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Calzaghe knocks Kessler's Opposition
Posted: 02 Apr 2007, 15:07
by Autobarn
"He (Kessler) beat an average fighter last week and.. Beyer sold himself to the highest bidder."
The effing cheek after selecting Bika and Manfredo.
Calzaghe's had a good 7 years to get it on with Beyer, so why didn't he? If he had, it'd have been considered one of his 2 finest wins.
Also, I guess that's why Andrade was turned down as a potential match - because he was "average". Calzaghe doesn't protect himself so well, and he throws lots of little shots...my guess is Andrade would've hit Calzaghe a lot more than he hit Kessler, and I doubt Joe could rock Andrade back like he did Lacy - what with Joe's short arms and Andrade's enormous height...
Mundine is light years above anything Calzaghe fought. I'm in agreement with Pundit - it's looking more and more that the most important fight at 168 was Kessler-Mundine. Looking back at Kessler-Mundine and the trouble Mundine gave MK, and Mundine's current form, I have to say Mundine's an excellent fighter and a real threat to anyone in the 160-168 vicinity.
Anyhow, at least Calzaghe's saying he wants "Taylor and Kessler."
Posted: 02 Apr 2007, 17:01
by lvlarc
I've always thought Andrade was average, it's mainly his size that some were impressed by and now his toughness. His footwork was terrible and so was his amateur career. Beyer was a good win but it was clear as day that he cashed out, travelling to Denmark, first serious big punch landed and he'd had enough, although somehow he did manage to fracture Kessler's ribs. I still maintain that the Calzaghe-Lacy matchup was easily the best and biggest SMW fight in recent years. Two top champions on their game.
There was a big double header in NOTW yesterday, one about Calzaghe's sex ban before fights, the other about a Calzaghe-Kessler matchup....
Joe Calzaghe has a potential 30 million American TV audience next Saturday to springboard him to the biggest purse of his career. Giant broadcasters Home Box Office will show his clash with American Contender star Peter Manfredo Jnr live and then repeat it later the same day as they try to rev up the action for a major unification fight next July with Denmark's Viking Warrior Mikkel Kessler.
Calzaghe, 35 and Kessler, 28 are both unbeaten with a combined total of 81 fights and 60 stoppages. Calzaghe has held the WBO SMW title for nearly 10 years and faces his 20th defence in Manfredo.
Kessler impressively retained his WBA and WBC championships against Mexican-born American Librado Andrade. And that was beamed to the States for financial consumption by the HBO paymasters.
Kessler who has a British mother, attracted a crowd of 20,000 in Copenhagen. Calzaghe's live gate next weekend could hit 35,000 and that means promoter allegedly would be confident of attracting 50,000 to the Millennium Stadium to decide who is the top man. The fighters would argue over a purse split of over £3.5Mmillion.
Calzaghe, who'll earn five times more than Manfredo's £200,000, said:
"There are lots of fights out there for me. I have always rated Kessler as a very good fighter. He is one of the sort of quality contests that I'm after. There is a great platform for me with the American audience watching live and a big live gate. It's a massive opportunity and it's not only about winning but doing it in style. I want to show the world what I am all about, so this is not a normal fight - it's massive. I want to create history. I think Manfredo is a big enough fight for my 20th defence. If he walks the street a lot more will recognise him than Kessler. In fact, the interest in Cardiff is reflected by the fact that there have been people going around with Manfredo T-shirts! But he is a name and it's all about getting a big audience to watch and come to the fight. I am feeling the buzz already, it spurs me on. It has always been my dream to fight at the Millennium Stadium and it has worked out beautifully"
Sounds good.
Posted: 02 Apr 2007, 17:18
by Autobarn
Andrade's footwork looked hideous, one reason was because Kessler anticipated his punch, stepped outside it & countered it as he was leaning off balance. Quite masterful from Kessler...Kessler beat Beyer in a unification so I don't see how Calzaghe can knock Kessler for that - the one constant between those 2 fights is that Kessler has been spot on v top ten opponents.
Sad thing is the Yank powers that be want to see each guy in vs an American, rather than v each other. So, who gets RJJ and who gets Tarver?
