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A different opinion on Mayweather - De La Hoya

Posted: 12 May 2007, 11:04
by Neri
This is an article by Liverpool Echo boxing writer Nick Peet. Some interesting quotes.
I was screaming at the box at 6am last Sunday morning when Floyd Mayweather Jnr’s was handed the split decision win over Oscar De La Hoya.

I had the ‘Golden Boy’ winning all but two of the first nine rounds in Las Vegas - Mayweather edging the first and fifth only - so despite Oscar running out of gas in the last three rounds my card read 115-113 De La Hoya.

Forget about all this ‘a world title becomes vacant prior to first bell rubbish’, for me a challenger should always take the belt from the champion.

Mayweather is a supreme talent, but his negative tactics last weekend almost scarred boxing for life.

Had Oscar not taken the fight to Floyd we would have had one of the most negative title fights in history - just as the entire world was watching.

For me Floyd never kept his side of the bargain - to put on a great show.

Oscar was the one forcing the pace of the fight. Oscar was the one lifting the crowd with his bursts and Oscar was the one throwing everything he had into the fight.

Can Mayweather say the same?

Naturally, talk now is of a rematch but I don’t think we need it.

For me Mayweather is a supremely gifted athlete with wonderful skills who will probably talk his way into the Boxing Hall of Fame.

But he will never stand alongside the names De La Hoya will.

The pro game is about so much more than talent. It’s about heart, taking on all comers and being prepared to leave your heart in the ring.]

De La Hoya’s career is littered with performances that inspire, but once again Pretty Boy Floyd flashes just enough of his talent to get the job done.
Does anyone actually agree with his views?

Posted: 12 May 2007, 11:08
by FinitoLopez
Nope. Hate Pretty Boy Floyd but I think he has accomplished a lot. With that said he still isn't an all time great until he fights Mosley, Hatton, and maybe a couple others (maybe Cotto). I just think that this guy is like everybody else. Trying to give the fight to a guy who didn't win because they like him more. A true fan can love a fighter but accept that they lost. Not make excuses or lie. Same goes for fighters.

Posted: 12 May 2007, 11:51
by stujones
I agree with the Author's view of the fight...... or at least I can see how he has come to that view. I think both guys won 3 rounds clean, so how you scored that remaining 6 is pretty subjective.

I don't agree with him regarding the standings of both guys. For me, both are on a pretty much equal pedistal now (with Floyd probably ahead BEFORE the fight).

Both a definate all time greats. Greatest of all time... nope, but all time greats nevertheless.

As I said before, even though Floyd won I think the manner of the win has probably done him more harm than Oscar in the all time great stats. This is because it was DLH's clear advantages in size and strength that were the reason why Floyd struggled. Indeed, it was Floyd who was hurting DLH. What was the shocking factor was the similar hand speed and how easy DLH find it to pin him (not necessarily land clean shots but still trap him). Before the fight I wouldn't have hesistated in going for Floyd in a mythical prime for prime 140 lbs match up.... now I'd probably go for DLH.

Posted: 12 May 2007, 16:38
by states
Forget about all this ‘a world title becomes vacant prior to first bell rubbish’

I hate this sort of attitude. Should Man United be given a one goal headstart against Chelsea in the F.A. Cup? Should England get a seven point lead in every game they play in this year's Rugby world Cup? Bollocks. A fight is a fight, and the best man wins. Why should previous achievements matter? If that was the case, fighters would barely lose a title. It wasn't a scintillating fight, it wasn't a classic back and forth battle. But Floyd won on the cards. Personally, I felt a draw may have been fair. But enough with this bullshit that a challenger has to do more to win. Does that happen in any other sport? (Apart from Sailing, I suppose).

Posted: 12 May 2007, 20:34
by Goz
Don't agree with the mindset that the title has to ripped away from the champ or the criticism of PBFs career but he scored the fight almost identically to me.

Re: A different opinion on Mayweather - De La Hoya

Posted: 12 May 2007, 23:32
by Sweet P
Neri wrote:This is an article by Liverpool Echo boxing writer Nick Peet. Some interesting quotes.
I was screaming at the box at 6am last Sunday morning when Floyd Mayweather Jnr’s was handed the split decision win over Oscar De La Hoya.

I had the ‘Golden Boy’ winning all but two of the first nine rounds in Las Vegas - Mayweather edging the first and fifth only - so despite Oscar running out of gas in the last three rounds my card read 115-113 De La Hoya.

Forget about all this ‘a world title becomes vacant prior to first bell rubbish’, for me a challenger should always take the belt from the champion.

Mayweather is a supreme talent, but his negative tactics last weekend almost scarred boxing for life.

