BoxRec

woa man all 15" of it! what a freakish fist for a 6'1 man. liston was truelly a freak of nature. top 3 heavyweight of all time IMO.[/code]

look at how thick sonny listons fist is compared to ingo

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:look at how thick sonny listons fist is compared to ingo

Yeah, that's probably why it moved so slowly...

The Great John L wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:look at how thick sonny listons fist is compared to ingo

Yeah, that's probably why it moved slow slowly...

liston in his prime had terrific handspeed, he was not the slow mid 1960s muscle freak you all know him as.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:look at how thick sonny listons fist is compared to ingo

Yeah, that's probably why it moved so slowly...

liston in his prime had terrific handspeed, he was not the slow mid 1960s muscle freak you all know him as.

I've seen many of his fights and his handspeed was far from great. He was an excelelent fighter but I can't imagine how anyone could think he had "terrific handspeed", even at his best.

Sonny before the mid 60's was something borderline supernatural, but even then, his punches went as fast as a space shuttle launch.

Sorry.

HomicideHenry wrote:Sonny before the mid 60's was something borderline supernatural, but even then, his punches went as fast as a space shuttle launch.

Sorry.

Yes, he was a great fighter who was able to use good timing and subtle movement to compensate for rather "un-exceptional" handspeed.

Liston at his best wasn't incredibly fast of hand (way below the level of Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes etc.), but he definetely was not 'slow'.

If he was fighting in this era of Rahman, Valuev, Ruiz, Brewster, and Maskaev, I think speed would be cited as one of his attributes.

dempseyfire wrote:Liston at his best wasn't incredibly fast of hand (way below the level of Ali, Louis, Johnson, Holmes etc.), but he definetely was not 'slow'.

If he was fighting in this era of Rahman, Valuev, Ruiz, Brewster, and Maskaev, I think speed would be cited as one of his attributes.

Sonny Liston would knock out Rahman, Valuev, Ruiz, Brewster and Maskaev on the same night, one or two at a time

The Great John L wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

The Great John L wrote: Yeah, that's probably why it moved so slowly...

liston in his prime had terrific handspeed, he was not the slow mid 1960s muscle freak you all know him as.

I've seen many of his fights and his handspeed was far from great. He was an excelelent fighter but I can't imagine how anyone could think he had "terrific handspeed", even at his best.

then im guesssing you hadvnt seen liston vs bethea 1958, liston is a rock solid trim 204lb and he isnt a muscular freak in this fight, but a highly toned athlete who has solid speed to go along with his incredible physical strength and power. watch this fight for his handspeed

look i dont mean he has handspeed on the level of a holmes, walcott, ali, patterson, tyson........all im saying is he did not have "slow" handspeed.

then what kind of hand speed are you trying to compare him to Brock? Who out there can you compare Liston's speed with, to give the general fans a kind of idea as to the kind of hand speed you're saying Liston had.

He certainly didn't have Joe Louis' hand combination speed, didn't have as fast a jab as a Holmes/Ali/Patterson/Corbett/Johnson.

So what are you trying to prove?

Doug Jones' hands were twice as fast as Ali's.

Doug Jones' left left jab was twice as fast as Ali's. And it was accurate.
How many clean left jabs did Doug Jones land in the first round alone?

It's all there on the tape of the fight.

And while Jones is jabbing Ali's head off with his much faster and more accurate jab,

shill announcer Chris Shenkel jabbers that Clay has a fine jab.

LOL.

Jimmy Young's hands were three times as fast as Ali's.

He he, "Fistin' with Liston!"

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:look at how thick sonny listons fist is compared to ingo

Yeah, that's probably why it moved slow slowly...

liston in his prime had terrific handspeed, he was not the slow mid 1960s muscle freak you all know him as.

Yeah, right. Thanks for letting us know. Ever thought of becoming a boxing historian?

granberry wrote:Doug Jones' hands were twice as fast as Ali's.

Doug Jones' left left jab was twice as fast as Ali's. And it was accurate.
How many clean left jabs did Doug Jones land in the first round alone?

It's all there on the tape of the fight.

And while Jones is jabbing Ali's head off with his much faster and more accurate jab,

shill announcer Chris Shenkel jabbers that Clay has a fine jab.

LOL.

Jimmy Young's hands were three times as fast as Ali's.

That's right, Cranberry. You and I both know that Ali is one of the Illuminati and, as such, is naturally looked after by the other shape-shifting alien lizards who secretly rule the earth.

The thing is, mate, if you keep hinting at it, for example letting everyone know that Shenkel was one of our enslaved earthlings... Whoops, I've said too much.

Decagon wrote:

The Great John L wrote:I've seen many of his fights and his handspeed was far from great. He was an excelelent fighter but I can't imagine how anyone could think he had "terrific handspeed", even at his best.

Then explain how he could land a jab before most of his opponents even knew he was in range.

He can't explain.

granberry wrote:

Decagon wrote:

The Great John L wrote:I've seen many of his fights and his handspeed was far from great. He was an excelelent fighter but I can't imagine how anyone could think he had "terrific handspeed", even at his best.