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 04:09
by Autobarn
I wonder, is Calzaghe drawing the battle lines already for Kessler? He keeps on mentioning the guy...
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 04:21
by Max Molyneux
Andrade fought Otis Grant to earn his shot.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 04:22
by Lenny
Is Otis Grant worse than Manfredo, Bika, Ashira and Salem to name but 4?
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 04:45
by bugs
Not convinced Andrade is much better than Bika, big strong guys who can fight a spoiler and land hard hard punches. Why is Andrade better?
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 05:10
by Lenny
I don't know that Andrade is all that much better than Bika but he was mandatory, undefeated and a career supermiddle. And Kessler looked a hell of a lot better dealing with him than Calzaghe did Bika.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 05:12
by Goz
Final Fight wrote:I wonder, is Calzaghe drawing the battle lines already for Kessler? He keeps on mentioning the guy...
Hopefully if he is then Calzaghe intends to advance across those battle lines and not burrow down into his trench and hide - tossing out the odd insult-grenade - attempting to degrade Kesslers opposition but refusing to go over the top.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 05:24
by Maxime
Andrade, Beyer, Lucas & Mundine > Manfredo, Bika, Lacy & Ashira
/tread
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 05:38
by jamesmcdonnell
Fekking hell Joe's got a bleedin' nerve!
Andrade is certainly no worse than Manfredo, Bika or Evans bloody Ashira!
Kessler seems to be working his way through the available competition at least, rather than hiding behind shitty WBO mandatories.
What is encouraging is that Kessler's name is getting checked more and more by Calzaghe and Warren, perhaps the praise that Kessler is receiving has pricked Calzaghe and he fears he is being overtaken as the #1 in the division.
What worries me though, is that we had loads of chit chat previously about Ottke, but that fight never happened despite the photo calls with Calzaghe threatening a chicken.
The cynic in me fears that what we will get is a load of sabre rattling followed by the usual reasons why the fight couldn't happen due to the unreasonable demands made by the opponent, who wanted more than a bowl of warm soup and a padded seat in the changing room.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:28
by Autobarn
Max Molyneux wrote:Andrade fought Otis Grant to earn his shot.
Andrade is as good an opponent as Brewer and Mitchell. Also, he wasn't past it. I can imagine Calzaghe-Andrade. Andrade pulls out at the last minute under mysterious (money?) circumstance. Tocker Pudwill fills in to save the show.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:30
by jamesmcdonnell
Brewer and mitchell were former if slightly faded world champions. Andrade was an inexperienced contender, who was not proven world class.
However, that said, in terms of recent competition, Kessler is beating Joe to the punch.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:38
by Autobarn
bugs wrote:Not convinced Andrade is much better than Bika, big strong guys who can fight a spoiler and land hard hard punches. Why is Andrade better?
Andrade was genuine top 10 ranked in the major publications - Ring, Boxing Monthly etc. Bika had had 1 previous fight at 168 and was top 15 at best. Andrade is as tough as Bika. He also looks a fair bit bigger, hits way harder & in truth was made too look bad because Kessler is so good.
Ppl can say Andrade's poor, but it would be good to see a fighter like Jermain Taylor defuse a big puncher. Would be very interesting indeed to see Taylor back off and give away initiative to a bigger, stronger, harder hitting man.
In my view, Kessler and Calzaghe are equals. Kessler has dealt with a similar level of opposition in a far more accomplished manner. The lesser ppl that Joe made hard messy work of would have been beaten out of sight by Kessler. In fact he wouldn't have stooped that low.
But that's not to say Kessler would beat Calzaghe. A really quick fighter in reverse gear gave him competitive rounds and absolute fits - Mundine. Providing Calzaghe gets past that great jab and spearing right, he could poss outwork the Dane inside.
If JC took the fight, we'd all take him much more seriously and, say, if he wins over lacy & Kessler would make him the most decorated 168 champ ever.
Calzaghe-Kessler is an outstanding matchup. I can't think of an example of two EQUALS in the same division. It'd be an amazing fight and it's good to see Joe in a fight where he can't afford to piss about, showboat or underperform.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:39
by Max Molyneux
Final Fight wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Andrade fought Otis Grant to earn his shot.