Had Oscar not taken the fight to Floyd we would have had one of the most negative title fights in history - just as the entire world was watching.

For me Floyd never kept his side of the bargain - to put on a great show.

Oscar was the one forcing the pace of the fight. Oscar was the one lifting the crowd with his bursts and Oscar was the one throwing everything he had into the fight.

Can Mayweather say the same?

Naturally, talk now is of a rematch but I don’t think we need it.

For me Mayweather is a supremely gifted athlete with wonderful skills who will probably talk his way into the Boxing Hall of Fame.

But he will never stand alongside the names De La Hoya will.

The pro game is about so much more than talent. It’s about heart, taking on all comers and being prepared to leave your heart in the ring.]

De La Hoya’s career is littered with performances that inspire, but once again Pretty Boy Floyd flashes just enough of his talent to get the job done.
Does anyone actually agree with his views?
I scored it the same way as this guy, But i dont think it was a robbery as the fight was close and close fights can go either way.

Re: A different opinion on Mayweather - De La Hoya

Posted: 13 May 2007, 02:27
by Timmbo
Neri wrote: Had Oscar not taken the fight to Floyd we would have had one of the most negative title fights in history - just as the entire world was watching.For me Floyd never kept his side of the bargain - to put on a great show.
I definately agree with this paragraph. Although I would have preferred ODH to win,the decision could have gone either way and I wouldnt complain.
One thing for sure no one can say that Oscar did not stand and take his lumps & bumps(even got shook twice) but can the same be said of FM? :roll:

Posted: 13 May 2007, 04:32
by DG.
PBF won the fight fair and square.


He always finds a way to win and Oscar did not TRAP him, PBF kew Oscar would gas the more he threw, and threw Oscar did and he missed 90% of the time.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 04:53
by m1kee50
put it this way - would you be happy to watch boxing if every fighter was like PBF? or if every fighter fought like DLH?

yes a talent, yes a prick, yes an ATG. But dont ask me to be happy about him. why should i wish a nasty person success?

Posted: 13 May 2007, 06:24
by Autobarn
Going by the stereotype, I felt more Brits would have Floyd winning (on quality boxing) and more Americans would have Oscar winning (aggression). But there seems to be a decent mix of each.

Being that it was a megafight, able to do something for boxing's profile, I would have expected or maybe WANTED Floyd to give more. Oscar gave plenty but gassed - as ever - after round 8.

Sadly F's put himself in a new earning bracket and now anyone not names DLH is too small for him. I think there are some welters that can make life very nasty for him.

Cotto is a cruel puncher and exceptionally well schooled boxer who pressure could offset F's speed. Paul Williams is simply too big, too heavy handed and too southpaw for Floyd (who's been buzzed by ageing versions of Corley, Judah, Sharmbah). Clottey is a maniac chiselled out of granite, nicely balanced fighter who will not be put off in any way by F's light punching.

Margarito, I concede, is too amateurish and inaccurate to beat Mayweather. Mosley would probably do well, but be eased painlessly out of the fight - a quality Floyd is a master of.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 06:37
by m1kee50
Final Fight wrote:Going by the stereotype, I felt more Brits would have Floyd winning (on quality boxing) and more Americans would have Oscar winning (aggression). But there seems to be a decent mix of each.

Being that it was a megafight, able to do something for boxing's profile, I would have expected or maybe WANTED Floyd to give more. Oscar gave plenty but gassed - as ever - after round 8.

Sadly F's put himself in a new earning bracket and now anyone not names DLH is too small for him. I think there are some welters that can make life very nasty for him.

Cotto is a cruel puncher and exceptionally well schooled boxer who pressure could offset F's speed. Paul Williams is simply too big, too heavy handed and too southpaw for Floyd (who's been buzzed by ageing versions of Corley, Judah, Sharmbah). Clottey is a maniac chiselled out of granite, nicely balanced fighter who will not be put off in any way by F's light punching.

Margarito, I concede, is too amateurish and inaccurate to beat Mayweather. Mosley would probably do well, but be eased painlessly out of the fight - a quality Floyd is a master of.
possibly the best post on the subject i have yet read. thanks.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 07:28
by hitman_hatton1
it was a fair decision.

i've scored it twice now and both times i had it for floyd 7-5.

oscar got close.

but not close enuff.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 08:10
by KOJOE90
for me a challenger should always take the belt from the champion.
Complete and utter rubbish, what does this author want? Title holders to start the fight with a two point advantage? Fights are scored on a round by round basis, regardless who has the belt around their waist.

Sorry but the author really is just talking jibberish with regards to the above statement.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 08:21
by m1kee50
KOJOE90 wrote:
for me a challenger should always take the belt from the champion.
Complete and utter rubbish, what does this author want? Title holders to start the fight with a two point advantage? Fights are scored on a round by round basis, regardless who has the belt around their waist.

