BoxRec

first of let me say i do think highly of holmes, hes in my top 8 heavyweights of all time. i rexognize greatness when i see it, however i due feel many fans nowadays tend to let holmes off the hook for certain things.........

In 1983, after Page beat Snipes, Holmes was demanded to defend against Page or lose his title.

Berbick beat Page but lost his chance thru losing to Snipes. Since the Berbick loss Page had beaten Tillis, Larry Frazier and then Snipes in the WBC Title Shot Eliminator. Holmes had beaten Witherspoon on the same card and Dokes and Weaver had cancelled each other out. Page was, at that very time, the man. Holmes gave up a title he had defended umpteen times in order not to fulfill his mandatory defense vs Page. There are no if's and no but's. This is pure driven fact. He stated that the money vs the risk was not enough. All of this has nothing to do with Page - Witherspoon/Bey or anyone else, those fights were after the fact. Page at this time had earned his shot. Holmes had followed the WBC rules for year after year but now shirked them. I am not saying Page deserved a shot at Holmes anytime after the Witherspoon fight for Holmes vacated title.

You say what did Page do to deserve a shot.It is explained above. Well Larry's two fights after shirking Page were Scott Frank and Marvis Frazier. Page did a helluva lot more at this time to deserve a title shot than either of these two powderpuffs.




W.B.C. Says Holmes Must Fight Greg Page

The World Boxing Council president, Jose Sulaiman, said today he will revoke the heavyweight champion Larry Holmes's title unless Holmes agrees to defend it in a bout with Greg Page.

Earlier in the week, Holmes reached an agreement to fight Marvis Frazier, son of the former heavyweight champion Joe Frazier.

Holmes would earn $3.1 million and Frazier $1 million.

The W.B.C. ranks Page as the No.1 contender and therefore a mandatory opponent for its champion. Sulaiman said: ''Our rules establish that the champion who defies them will be stripped of his title, and this might happen to Holmes if he continues refusing the obligatory match.''

Sulaiman said the promoter Don King has a contract signed by the champion on March 3 that is registered with the W.B.C., and said its terms therefore must be respected.







btw shortly i will be posting the holmes interview where he stated he didnt want to fight page. gime a sec

I think Holmes could have made a deal to have done both the fights for a cool 10 million. Frazier/Page would have been a good deal I thinks. At least 8 million.

But I think, had Holmes been a better businessman, a Page/Coetzee deal would have made him multi-millions, 20 million or so, had he pursued it.

Larry knew Greg was coming for that behind, that why he gave up the throne.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
btw shortly i will be posting the holmes interview where he stated he didnt want to fight page. gime a sec

That's a long sec, Nick...

Collins2000 wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
btw shortly i will be posting the holmes interview where he stated he didnt want to fight page. gime a sec

That's a long sec, Nick...

ur right, for some reason i am having trouble finding it

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:
btw shortly i will be posting the holmes interview where he stated he didnt want to fight page. gime a sec

That's a long sec, Nick...

ur right, for some reason i am having trouble finding it

Hahahahahahahaha, I'd still love to see it.

In the meantime, could you entertain me with the latest musings of Ted Spoon?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:first of let me say i do think highly of holmes, hes in my top 8 heavyweights of all time. i rexognize greatness when i see it, however i due feel many fans nowadays tend to let holmes off the hook for certain things.........

In 1983, after Page beat Snipes, Holmes was demanded to defend against Page or lose his title.

Berbick beat Page but lost his chance thru losing to Snipes. Since the Berbick loss Page had beaten Tillis, Larry Frazier and then Snipes in the WBC Title Shot Eliminator. Holmes had beaten Witherspoon on the same card and Dokes and Weaver had cancelled each other out. Page was, at that very time, the man. Holmes gave up a title he had defended umpteen times in order not to fulfill his mandatory defense vs Page. There are no if's and no but's. This is pure driven fact. He stated that the money vs the risk was not enough. All of this has nothing to do with Page - Witherspoon/Bey or anyone else, those fights were after the fact. Page at this time had earned his shot. Holmes had followed the WBC rules for year after year but now shirked them. I am not saying Page deserved a shot at Holmes anytime after the Witherspoon fight for Holmes vacated title.

You say what did Page do to deserve a shot.It is explained above. Well Larry's two fights after shirking Page were Scott Frank and Marvis Frazier. Page did a helluva lot more at this time to deserve a title shot than either of these two powderpuffs.




W.B.C. Says Holmes Must Fight Greg Page

The World Boxing Council president, Jose Sulaiman, said today he will revoke the heavyweight champion Larry Holmes's title unless Holmes agrees to defend it in a bout with Greg Page.

Earlier in the week, Holmes reached an agreement to fight Marvis Frazier, son of the former heavyweight champion Joe Frazier.

Holmes would earn $3.1 million and Frazier $1 million.

The W.B.C. ranks Page as the No.1 contender and therefore a mandatory opponent for its champion. Sulaiman said: ''Our rules establish that the champion who defies them will be stripped of his title, and this might happen to Holmes if he continues refusing the obligatory match.''