Andrade is as good an opponent as Brewer and Mitchell. Also, he wasn't past it. I can imagine Calzaghe-Andrade. Andrade pulls out at the last minute under mysterious (money?) circumstance. Tocker Pudwill fills in to save the show.
Brewer and Mitchell actually won titles unlike Andrade. Past or not they probably had more than 2 wins In the amatuers too.
Nothings unimaginable when It's Calzaghe eh.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:41
by Autobarn
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Brewer and mitchell were former if slightly faded world champions. Andrade was an inexperienced contender, who was not proven world class.
However, that said, in terms of recent competition, Kessler is beating Joe to the punch.
yes, they were on the downside. Andrade was on the upside and had a KO1 win over R Grant (who extended Lacy) and won a WBC elim vs crafty Otis Grant. It would not be a stretch to say that Andrade would've knocked Brewer and Mitchell out.
A lot of ppl wouldn't be able to handle his size in the current top 10. A lot of ppl will be giving him a wide berth.
Like I say, Kessler shut him out because Kessler is a complete fighter. Doesn't mean other ppl can handle him with such assurance.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:42
by Max Molyneux
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,3-2007150199,00.html
The Sun can be full of shit but I do agree he will beat Kessler pretty easily although not Lacy like.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:43
by jamesmcdonnell
Hmm, I think you're dipping your toe into the waters of wishful thinking here. Mitchell and Brewer were proven world class fighters. Andrade has done nothing as yet to assert he is genuine world class, fringe contender yes, world class, not yet.
Brewer and Mitchell were a hell of a lot more experienced even if they were on the downside of their careers.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:44
by Autobarn
Max Molyneux wrote:Final Fight wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Andrade fought Otis Grant to earn his shot.
Andrade is as good an opponent as Brewer and Mitchell. Also, he wasn't past it. I can imagine Calzaghe-Andrade. Andrade pulls out at the last minute under mysterious (money?) circumstance. Tocker Pudwill fills in to save the show.
Brewer and Mitchell actually won titles unlike Andrade. Past or not they probably had more than 2 wins In the amatuers too.
Nothings unimaginable when It's Calzaghe eh.
Well, Kessler didn't LET him pick up a title. Brewer & Mitchell were backdoor route titlists who got outboxed by Ottke.
Fact is, Andrade was highly rated, a proper opponent, whom experts considered would extend, maybe even knock out Kessler, and considered a worthy opponent for a quality B.A.D. card.
Was Joe doing any of this in his 3rd year as champion?
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:44
by Autobarn
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm, I think you're dipping your toe into the waters of wishful thinking here. Mitchell and Brewer were proven world class fighters. Andrade has done nothing as yet to assert he is genuine world class, fringe contender yes, world class, not yet.
Brewer and Mitchell were a hell of a lot more experienced even if they were on the downside of their careers.
you ain't even seen Andrade fight.
Andrade was fresh, unbeaten, and top 10 rated. Fact - he was a proper world title defense, not a fake con opponent like Manfredo.
These comparions do Joe no favors. Joe needs to beat Kessler and it won't matter as much!
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:51
by Max Molyneux
Final Fight wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Final Fight wrote:Andrade is as good an opponent as Brewer and Mitchell. Also, he wasn't past it. I can imagine Calzaghe-Andrade. Andrade pulls out at the last minute under mysterious (money?) circumstance. Tocker Pudwill fills in to save the show.
Brewer and Mitchell actually won titles unlike Andrade. Past or not they probably had more than 2 wins In the amatuers too.
Nothings unimaginable when It's Calzaghe eh.
Well, Kessler didn't LET him pick up a title. Brewer & Mitchell were backdoor route titlists who got outboxed by Ottke.
Fact is, Andrade was highly rated, a proper opponent, whom experts considered would extend, maybe even knock out Kessler, and considered a worthy opponent for a quality B.A.D. card.
Was Joe doing any of this in his 3rd year as champion?
