry......your discussion should be with ali...not with me...i repeat....it's his quote.

in an interview years after the johnson fight, pastrano said he was scared shitless when he heard he had been matched against johnson.....i suppose he got his courage back when he foundout all the had to do was run and go the distance and the "win" would be his...

Jaclem,

Same as Leonard-Hagler.

Same Angelo Dundee in the corner of the "winner."

Harold Johnson said he considered Maxim "very good."

....i always thnought that maxim was a superb boxer..and he tangled with the best. when i say he belongs at the top of the second tier of light heavies this isn't a put down...as he fought in the era of first tier light heavies as ezzard charles, archie moore and jimmy bivens and lloyd marshall. he split a pair with jersey joe walcott. fine boxer, deceptively strong and a great chin.

decagon is right about his weight, in the sense that he fought heavies when still really a light heavy. i will point out, though, that he was rated by ring magazine as a top ten heavy in years 1946, '47 and '48...before he won the light heavy title in '49. it wasn't until 1950 . when he held the light heavy title that he was also rated, again, in the top ten heavies..as high as number three.

Joey Maxim is the only fighter to beat Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Patterson.

Maxim was KO'd only ONCE in his career ( by Curtis Hatchetman Sheppard).

He fought Walcott 3 times (winning one), Charles in a 15-round heavyweight title fight, Archie Moore in three 15-round title fights, Ezzard Charles a total of 3 times.

Fighters who sparred with him said he could punch when he wanted to.
He won the title by stopping Freddie Mills.

..thanks for the correction on the number of walcott fights. as for charles, they fought five times. charles won them all, but the 1949 one in cincinnati was a really close one. i scored it a draw. maxim won the early rounds mostly with his left jab that kept connecting. charles was a slow starter sometimes,as he was in this one and had to come on later to eke out a decision.

maxim really cold-cocked freddie mills. my memory is vague on this, but i think maxim had injured his right arm....maybe before his boxing career began, so he learned to rely so heavily on his left jab. in an interview once he was asked if he had ever hurt his hands in a fight, and he honestly replied "no....i didn't hit that hard". this doesn't necessarily negate that he COULD hit hard.....but maybe he didn't because he seldom threw the right hand.

there is tape existing of his title defense against irish bob murphy, which i saw recently on classic boxing. it reaffirmed my memory of having seen it live years ago. murphy was a tough southpaw and he rocked maxim in the beginning, but then joey went on to give a boxing masterpiece, winning by a wide decision.

granberry wrote:Maxim was KO'd only ONCE in his career ( by Curtis Hatchetman Sheppard).

He fought Walcott 3 times (winning one), Charles in a 15-round heavyweight title fight, Archie Moore in three 15-round title fights, Ezzard Charles a total of 3 times.

Fighters who sparred with him said he could punch when he wanted to.
He won the title by stopping Freddie Mills.

Good fights with Archie.....Archie had his number.

Thanks for all that, Jaclem.

Freddy Archer (lightweight, welterweight who beat Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Fritzie Zivic) told me Maxim was a good puncher, but usually held back.

I get that impression from what I have seen of Maxim (Moore fights etc)

There IS one round in the Charles-Maxim 15 round title fight where Maxim goes all out for that one round throwing right hand after right hand, and seems to bother Charles.

Jaclem,

Also, Curtis Sheppard said Maxim was very strong physically.

That when Maxin wanted to tie you up in a clinch, there was nothing you could do about it.

..before we leave maxim/sheppard... a look at how they used to do it....sheppard caught maxim cold in thier first fight and kayoed him in the first round. that was on march 10, 1943. their rematch was on MARCH 31 OF THE SAME YEAR, which maxim won by decision. They were just two of the eight fights maxim had that year, before he became a military instructor.

maxim was always a busy fighter, but that was the norm for the time.

in the 15 round title fight with charles mentioned, maxim almost scored a knockdown over ezzard in that one...charles won clearly, but it was one of maxim's best and most aggressive performances, and nat flesicher wrote it up as an excellent heavywieght title fight, with lots of excellent boxing and good punching.

Jaclem wrote:..before we leave maxim/sheppard... a look at how they used to do it....sheppard caught maxim cold in thier first fight and kayoed him in the first round. that was on march 10, 1943. their rematch was on MARCH 31 OF THE SAME YEAR, which maxim won by decision. They were just two of the eight fights maxim had that year, before he became a military instructor.

maxim was always a busy fighter, but that was the norm for the time.

in the 15 round title fight with charles mentioned, maxim almost scored a knockdown over ezzard in that one...charles won clearly, but it was one of maxim's best and most aggressive performances, and nat flesicher wrote it up as an excellent heavywieght title fight, with lots of excellent boxing and good punching.

It was more than a little smelly that Doc Kearns was Maxim's manager,

and then ended up being Archie Moore's manager after Maxim lost the title to Moore.

..smelly indeed......obviously that was the only way archie was going to get a shot at the title. plus....okay....a rematch was the norm then when guy lost his title...but then maxim got a second shot...which was not the norm....especially as archie had shown his clear superiority over joey. being archie's manager was an easy paycheck. by that time nobody had to tell archie how to train, or publicize a fight or need advice in the corner.....archie had been an expert at that for years. the only reason he had to take on kearns was for kearns' connections.