Sorry but the author really is just talking jibberish with regards to the above statement.
agree, just because you are champ does not mean you get all the close calls - which is i think what he was implying

Posted: 13 May 2007, 09:07
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
Final Fight wrote:Going by the stereotype, I felt more Brits would have Floyd winning (on quality boxing) and more Americans would have Oscar winning (aggression). But there seems to be a decent mix of each. .
THE British commentator (Watt) was biased for Delahoya and this affects the general British view.

Mayweather won 6 clear and 3 close on my card, Delahoya won 2 clear and 1 close

This writer is clearly a Sour Grapes Delahoya fan, Hoya lost while bringing his A Game.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 09:24
by Autobarn
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Final Fight wrote:Going by the stereotype, I felt more Brits would have Floyd winning (on quality boxing) and more Americans would have Oscar winning (aggression). But there seems to be a decent mix of each. .
THE British commentator (Watt) was biased for Delahoya and this affects the general British view.

Mayweather won 6 clear and 3 close on my card, Delahoya won 2 clear and 1 close

This writer is clearly a Sour Grapes Delahoya fan, Hoya lost while bringing his A Game.
you mean the Liverpool guy being a sour grapes dlh fan?

I just think some ppl are put off by Floyd while others do place a bit too much emphasis on moving forward.

The whole aggression business plays a big part attending a fight. I don't attend fights anymore as you can't really see the nuances. Sometimes it just feels like the aggressor is "in control." Had the pleasure of seeing 2 copies of Pyatt-Kalambay. A camcordered one on telephoto lens and the ITV. I scored it for the aggressive Pyatt on the camcorder and for the fine boxing Kalambay on the ITV, which was closer up.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 09:43
by Neri
Final Fight wrote:Going by the stereotype, I felt more Brits would have Floyd winning (on quality boxing) and more Americans would have Oscar winning (aggression). But there seems to be a decent mix of each.
I started a poll on the current scene to see the BoxRec members opinion. Over 100 people took part and it has interesting results. Although Floyd got the majority of votes, Oscar and the Draw got enough votes to raise more questions over the way we view and score a fight.

Here it is: http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62575

Posted: 13 May 2007, 09:51
by KOJOE90
Final Fight wrote:The whole aggression business plays a big part attending a fight. I don't attend fights anymore as you can't really see the nuances. Sometimes it just feels like the aggressor is "in control." Had the pleasure of seeing 2 copies of Pyatt-Kalambay. A camcordered one on telephoto lens and the ITV. I scored it for the aggressive Pyatt on the camcorder and for the fine boxing Kalambay on the ITV, which was closer up.
I was ringside for the first Benn v Malinga fight and felt Benn won clearly, then the next day I watched it again at home on video and felt it was a very close fight.

As for the above article it comes across and quite biased, it makes you feel the author lost a bet on De La Hoya. It's not the most balanced artical I have ever read.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 11:08
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
Final Fight wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Final Fight wrote:Going by the stereotype, I felt more Brits would have Floyd winning (on quality boxing) and more Americans would have Oscar winning (aggression). But there seems to be a decent mix of each. .
THE British commentator (Watt) was biased for Delahoya and this affects the general British view.

Mayweather won 6 clear and 3 close on my card, Delahoya won 2 clear and 1 close

This writer is clearly a Sour Grapes Delahoya fan, Hoya lost while bringing his A Game.
you mean the Liverpool guy being a sour grapes dlh fan?

I just think some ppl are put off by Floyd while others do place a bit too much emphasis on moving forward.

The whole aggression business plays a big part attending a fight. I don't attend fights anymore as you can't really see the nuances. Sometimes it just feels like the aggressor is "in control." Had the pleasure of seeing 2 copies of Pyatt-Kalambay. A camcordered one on telephoto lens and the ITV. I scored it for the aggressive Pyatt on the camcorder and for the fine boxing Kalambay on the ITV, which was closer up.
Yes wasn't talking about your good self Maussa with regards to the sour grapes

Mayweather at 154 and 147 is in a no win situation in some ways. Hes too small to trade and if he wins without making a war of it blood hungry fans complain about him. For me his defense is a joy to behold, watching Delahoya throw 6 punches and be made to miss them all.