Then explain how he could land a jab before most of his opponents even knew he was in range.

He can't explain.

Yeah, Liston was amazingly fast of both hand and foot , and a massive puncher as well. Chin of iron too.

Amazing how that fraud Ali gave him a complete and utter spanking and broke his heart.

Fixed, no doubt, eh Cranberry?

granberry wrote:

Decagon wrote:

The Great John L wrote:I've seen many of his fights and his handspeed was far from great. He was an excelelent fighter but I can't imagine how anyone could think he had "terrific handspeed", even at his best.

Then explain how he could land a jab before most of his opponents even knew he was in range.

He can't explain.

You really should stay to arguments u have a chance of winning. Oh that's right, there aren't any that you are capable of winning...

Decagon wrote:

The Great John L wrote:I've seen many of his fights and his handspeed was far from great. He was an excelelent fighter but I can't imagine how anyone could think he had "terrific handspeed", even at his best.

Then explain how he could land a jab before most of his opponents even knew he was in range.

Do I really have to explaing how a slower fighter is able to hit a faster fighter? Are you really that clueless about boxing?

The Great John L wrote:

granberry wrote:

Decagon wrote:Then explain how he could land a jab before most of his opponents even knew he was in range.

He can't explain.

You really should stay to arguments u have a chance of winning. Oh that's right, there aren't any that you are capable of winning...

Ignorance of Liston is a prerequisite for being a member of the Ali industry.

Repeat your Ali industry mantras, John L.

Collins2000 wrote:

granberry wrote:

Decagon wrote:Then explain how he could land a jab before most of his opponents even knew he was in range.

He can't explain.

Yeah, Liston was amazingly fast of both hand and foot , and a massive puncher as well. Chin of iron too.

Amazing how that fraud Ali gave him a complete and utter spanking and broke his heart.

Fixed, no doubt, eh Cranberry?

Or maybe it was because Liston was old and well past his prime Collins

dr_devious wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

granberry wrote:
He can't explain.

Yeah, Liston was amazingly fast of both hand and foot , and a massive puncher as well. Chin of iron too.

Amazing how that fraud Ali gave him a complete and utter spanking and broke his heart.

Fixed, no doubt, eh Cranberry?

Or maybe it was because Liston was old and well past his prime Collins

Of course that is a possibility, but he certainly didn't look that way going into the fight did he?

The bookies and tipsters of the time didn't think he was old and well past his prime either.

Unlike that fuckwit Cranberry though, I can recognise that my opinions are just that and accept other people may legitimately disagree.

The only 'fact' is that Ali gave him a complete and utter drubbing in the only place where it really matters, the ring.

Collins2000 wrote:

dr_devious wrote:

Collins2000 wrote: Yeah, Liston was amazingly fast of both hand and foot , and a massive puncher as well. Chin of iron too.

Amazing how that fraud Ali gave him a complete and utter spanking and broke his heart.

Fixed, no doubt, eh Cranberry?

Or maybe it was because Liston was old and well past his prime Collins

Of course that is a possibility, but he certainly didn't look that way going into the fight did he?

The bookies and tipsters of the time didn't think he was old and well past his prime either.

Unlike that fuckwit Cranberry though, I can recognise that my opinions are just that and accept other people may legitimately disagree.

The only 'fact' is that Ali gave him a complete and utter drubbing in the only place where it really matters, the ring.

Fuckwit Colliins doesn't know that the word was out all over the East Coast
for 4 to 5 days before the second Ali-Liston farce to bet on Liston to lose in the first round.

Collins has never had contact with a bookie in his life, but he knows ALL ABOUT what the bookies were doing on that particular fight back then.

granberry wrote:
Reak boxing fan Colliins doesn't know that the word was out all over the East Coast
for 4 to 5 days before the second Ali-Liston farce to bet on Liston to lose in the first round.

Collins has never had contact with a bookie in his life, but he knows ALL ABOUT what the bookies were doing on that particular fight back then.

If 'the word was out all over the east coast' then even someone of your limited intelligence ought to be able to furnish us with some evidence.

Actually, we were talking about the first fight. Did you not see that one? Ali completely dominated. A great display for someone who can actually appreciate boxing rather than a bitter stupid hater.

Collins2000 wrote:

granberry wrote:
Reak boxing fan Colliins doesn't know that the word was out all over the East Coast
for 4 to 5 days before the second Ali-Liston farce to bet on Liston to lose in the first round.

Collins has never had contact with a bookie in his life, but he knows ALL ABOUT what the bookies were doing on that particular fight back then.

If 'the word was out all over the east coast' then even someone of your limited intelligence ought to be able to furnish us with some evidence.

Actually, we were talking about the first fight. Did you not see that one? Ali completely dominated. A great display for someone who can actually appreciate boxing rather than a bitter stupid hater.

Collins' repeated posting of the tired talking points from the tiresome Ali industry demonstrates a "mentality" below the functioning level.

Collins stated positively that the "bookies" and "tipsters" all thought the Liston-Ali "fights" were on the level.

Prove it.

You can't.

The word was out for days before the second fake to bet on Liston to lose in the first round.