BoxRec

There has been much talk about the lack of quality of domestic Boxing recently..many differant theories have been put forward, various promoters, fighters being 'puussies' ect but can we put it down to just One reason?

When Nigel Benn won his first 'world' title he defeated Doug De Witt and of course the BBBC didnt recognise him as a champion..and why should they? Benn wasnt a champion, he backdoored his way to winning one...

What would have have happened in the 80's if the WBO had exsited? Would Lloyd Honeygan have gone to America to win the title against Don Curry?? No, that would be stupid, there must be a WBO champ there for the taking..
Would Colin Jones have fought McCrory and Curry?? No, he would become a WBO champ selling mucho tickets and KOing bums(presumably, no slight on warrior Jones)

Look at Nicky Cook...shouldnt he be fighting in an exciting eliminator which gets us all talking?? Instead hes fighting a non-descript...

I could go on but wont...

The WBO is the bane of British Boxing and until we do something about it being used as a vehicle for sub-standard champs we will continue to see poor quality fights, certainly not the great nights of yeasteryear..

Or is it already to late?

I think the WBO actually helped pave a great era of world class brits fighting one another. when you think benn beat barkley and dewitt in america in WBO title fights he had just as much claim as anyone else and actually mixed it up on both sides of the pond...eubank abused his position and basically fought anyone he wanted but hey, delivered in the british fights that mattered

they have had questionable rankings, sure, but some fighters do it the right way, some do what they want.

right now, i question the IBF, who strip elite champions for mediocre ones.

the fights legitimise the belt... atm some of the WBO holders are good champions/fighters

HEAVYWEIGHT SHANNON BRIGGS USA (OVER 190LBS)

JR. HEAVYWEIGHT ENZO MACCARINELLI GB (190LBS)

LT. HEAVYWEIGHT ZSOLT ERDEI HUN (175LBS)
SUP. MIDDLEWEIGHT JOE CALZAGHE (Sup Champ) GB (168LBS)

MIDDLEWEIGHT JERMAIN TAYLOR (Sup Champ) USA (160LBS)

JR. MIDDLEWEIGHT SERGIY DZINZIRUK UKR (154LBS)

WELTERWEIGHT ANTONIO MARGARITO MEX (147LBS)

JR. WELTERWEIGHT RICARDO TORRES COL (140LBS)
LIGHTWEIGHT JUAN DIAZ USA (135LBS)
JR. LIGHTWEIGHT JOAN GUZMAN DR (130 LBS)

FEATHERWEIGHT VACANT (126 LBS)

JR. FEATHERWEIGHT DANIEL PONCE DE LEON MEX (122 LBS)

BANTAMWEIGHT JHONNY GONZALEZ MEX (118 LBS)

JR. BANTAMWEIGHT FERNANDO MONTIEL MEX (115 LBS)

FLYWEIGHT OMAR NARVAEZ ARG (112 LBS)

JR. FLYWEIGHT HUGO CAZAREZ MEX (108 LBS)

MINI-FLYWEIGHT IVAN CALDERON (Sup Champ)

Surely the bane of boxing has to be the WBU!! - I dont have a problem with the WBO it has served its purpose for many.

I agree that there are far far too many 'world' titles, when there were only two or three you could judge better who was the best etc... but then we got the wbo and then the wbu etc etc and its just got worse and worse... with each body the sport becomes more diluted... why else can fighters like Calzaghe and Hatton notch up 20 odd 'world title' fights against mostly mediocre opposition??... the whole thing is a farce...

Exactly Silkov..I dont really count the WBU as a title and therefore it doesnt get that much stick from me..

I sometimes get the impression that some of us are 'small time Englanders'. Our promoters have a bit of money behind them and we are happy to dominate the WBO rankings..

Other countries have contempt for the newer titles and therefore steer clear of them..they go for the big names! We seem happy to get the WBO title then 'encourage' other champs to fight our lads..and while they are waiting they fight tosspats from around the world..

Its a bad state of affairs

Mmm, tough question.

Personally I accept the WBO as a geniune world championship these days, but do accept some of their rankings is dodgy and very much to bias for the brits. What an earth are the likes of Graham Earl, Michael Jennings and Gavin Rees been in mandatory positions.

However, I do agree with Autobarn's (VM's) quote that it did bring about some of the great domestic clashes of the 1990's... Fights that geniunally was "World class" and helped sell geniune world class matches and geniune world championship matches.

However, Eubank vs Benn opened the floodgates for the WBU/IBO/WBF to come here and for me that has been a disaster for British boxing. Promoters say that TV companies need a title fight to agree to screening a show.... well get a geniune title fight then, not create one.

As PR rightly said, in the early days of Benn's reign the BBBoC wouldn't accept the WBO - hence why Benn vs Barkley/Benn vs Dewitt was in the states. However, the old £££ came to the fore for Benn vs Eubank and all of a sudden the WBO was accepted. Since then the WBU/IBO etc have been here and thats been a DISASTER.