At 130-135 and even 140 you would see far more combinations and some more risk

Posted: 13 May 2007, 12:13
by Autobarn
Problem for me is that Floyd didn't go for the likes of Tszyu/Hatton at 140 and just missed out on Cotto/Williams/Clottey/Margarito at 147.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 12:41
by Phenomenal-Nutrition
Final Fight wrote:Problem for me is that Floyd didn't go for the likes of Tszyu/Hatton at 140 and just missed out on Cotto/Williams/Clottey/Margarito at 147.
He did go for Tyszu but there were problems in negotiations - Tyszu chose Hatton who was the mandatory. Mayweather went for Hatton before (first choice in front of CorleY) and after the Tyszu fight (November 2005) and when Judah lost. Team Hatton said they wanted 3 fights before they talked about the fight and then demanded $12m in 2006.

Arrum wouldn't allow Cotto to fight Mayweather from 2005-2006. So to be fair Mayweather tried to make fights with Hatton, Tyszu, Cotto and Mosley. They just didn't come off.

Margarito/Clottey/Williams haven't achieved much so they wouldn't make big money or be seen as a big win if Mayweather beat them. Margarito was offered a shot at Mayweather when Judah lost too but he turned it down

Posted: 13 May 2007, 13:54
by Southpaw Stylist
Mayweather is a great technical fighter. He made DLH fight his fight. Points should be awarded for the type of ring generalship.

He landed more shots - FACT.

He was more accurate - FACT.

He made DLH fight his fight - FACT.

His defense was impeccable - FACT.

What more do you want? I think all of this Floyd hating stems from a severe dislike of him and his way of fighting rather than thinking he actually lost the fight. I can't believe that anyone thought DLH won the fight. Yes, he may have APPEARED to be landing, but obviously the judges SAW and HEARD differently. End of Story.

Posted: 13 May 2007, 14:05
by m1kee50
Southpaw Stylist wrote:Mayweather is a great technical fighter. He made DLH fight his fight. Points should be awarded for the type of ring generalship.

He landed more shots - FACT.

He was more accurate - FACT.

He made DLH fight his fight - FACT.

His defense was impeccable - FACT.

What more do you want? I think all of this Floyd hating stems from a severe dislike of him and his way of fighting rather than thinking he actually lost the fight. I can't believe that anyone thought DLH won the fight. Yes, he may have APPEARED to be landing, but obviously the judges SAW and HEARD differently. End of Story.
most people have said this, but the pro-PBF camp gleefully ignores this and keeps dredgin up arguments about the actual fight. no one is disputing the fight on here, beyond the fact that it could have gone either way. We have declared that its a person rather than a fighter thing, but it all gets ignored....

Posted: 13 May 2007, 14:58
by SticknMove
Southpaw Stylist wrote:Mayweather is a great technical fighter. He made DLH fight his fight. Points should be awarded for the type of ring generalship.

He landed more shots - FACT.

He was more accurate - FACT.

He made DLH fight his fight - FACT.

His defense was impeccable - FACT.

What more do you want? I think all of this Floyd hating stems from a severe dislike of him and his way of fighting rather than thinking he actually lost the fight. I can't believe that anyone thought DLH won the fight. Yes, he may have APPEARED to be landing, but obviously the judges SAW and HEARD differently. End of Story.
I can not help but think of Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau in one of the Pink Panther films when I read this post. It is the FACT in capital letters that does it.

No offence SS, Mayweather may well have deserved the verdict in a close fight. I had DLH by a point, in what was a difficult fight to score, at times, but his ability to hold his form all the way to the final bell may well have sealed it for him.

I did make a point of saying on the Current Forum shortly after the fight that PBF is a truly great defensive fighter to be considered with the same status as Whittaker, but never to be mentioned in the same breath as SRR. Now that is a FACT

Posted: 13 May 2007, 18:58
by stujones
So Mayweather PLANNED on a close decision? Yes, it was clear he predicted DLH would tire... but the first nine rounds I don't think DLH was fighting Mayweather's fight.... MOST cards had him up at that stage.

GBP show and everything - I'm sure Floyd and Roger planned to hardly thow any punches for the first nine rounds and then hope some of the judges have give close rounds to Floyd so he can pull away in the stretch.

If that was his tactics then he needs to fire Roger.

The FACT :wink: is DLH had better footwork than many have given him credit for in the past (including Floyd) and he was able to get close enough to him and throw enough punches (not land them all) to get Mayweather off his offensive game.... a bit like (infact far better than) Jose Luis Castillo did.

DLH tired and also changed his approach (the feint and jab tactics went out of the window) and Mayweather closed it up. Had DLH had enough about him to continue the way he fought the 8th round right the way through - we would have had a clear UD win. Cause Mayweather offensively couldn't do a thing.. Oh the punch stats might say otherwise, but how many Mayweather shots were meaningful in these rounds... Same reason why Lewis vs Holyfield was close by 5 of the 6 judges... same reason why Mayweather vs Castillo 1 was close by the experts and Mayweather vs Castillo 2 was close by the judges.