Sulaiman said the promoter Don King has a contract signed by the champion on March 3 that is registered with the W.B.C., and said its terms therefore must be respected.







btw shortly i will be posting the holmes interview where he stated he didnt want to fight page. gime a sec

I think the problem was more that Holmes had tired of having DK steal his money and wanted to promote his own fights instead rather than ducking Page.
Besides Page lost most of his box office appeal and 'new Muhammad Ali' tag when he lost to Berbick.

Page was a hyped guy form the get go. Page came from the same city Ali did. Some felt Page would be a champion. The trouble with Page was he wasn’t a good boxer, and blew the talent he had by not working hard enough and staying in shape.

The Berbick fight was a set back, but in the end Page lost too many big fights in the 1980’s. Page was upset even upset by David Bey of all people. If Page was a better fighter, then Holmes would have skirted a worthy contender. The way I see it, Page was just another Don King product who quickly got a #1 ranking for wining 1 or 2 big fights.

Holmes was a good business man in a profession where promoters traditionally rob their clients dry. If not for Don King, perhaps Holmes would have fought Page in the 1980's. Giving up options on contract is for suckers.

I think Holmes famous comment about Don King hair hiding the horns came from the contract and proposed Page fight. Amazingly enough King is still at the top 25 years later. King can still get one of his guys, even one with limited talent like Ray Austin #1 ranking for a mandatory title defense.

Page was a good boxer.He just lost interest and didn't train.

Don King offered Holmes $2.55 million to fight the WBC #1 ranked Page. Holmes got $3.1 million for Marvis Frazier who wasn't ranked. Why would Holmes fight a #1 contender for less money than he got for an unranked one? The worst thing that happened was Holmes getting a $3.1 million offer to fight Marvis, it made the $2.55 million offer to fight Page look bad and it gave Holmes leverage in negotiating. If Holmes really did sign a contract to fight Page then he wanted to fight Page. To me the situation sounds like a dispute over money.

You pulled this from the archives! That's exactly what it was, better money for Holmes to fight Frazier and Frank. Holmes would have jabbed Page's face all night for a lopsided decision.

The tainted WBA champs couldn't get their heads right to make any defences of their baubles.

Holmes didn't need to duck anybody.... they ruled themselves out

Flump wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023, 08:29 You pulled this from the archives! That's exactly what it was, better money for Holmes to fight Frazier and Frank. Holmes would have jabbed Page's face all night for a lopsided decision.

The Larry Holmes from that year could have been upset by the right person. And a focused Page may have done the trick.

Nile4000 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2023, 13:56

Flump wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023, 08:29 You pulled this from the archives! That's exactly what it was, better money for Holmes to fight Frazier and Frank. Holmes would have jabbed Page's face all night for a lopsided decision.

The Larry Holmes from that year could have been upset by the right person. And a focused Page may have done the trick.

I know you love Page Nile, I'm a fan too. But getting floored twice by Quick Tillis, and labouring to wins over Larry Frazier and Snipes don't fill me with confidence that Page will upset by far the best fighter he will have been in with, even the 83' Holmes.

Flump wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:05

Nile4000 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2023, 13:56

Flump wrote: ↑26 Dec 2023, 08:29 You pulled this from the archives! That's exactly what it was, better money for Holmes to fight Frazier and Frank. Holmes would have jabbed Page's face all night for a lopsided decision.

The Larry Holmes from that year could have been upset by the right person. And a focused Page may have done the trick.

I know you love Page Nile, I'm a fan too. But getting floored twice by Quick Tillis, and labouring to wins over Larry Frazier and Snipes don't fill me with confidence that Page will upset by far the best fighter he will have been in with, even the 83' Holmes.

I respect that, Flump, and you could've been right. Page never developed like he should. But, I kind of feel, at that time, Page may have caught Larry unaware a bit.

Nile4000 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 12:49

Flump wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:05

Nile4000 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2023, 13:56

The Larry Holmes from that year could have been upset by the right person. And a focused Page may have done the trick.

I know you love Page Nile, I'm a fan too. But getting floored twice by Quick Tillis, and labouring to wins over Larry Frazier and Snipes don't fill me with confidence that Page will upset by far the best fighter he will have been in with, even the 83' Holmes.

I respect that, Flump, and you could've been right. Page never developed like he should. But, I kind of feel, at that time, Page may have caught Larry unaware a bit.

Well it's definitely a pity we never found out. Page certainly had the tools if he showed up.

Flump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 08:13

Nile4000 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 12:49

Flump wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:05

I know you love Page Nile, I'm a fan too. But getting floored twice by Quick Tillis, and labouring to wins over Larry Frazier and Snipes don't fill me with confidence that Page will upset by far the best fighter he will have been in with, even the 83' Holmes.

I respect that, Flump, and you could've been right. Page never developed like he should. But, I kind of feel, at that time, Page may have caught Larry unaware a bit.

Well it's definitely a pity we never found out. Page certainly had the tools if he showed up.

True, but looking back on it, when his old man passed, it was probably the beginning of the end.

Flump wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:05 I know you love Page Nile, I'm a fan too. But getting floored twice by Quick Tillis, and labouring to wins over Larry Frazier and Snipes don't fill me with confidence that Page will upset by far the best fighter he will have been in with, even the 83' Holmes.