What experts were saying Andrade would knock Kessler out? Kessler was favoured to easily win and he did. Some shitty experts then If they gave Andrade a chance.
Kessler picked his title up like Brewer and Mitchell did, by beating a belt holder what do you mean by backdoor route?
Joe's opponents In his 3rd year were better/more proven than Andrade(Sheika, Starie and Woodhall who actually won a title.)
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 08:54
by Max Molyneux
Final Fight wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hmm, I think you're dipping your toe into the waters of wishful thinking here. Mitchell and Brewer were proven world class fighters. Andrade has done nothing as yet to assert he is genuine world class, fringe contender yes, world class, not yet.
Brewer and Mitchell were a hell of a lot more experienced even if they were on the downside of their careers.
you ain't even seen Andrade fight.
Andrade was fresh, unbeaten, and top 10 rated. Fact - he was a proper world title defense, not a fake con opponent like Manfredo.
These comparions do Joe no favors. Joe needs to beat Kessler and it won't matter as much!
Manfredo has actually beaten Super Middleweights too while Andrade beat a Middleweight to get his shot.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 09:04
by Autobarn
Kessler has done things the proper way - he's beaten 4 former/current titlists in a row, AND an unbeaten puncher who was his top contender. Joe's really wasted some years: Kessler gets on with things like a real pro. Joe needs to take Kessler and Mundine as superfights - and quick.
Kessler's a unified champ 2 or 3 yrs into his reign. Took Calzaghe nine bloody years to get proper recognition. Yes, the Yanks were ignorant but then again he'd pissed nearly all Brits off too.
For me, Andrade is easily the same level of Lacy, Brewer and Mitchell. Limited fighter with some real firepower.
Like I've said, Kessler is a better title holder than Calzaghe because he adapts to all styles and wins convincingly. Whereas Calzaghe fights down to some poor challengers...
Nonetheless, it's different when Joe takes on a top fighter, so that's what he has to do, to do his own abilities justice and undo a lot of the damage he's done to his rep and the rep of British boxing....After his bullshit Manfredo fight, Joe needs to fight Kessler or he'll be a joke
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 09:28
by Max Molyneux
Adapts to styles? The Kessler fights I've seen he's the same.
Even If Calzaghe has a bad night he still wins convincingly and when he has a good opponent he's even better.
Joe's beaten titlists and former champs It doesn't matter If he does them In a row.
Lucas was as shot as most of Joe's, Beyer was after a payday, Siaca was beaten by Mitchell who Joe took out In 2.
I thought we weren't supposed to overate fighters on their unbeaten records(Andrade)?
There opposition Is the same regardless of time.
Posted: 03 Apr 2007, 09:29
by lvlarc
Final Fight wrote:Kessler has done things the proper way - he's beaten 4 former/current titlists in a row, AND an unbeaten puncher who was his top contender. Joe's really wasted some years: Kessler gets on with things like a real pro. Joe needs to take Kessler and Mundine as superfights - and quick.
Kessler's a unified champ 2 or 3 yrs into his reign. Took Calzaghe nine bloody years to get proper recognition. Yes, the Yanks were ignorant but then again he'd pissed nearly all Brits off too.
For me, Andrade is easily the same level of Lacy, Brewer and Mitchell. Limited fighter with some real firepower.
Like I've said, Kessler is a better title holder than Calzaghe because he adapts to all styles and wins convincingly. Whereas Calzaghe fights down to some poor challengers...
Nonetheless, it's different when Joe takes on a top fighter, so that's what he has to do, to do his own abilities justice and undo a lot of the damage he's done to his rep and the rep of British boxing....After his bullshit Manfredo fight, Joe needs to fight Kessler or he'll be a joke
What a joke. Andrade has beaten no-one to deserve such praise. Lacy was a champion, he beat a few top 20 fighters and demolished Reid, Reid would look great on Andrade's resume.
Mitchell had beaten Siaca twice, stopped Green and most think he deserved a win over Ottke, either way it was close. Brewer was aged but had still proven himself world class, so had Lacy and Mitchell. All current or former champs.
Andrade 14-2 amatuer record, says it all really.
I'd love to know which experts predicted Andrade by KO.