It gets stupid(and here the promoter has to take some blame) when we talk about the Nicky Cook fight..I have very little interest in it but good look to him, I mean that...

But look at some of the crap that comes out..if Nicky wins we could get Nicky Cook-Derry Matthews!!!! WTF is all that about?, no wonder my mates think Boxing is a bit of a joke!!

How can things be changed though or are we just going to have to like it or lump it!!

SKY made the first good move by banning WBU fights from their channel, should Warren do the same??

thepocketrocket wrote: SKY made the first good move by banning WBU fights from their channel, should Warren do the same??

Warren is the WBU, or as good as. If it wasn't for Warren, the WBU would have gone tits up years ago

Yep, thats true, I understand...but as part of his negotiating tactic with ITV...

Could you see Warren getting fights in America for the likes Jennings and showing the fights delayed the next morning on ITV, getting some proper fights, even if they dont win, their credibility will increase 10 fold!!

The only response from Warren(and im not a Warren basher as my previous post prove) appear to be 'lets dominate the WBO ranking to get some decent domestic fights at World title level'

To me thats going even further down the wrong route

at least the wbo has risen in prestige over the years, as has already been stated, its the WBU that should be in the firing line....

the wbo does have decent champions, calzaghe etc.... but again, as has already been mentioned, british fighters with no right to be challenging for elite honours, are suddenly up there at the top !!

~ MIKEE ~ wrote:the fights legitimise the belt... atm some of the WBO holders are good champions/fighters

The fights legitimize themselves, the belts are worthless except to fighters who don't sell tickets and need a belt to entice opponents into the ring.

Eubank got a lot of people watching the fight game, and that set high standards that keeps us fighting to get back to that shit.

But having said that, Eubank in the kind of frame of mind he was in pre-Benn and against Benn would have won another world title anyway, IMO.

But, at the end of the day, it was the WBO belt Eubank the boxer was carrying in front of 16 and 18 million viewers of a boxing programme.

Remember 5 or 10 years ago when barry mcnugget was defending the WBU titles because it allowed fighters to make more money? BM were dead against it and scathing in their editorials. rightly so.

I think the line that the belt sells a show is counter productive as well as mostly wrong. The way to get fight card attendances up is to build up a fight by selling the regional rivalry or local derby angle.

Having a relative novice fighting a nameless Belarussian for a version of a world belt that no-ones ever heard of just makes would-be fans disengage.

Yes the WBO badly diluted the scene, and has made a few british level fighters suddenly "world class" according to some.

Watson fought for a real world title and was beat up & stopped by McCallum.

Watson had already knocked out Benn and would later be ripped off of a decision over Eubank. A shopworn Eubank years later, numerous gift decisions over bums later, would push Joe Calzaghe to the limit.

We could go on...

Pocket Rocket is clueless in his rant.

Some of the best fighters over the past 15 years have held WBO titles. The WBO title has produced some great fights over the years too.

The WBC, IBF and WBA have all been involved in cases for dodgy dealing. The WBO haven't?

Ask Michael Watson if he thought it was worthless, he nearly died for it for fornicate sake.

I think its both helped and hindered European boxing

Many fighters have sat on the WBO, not being forced to fight mandatories and fight nobodies for their belt. Eubank, Calazage, Michalczweski are all guilty of this. They weren't forced to fight the best fighters because no mandatories are enforced (most of the time) and when they do have a mandatory its usually a euro club fighter.

It also held Naseem Hamed back but at least he beat the other belt holders. I wondered what Naseems career would have been like if he had fought for the WBC Super Bantam title and defended against Morales in 1995. That would have been a great fight and Hamed at his peak against Morales near his. Morales would come to brawl and Hamed would likely have taken other big fights coming off a win there.

Hattons WBU title was a complete waste of his prime fighting none top 10 fighters. BUT because of that he caught Tyszu at the right time and right place.

The positive side of the WBO is:

Its brought world title fights to Europe on our own turf. The US dominated the management of world title fights, which took the edge of our fighters on away ground, and meant they had to take what they were given. Now we have Hatton/Calazage/Eubank/Hamed/Harrison/ dictating fights on their own terms. Before they may have not been world champions and wouild have been fighting under tougher circumstances

boxingchat wrote:Pocket Rocket is clueless in his rant.

Some of the best fighters over the past 15 years have held WBO titles. The WBO title has produced some great fights over the years too.

The WBC, IBF and WBA have all been involved in cases for dodgy dealing. The WBO haven't?

Ask Michael Watson if he thought it was worthless, he nearly died for it for eff sake.

Very rarely is the WBO champ considered the number 1, yeah there have been a few but there have been plenty of champs are not up to scratch and they are used, especially by the Brits to dominate an organisation! All governing bodies are dodgy but at least you get SOME credibility, as we saw with Hatton-Branco, the WBC are far less influenced..

And its a cheap shot bringing Watson into it..it would be tragic if he got hurt skydiving..using his injuries to defend the WBO is pathetic

Chico held the WBO trinket
and Castillo held the WBC trinket

One of the better more remembered wars of late