He was down once versus Tillis, a guy who did have power. Holmes was down versus Snipes and Kevin Isaac -- so what? And Page 'Laboured' to a win over Snipes? He totally dominated Snipes.

Curiously, Tim Witherspoon in his live streams really seems to rate Greg Page's punch power, which did surprise me but I guess is corroborated by Page's KO figures. Ultimately Holmes knows boxing, saw Page from ringside multiple times and didn't want to fight him. Page's life unraveling from 84 onwards doesn't retroactively prove Holmes wrong.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 14:57

Flump wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:05 I know you love Page Nile, I'm a fan too. But getting floored twice by Quick Tillis, and labouring to wins over Larry Frazier and Snipes don't fill me with confidence that Page will upset by far the best fighter he will have been in with, even the 83' Holmes.

He was down once versus Tillis, a guy who did have power. Holmes was down versus Snipes and Kevin Isaac -- so what? And Page 'Laboured' to a win over Snipes? He totally dominated Snipes.

Curiously, Tim Witherspoon in his live streams really seems to rate Greg Page's punch power, which did surprise me but I guess is corroborated by Page's KO figures. Ultimately Holmes knows boxing, saw Page from ringside multiple times and didn't want to fight him. Page's life unraveling from 84 onwards doesn't retroactively prove Holmes wrong.

So you would have Greg Page beating Larry Holmes?

Nile4000 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 13:13

Flump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 08:13

Nile4000 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 12:49

I respect that, Flump, and you could've been right. Page never developed like he should. But, I kind of feel, at that time, Page may have caught Larry unaware a bit.

Well it's definitely a pity we never found out. Page certainly had the tools if he showed up.

True, but looking back on it, when his old man passed, it was probably the beginning of the end.

Yeah you're probably right Nile. Wasn't Don King at the funeral and draping himself over the coffin, even though he didn't know Page's father very well?

Flump wrote: ↑06 Jan 2024, 02:35

Billy Tully wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 14:57

Flump wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:05 I know you love Page Nile, I'm a fan too. But getting floored twice by Quick Tillis, and labouring to wins over Larry Frazier and Snipes don't fill me with confidence that Page will upset by far the best fighter he will have been in with, even the 83' Holmes.

He was down once versus Tillis, a guy who did have power. Holmes was down versus Snipes and Kevin Isaac -- so what? And Page 'Laboured' to a win over Snipes? He totally dominated Snipes.

Curiously, Tim Witherspoon in his live streams really seems to rate Greg Page's punch power, which did surprise me but I guess is corroborated by Page's KO figures. Ultimately Holmes knows boxing, saw Page from ringside multiple times and didn't want to fight him. Page's life unraveling from 84 onwards doesn't retroactively prove Holmes wrong.

So you would have Greg Page beating Larry Holmes?

Apparently Larry Holmes had Greg Page beating Larry Holmes and vacated his title for more easy fights.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑06 Jan 2024, 05:24

Flump wrote: ↑06 Jan 2024, 02:35

Billy Tully wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 14:57

He was down once versus Tillis, a guy who did have power. Holmes was down versus Snipes and Kevin Isaac -- so what? And Page 'Laboured' to a win over Snipes? He totally dominated Snipes.

Curiously, Tim Witherspoon in his live streams really seems to rate Greg Page's punch power, which did surprise me but I guess is corroborated by Page's KO figures. Ultimately Holmes knows boxing, saw Page from ringside multiple times and didn't want to fight him. Page's life unraveling from 84 onwards doesn't retroactively prove Holmes wrong.

So you would have Greg Page beating Larry Holmes?

Apparently Larry Holmes had Greg Page beating Larry Holmes and vacated his title for more easy fights.

And what do you think?

Flump wrote: ↑06 Jan 2024, 02:37

Nile4000 wrote: ↑05 Jan 2024, 13:13

Flump wrote: ↑04 Jan 2024, 08:13

Well it's definitely a pity we never found out. Page certainly had the tools if he showed up.

True, but looking back on it, when his old man passed, it was probably the beginning of the end.

Yeah you're probably right Nile. Wasn't Don King at the funeral and draping himself over the coffin, even though he didn't know Page's father very well?

That's true. Greg should have known better.

larry did duck greg... larry also never even considered rematches with any fighter that gave him a hard time... his fans make a lot of excuses for him...

way back in the days of message boards and chats... larry had a website... one that he frequented often... the fans there were ecstatic just to be actually talking to him... it turned into larry lording over a bunch of sycophants that agreed with everything he said...

during this time larry was actively campaigning for a fight with the comebacking george foreman... i happened to say that no disrespect intended... but i thought that george would knock him out... larry didn't take this very well... and neither did his fans... i was attacked pretty viciously... i maintained that regardless of what his lemmings thought... i held to my opinion... "ktfo"...

larry immediately changed his site to a pay to join site... subject to moderators approval... and denied me membership...

I had some interesting interactions with him on that site, i think it was ruined by trolling. I agree his fans were sycophantic, telling him he was ready to beat John Ruiz after the Butterbean fight. Madness.